Downtown Winston-Salem Developments

[twincity]

^ good point. i saw that new york styles is closing at 4th and Cherry. even though Winston is lacking in DT retail, im glad this store is leaving restaurant row. This opens up another prime property, near Twin City Quarter.

[ncbrian]

Which brings up the question on what sort of retail, non-food, would be viable downtown. Arts and Crafts work well on Trade St but what would entice people to come downtown to shop?

Getting back to restaurants again, there was an announcement early this year that a casual dining sort of resturant with a California feel would go into the vacated space at the southwest corner of Marshall and Fourth, the old United Way offices. Haven't heard anything about it since the announcement but then again would an additional casual dining resturant work downtown? Within a stone's thrown away you have Foothills, Camel Cafe, Cat's Corner, Bistro 420, Mellow Mushroom, the hotel cafe and Dudleys on the Park all serving similar foods. The Downtown Thai is a good alternative so what would work well there? Before it closed, Kabab's Indian cuisine seemed to draw a good steady crowd. Vegeterarin restuarant may have some success too. WS Prime is good high end steak place, could we do well with another? My preference which I have mentioned before is that downtown needs a seafood restaurant first and foremost.

[JerseyBoy]

It appears we may have some shoppes opening in the Nissen building downtown

Quizno's, Bruegger's Bagles, and Dilworth Coffee interested in Nissen Retail Space Journal Aritcle

While this would be more for the lunch crowd and I'm a bigger proponent of local business, it's great for downtown when national chains start to think it's a good area to have location in as well!

That's great that national chains are looking into downtown! I have always thought that to entice people to come to downtown and eat you need a national anchor there but sometimes that isn't always the case.

[suburban george3]

We still need to get a grocer, more mainline shopping, and (IMO) a movie theater established downtown. Add a couple of true nightclubs, and downtown would be hoppin'!

[DCMetroRaleigh]

True, Suburban. A downtown club district would really ignite a spark.

[yadkinv]

I'm ambivalent to this issue. I mean I prefer local spots in whatever city I'm in, but realize that for cities on the verge like W-S, national chains downtown is a must for high profile. The models of Portland, Oregon (larger than W-S), and Charleston, South Carolina; about the same size, but with a major tourist industry, should be a goal of W-S.

If W-S could emulate those two somehow? Old Salem needs to advance to the next plateau, and become a mjor desitination; even a theme park, and there needs to be a major museum(s), or better, some sort of hall of fame (what's not taken yet?).

[ncbrian]

That's great that national chains are looking into downtown! I have always thought that to entice people to come to downtown and eat you need a national anchor there but sometimes that isn't always the case.

Continuing this sub-thread about downtown coffe shops, Scott Sexton has a column out talking just about that in the Journal. The lede:

Christina Sin and Gena Knighten have been down this path before. Though they're nominally competitors because they both own coffee shops downtown, they have something in common.

They're small business owners trying to compete with larger chain stores.

When Starbucks Coffee Company opened a spanking new branch last year in the lobby of the Embassy Suites Hotel - less than a block from the Sin coffee shop and three from Knighten's Chelsee's - both women swallowed hard.

Making a living at $3 a shot isn't easy, even without a behemoth around the corner.

Edited July 31, 2006 by ncbrian

[sax184]

Old Salem needs to advance to the next plateau, and become a mjor desitination; even a theme park,

Oh God no. Theme parks are cheap facsimiles of things. Main Street, USA, at Disney World is a cheap cartoon of a real American main street. Old Salem is THE REAL THING!!! Faithfully restored property that adheres to the Secretary of the Interior's standards for historic preservation. There's no reason to treat it like Gatlinburg, TN.

Old Salem is already one of the top 2-3 tourist destinations in NC. We tamper with that success at our peril.

[ncbrian]

Oh God no. Theme parks are cheap facsimiles of things. Main Street, USA, at Disney World is a cheap cartoon of a real American main street. Old Salem is THE REAL THING!!! Faithfully restored property that adheres to the Secretary of the Interior's standards for historic preservation. There's no reason to treat it like Gatlinburg, TN.

Old Salem is already one of the top 2-3 tourist destinations in NC. We tamper with that success at our peril.

I agree; Old Salem is just about right where it should be. The re-enactors provide a nice semblance of what life was like then without veering into Williamsburg-type of place. Ironically enough this makes it more real than having scores of people walking around in some sort of fossilised outdoor museum. A hotel tower in this area is the last thing it needs though having a hotel in the nearby Gateway development would work as it would also be within walking distance of the NCSA.

[suburban george3]

I agree, Old Salem is a gem as it is and we don't need it to turn into Williamsburg. I would like more complimentary retail/restaurants in the area but with the Gateway project hopefully that will come to fruition.

In other downtown news, the journal had an article on a couple of condo projects downtown. The One Park Vista (Davis Bldg. site) and One Civic Plaza (Pepper Bldg. site.) WSJ article about downtown condo projects

[twincity]

update on downtown grocery store from Smitty...

There is a new Downtown Market from 9 a.m. to 2 p.m. each Saturday in the parking lot of The Werehouse and Krankies Coffee Bar at 211 E. Third St. The market is directed to the residents of downtown and surrounding areas and will feature local seasonal produce, prepared foods, crafts, plants and art.You can come by and grab lunch, buy groceries, and hang out with the old and new cast of characters who live in, or are supporters of, downtown. There will be music and refreshments and Krankies Coffee Bar will be open. The hope is that the market can help be a catalyst for a grocery store/co-op in downtown Winston. We may be looking a couple of years down the road on this effort.

story

http://www.dtgrocery.com/

[ncbrian]

I was wondering: are there any supermarkets on the east side of Hwy 52 in the downtown area. To the best of my knowledge, there are supermarkets in the Stratford/Miller St area, Peters Creek Parkway and up on University but I do not know anything about the section of downtown on the other side of 52.

