University City Projects/News

[Andyc545]

This thread is to talk about a changing area that has gone from farm lands to suburbia to hopefully a strong urban area: This is the area of NE and North Charlotte; including UNCC, University Research Park, and the Harris Blvd Corridor down to North Lake.

Until now, this area has been plagued by the Suburban Curse, anchored by the University of North Carolina at Charlotte, which has driven much of its growth. With the additions of the NE Blue Line Light Rail Extension, the North Line Commuter Line, which is about 5 miles from the NE Line down Harris Blvd, a successful CATs Bus System up here, and strong support for more urban and pedestrian friendly areas, I felt the time was now that this deserved its own thread. We are at just the beginning, but as the NE LRT and N Line Commuter continues going further along in its preliminary engineering research and construction, we will begin to see more density and more urbanized developments. The U. City area already has a unique mini-skyline and centralized location at the intersections of W.T.Harris Blvd and N. Tryon. I hope this thread can begin to talk about planned developments and over the next few years, there should be a strong expansion of developments that qualify as being "urban friendly", and should see a more connected and complimented unique area of Charlotte that is tied in with our center city urban core.

The North East Light Rail Blue Line Extension thread is here, which includes 5 stations in the immediate University City area:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/Charlott...l-L-t43281.html

The North Line Commuter Rail Line thread is here, which includes 1 commuter rail station in the immediate North Charlotte area:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/CATS-Nor...Rail-t5058.html

The UNC-Charlotte Thread and Master Plan:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/UNC-Char...ast-t13609.html

In addition to all of the projects taking place on campus, there is a 30,000+ seat Division 1 stadium beginning to be planned, a Centralized Student Union including restraunts, offices, etc., and a student enrollment that is expected to go as high as 40,000 students over the next 10/15 years.

The IKEA Project is not the most pedestrian friendly design, but with a NE Line Station close by, there is hope that future projects around here will become urban friendly and form a pedestrian connection between the City Blvd. station with the IKEA Project:

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/IKEA-Ann...tte-t34496.html

http://www.crescent-resources.com/retail/ikea/default.asp

University City:

The University City Master Plan:

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Planning/Area+Planning/Plans/University+City+Area+Plan.htm

http://ww.charmeck.org/Planning/Land%20Use...ture_Zoning.pdf

Recently, it was proposed for the area extended including the University Research Park to be absorbed as part of University City and its special tax district.

http://www.universitycitypartners.org/news...ails.aspx?ID=32

Ghazi's Grand Promenade Village Phase 3:

I haven't heard much about this in a while, but there is current land for development as a stage 3 to include mixed-use retail/restaurants, hotel, and currently rumored condo midrise-tower. The tower hasn't been talked about recently, but the land is still advertised for Phase 3.

Around the North Line Harris Blvd Commuter Line Station:

Griffith Lakes: Stage one includes a mixed-use development currently in the planning stages with rezoning that hopes to tie a natural setting with single family homes, townhomes, condos, mixed-use retail, restaurants and office space. This equates to 1,100 residential units, 30k sq. ft office, 110k sq ft retail, and a grocery anchor. Stage 2, which is in the proposed 1/2 mile radius of the North Line Station is planned TOD; including dense mixed use and condos/townhomes as well as hotel and convention space.

http://griffithrealestateservices.com/web/...4&Itemid=38

Unnamed Apt/Condo Tower: This is rezoning petition 2007-101 and is located at the SW Corner of Harris Blvd and Old Statesville Rd., adjacent to the North Line Commuter Rail Harris Blvd Station. Current plans for a midrise in the 7-10 story range of apartments or condos, or possibly both. Also calls for ground floor retail.

My hope is that we will see a better connectivity between uptown and University City and surrounding areas, as well as strive to be part of the smart growth plan and be a more pedestrian friendly, diverse, and dense urbanized area. Moderators, feel free to move this to the Coffee House if necessary, although I believe with the popularity of the NE Line Extension, North Commuter Line, and IKEA Project threads, that this area has and will have a lot more to talk about regarding it as a vital urban environment in the upcoming months and years.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Andyc545

[dubone]

My feelings on revitalizing University City depends on the university growing more urban and dense in a way that supports surrounding redevelopment.

Second, the city and NCDOT need to stop those ridiculous quasi-freeway projects all over the damned place. Why does every thoroughfare on a whole quadrant of the city need to have interchanges and driveway restrictions? They spend freeway-rates on those roads and end up without enough money to build a true street network. I see the city pushing well for at grade crossings, such as pushing the DOT to not build City Blvd as a quasi-freeway. They are also improving the secondary street connectivity like that planned in Belgrade (or is it Belgate?).

If you want to walk, just forget it. There are actually NO pedestrian options for crossing 85 north of Sugar Creek. That is abysmal. Who made that brilliant call? I suppose they expect that people will need to hitchhike if they don't have a car.

University City Partners needs to build up its authority. Its plans were not really used that heavily in the IKEA/Belgate development beyond some connectivity points, and neither the city nor UCP seemed to do much about it. They were drooling over getting to have the IKEA, but I suppose 20 years ago they were drooling over getting a GAP and a Sam's Club and that didn't turn out so great for them. IKEA could be a great thing, but if they screw up royally on the overall goals for the area's development, it will just turn into another example of what is wrong with the place.

All energy and proverbial eggs go to Tryon and Harris? It is like 'Hey, we're just like downtown, we have a street named Tryon, yippie!!!' or 'Harris Teeter is upscale, so a street after Mr. Harris will sure spiff up this place'.

Why couldn't the city leverage the new Crescent plans to incorporate light rail directly into it? Crescent could have stations attached to their office buildings and such, and CATS could have saved on some of the risks mentioned in the Blue Line thread about running it in the median (which is a risk, even if mitigated to a degree). Why does the universe seem to all implode around the Harris/Tryon Intersection?

No one seems to notice the irony of attracting a hip academic 'creative class'-type crowd to "University City". How do you know you're there? You'll take University City Boulevard, of course. It's almost like they think the U in UNCC is the unique and interesting part, rather than the NC and the C. I have a novel idea, if Miss Bonnie was the saint of the institute, why not Bonnie Blvd and let people discover the history for themselves or make a conversation about it. The mainstreet to the new university in Chapel Hill was named for the enlightened hero of the nation at the time, Benjamin Franklin. Why did UNCC get stuck with an address auto-generated by a NCDOT's genericization program? But hey, at least they pulled out all the stops on Harris Connector Road and University Loop.

The whole concept of University Research Park needs to be abandonned. It is a joke about itself that no one seems to get. Suburban office space for banks a few random other companies does not make it a research park, and if the University (really none of the millions of "Universities" that could be referring to) is not even involved, the joke just goes deaper. Oh, so Wachovia has a little data center there and an office in an old hard drive factory, okay, that screams 'Technology' and 'Research'. One thing that is not a misnomer about University Research Park is that it is a Park, in that most of the surface area is for parking. How else would you get there, since there aren't any sidewalks. There are busses, but that seems to be for all the H1B people from India that don't seem to mind walking on the shoulder and standing in the mud for the bus.

In summary, in the context of improving things there this is what is needed:

- Build sidewalks everywhere

- Mandate new side streets that connect everywhere

- Renaming of the ridiculous street and place names that scream mediocrity and inaccuracy

- Stop naming streets after businesses. IBM, Hewitt, IKEA, etc. I'm sure they'd have name a road McDonald's Road if they'd asked.

- Recognize that the place is a huge planning mistake and not allow Crescent to walk in and build crap on the largest and most focal land parcel left in the district.

- Zone the as much as possible, as soon as possible, with Transit-Oriented Development zoning that has very specific standards for urban design that is pedestrian friendly and supports the type of development that everyone seems to want for University City.

- No more big box stores, enough is enough.

[mh10809]

All energy and proverbial eggs go to Tryon and Harris? It is like 'Hey, we're just like downtown, we have a street named Tryon, yippie!!!' or 'Harris Teeter is upscale, so a street after Mr. Harris will sure spiff up this place'.

Why does the universe seem to all implode around the Harris/Tryon Intersection?

No one seems to notice the irony of attracting a hip academic 'creative class'-type crowd to "University City". How do you know you're there? You'll take University City Boulevard, of course. It's almost like they think the U in UNCC is the unique and interesting part, rather than the NC and the C. I have a novel idea, if Miss Bonnie was the saint of the institute, why not Bonnie Blvd and let people discover the history for themselves or make a conversation about it. The mainstreet to the new university in Chapel Hill was named for the enlightened hero of the nation at the time, Benjamin Franklin. Why did UNCC get stuck with an address auto-generated by a NCDOT's genericization program? But hey, at least they pulled out all the stops on Harris Connector Road and University Loop.