[twincity]

east of 52 is East Winston. in that immediate area is a food lion and a save-a-lot but thats it.

[twincity]

new club coming to Burke Street

from smitty:

Dancing will be happening at a new place. Opening Tuesday is a new dance and lounge club called Sounds On Burke Street at 1001 Burke St. (formerly Fusion the Night Club). The proprietors are familiar with the nightclub scene downtown. Connie Graham and Heidi Andrew also own Speakeasy Jazz Club. They said they decided to open the club for various reasons, including the success of their Latin and Swing Dance Nights, which have outgrown the space at Speakeasy. Also, people have been complaining about the need for a downtown dance club. SOBS, with a 900-square-foot dance floor, will be the new home for Latin Night on Tuesdays and Swing Night on Thursdays (with dance class at 8 p.m.). There will be straight-up dance nights on Fridays and Saturdays, with DJs from around the city playing house and club music.

Ben and Jerrys is planning to open an icecream shop somewhere in winston and we can help decide where it will open. you can vote by going to this site. www.icecreaminwinstonsalem.com most people from another forum are voting for downtown.

Edited August 31, 2006 by twincity

[ncbrian]

Well for the Ben and Jerry's ice cream place, I did not vote for the downtown location. As much as I would want more retail downtown, these kind of places rely heavily on being a destination type of retail and given some of the barriers currently in place for viable downtown retail, it may be premature to do so for such a place downtown. As for the other locations and their viability, in a cross post on another board, I gave my views of the vote choices:

Stratford Road area - heavily built up road means it will be difficult to access from the road unless within a shopping center, Thruway centre already has Baskin Robbins and on the other side of the street, Blue Ridge ice cream is there.

Miller Street/Cloverdale Avenue - Mayberry's is an old standby with a decidely older clientile. Fair bit of commerical development that draws heavily on the hospital.

Hanes Mall Boulevard - heavily built up with quite a few ice cream establishments (Moola's, Carvel etc...).Not much open space available except at Little Shoppes development.

Downtown - no other retail draw in the area, residence levels currently low, large weekday worker population, limited street parking; may fit in with the Arts District culture but is there enough business?

Southeast Gateway - new development with large resident areas around it. large education section from Salem College, NCSA, WSSU. Tourists from Old Salem and development will draw people from the YMCA.

Robinhood Road/Peacehaven area - large commerical area with no known similar businesses. Residential areas abound.

University Parkway/Hanes Mill Road area - somewhat off the beaten track and unlikely to draw in people from other parts of the city unless located next to the new theatre.

Given all of that, my choice in the site selection would be the SouthEast gateway as there is quite a lot of business potential in the area with high foot traffic and it will gain the prestige of being located in a new upscale development.

[eddard]

most people are voting for downtown.

How do you know this?

[twincity]

my fault. that was bad wording. went back and edited post.

[suburban george3]

I voted for the SE Gateway as well. I would really like to see this side of the city get some more attention from retailers!

[eddard]

my fault. that was bad wording. went back and edited post.

Ahhh....I see. I wasn't doubting you. I just thought there might be a vote results page I was overlooking.

I voted for the Gateway as well. Seems like the best place for it.

Edited September 1, 2006 by eddard

[JerseyBoy]

But, mind you that they want to open this sometime in 2007 and the Gateway retail portion won't even be completed by then.

[yadkinv]

I voted for the Southeast Gateway (still a better name IMO than just Gateway) because, once again, the Southeast Gateway is in fact downtown, or will be soon. A B&J is perfect for the nexus of three (or four colleges), and tourists from Old Salem!

[ncbrian]

The old Towne Jeweller's store on 4th and and Cherry is becoming Towne Markets. From a posted sign on the door, I gather that it will be like a boutique type of store where different vendors have a portion of the floor space but there will be a central cash register for all of the sales. There will a display for an artist, an antique food dealer, a speciality food dealer, an arts & crafts store and perhaps a bit more later on.

It will be a nice addition but I wonder about its success as the facade of the store is not very inviting and this is the kind of store that will rely heavily on casual pedistrian traffic. You could walk right past it without knowing it existed. Let's hope that is taken in account on the renovation through the addition of a large street-level window display.

[twincity]

Hookah Bar coming to 4th...

Bon Appetit, a deli at Fourth and Liberty streets that serves Mediterranean food, is adding a hookah bar to its offerings, starting Thursday.

Hookahs are Middle Eastern water pipes used to smoke fruit-flavored tobacco.

Jamal Al-Najjar, the manager of the deli, said that Bon Appetit will extend its hours three days a week to offer the hookah bar.

Al-Najjar said he is applying for a beer and wine license, as he wants to provide entertainment, including belly dancers, on the weekend.

"Let's make more life in downtown," he said. "This type of entertainment, (we) don't have it in Winston-Salem."

http://journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pa...s=1037645507703

Edited September 16, 2006 by twincity

[eddard]

Jamal Al-Najjar, the manager of the deli, said that Bon Appetit will extend its hours three days a week to offer the hookah bar.

This sounds great. IMHO, a lot of the restaurants downtown could improve their business by expanding their hours. I live in West Salem and work north of town near the Stanleyville area. I get off work at 5:30 so I never get a chance to visit these places during the week. We have tried to go to Bon Appetit more than once on the weekend to find them closed.

[Forsyth]

How do you guys feel about a Mcdonald's down-town?