The whole concept of University Research Park needs to be abandonned. It is a joke about itself that no one seems to get. Suburban office space for banks a few random other companies does not make it a research park, and if the University (really none of the millions of "Universities" that could be referring to) is not even involved, the joke just goes deaper. Oh, so Wachovia has a little data center there and an office in an old hard drive factory, okay, that screams 'Technology' and 'Research'. One thing that is not a misnomer about University Research Park is that it is a Park, in that most of the surface area is for parking. How else would you get there, since there aren't any sidewalks. There are busses, but that seems to be for all the H1B people from India that don't seem to mind walking on the shoulder and standing in the mud for the bus.

Dubone you made my morning. Very funny. Good read and you hit the nail on the head with all of these issues. From someone who grew up and went to college outside of Charlotte, University City has always been a place that I have perceived to be a suburban detached area of the city proper. And I think that it will take a lot more than bringing light rail into the area to increase its connectivity. Furthermore UNCC seems detached from University City. It is kind of set back hidden and an entity of its own. Universities such as NCSU, UNC, AppState, and even UNCG have better connectivity with the surrounding neighborhoods, making them seem collegiate. Funky shops, bars, coffee shops, restaurants all catering to the students. When I started classes at UNCC for my masters I just got the vibe that all the students on campus commuted to get to class and then left the area. But you are right with all the 4-lane roads surrounding the university it basically has no-where to grow a pedestrian friendly student environment. Oh well at least they keep building and approving zoning permits for apartments in the area for them to live in. Can we rename it from University City to Apartment City?

[southslider]

Sure, there is some height already in U-City, but with the seas of parking and tower-in-the-park design, it's not too walkable from Tryon. There is little doubt that the stations can be any closer to the front doors of the key destinations. So then, the mission should be adding pedestrian-scaled infill or retrofitting existing layouts. Otherwise, transit-choice commuters won't make walk-based trips, and "Harris/Tryon (Ken Hoffman)" and "University City (JM Keynes)" won't be park-and-ride stations.

[Andyc545]

I know University City is far from an urbanized core; my intentions of this thread were to begin talking about projects in the described area that may be considered urban friendly or implementing designs that would be moving the area at least towards the right direction, not necessarily flame the area for what it is now. I tried to describe a few projects that were worth mentioning; urbanized areas that are in effect to the North Commuter Rail and the NE Light Rail extensions that are planned. Since we are in the early stages, as far as engineering, as the process moves towards being funded and then construction begins, we are going to see what should be more and more pedestrian friendly areas that implement design features such as TOD zoning and mixed-use areas as well as improvements to the streetscape that will help define this area as a more urbanized area. Having 2 lines, both the North and the NE Line crossing through this area, only 4-5 miles away from eachother, this area is prime for positive development based on its connectivity to center city. It seems like a long shot right now for this area to be a visioned urban center, but if the correct practices are implemented, that is CATs stepping up, University City Partners, University City and the City of Charlotte, and well as the developers that are eyeing key stations to make their product, we may see some positive changes. The time is now that things will start developing and being put to the drawing board, in relation to looking at how the South Line changed things through the construction process.

Dubone one thing that you mentioned bugs me about this area to death... Sidewalks. There are so many people along Harris Blvd that I see every morning; business people, commuters, students; that walk along the side of Harris in the thick grass on the side well cars are passing at 55 mph. There are a lot of people up here that want to walk to the store or their office or school that are limited because of sidewalks and more friendly pedestrian scape. We can only hope one day that this will all change. I am optimistic to think that both the light rail and commuter rail, of course if these both end up getting build, will be the stepping stone towards the renovations of these horrible roads.

Edited February 27, 2008 by Andyc545

[Spartan]

What is frustrating to me is that a University is THE ideal place to create a pedestrian-oriented environment. College students are much more inclined to walk places around campus, so its easy- at least in older campuses- to extend that into a city like setting. The University City Area Plan appears to address most of these issues. It seems to me that the problem will be corrected over time. NCDOT will want to widen 49 no doubt, but maybe their attitude will change.

But I fear it may happen much more slowly than we realize. The LRT opening up will help a lot, but City Council will have to follow through by not allowing crappy developments (like IKEA) to happen without taking on a more urban form.

Also, I didn't realize there was a University City Partners, but apparently there is and they are hoping to expand to include the University Research Park.

[dubone]

Sorry for setting the tone in a negative way yesterday. I do think there is some potential, but it must overcome some significant mistakes to get there. Belgate isn't a terrible project, but it is certainly not a great one either, and is very much continuing the Ballantyne like model rather than the something going with an IKEA, adjacent to light rail and near the UNCC. Look at the project going into the site of the previous Charlotte Coliseum. That is more worthy of being in an urban, transit-oriented zone, yet it isn't. It is purely the result of the developer, but it would be great if planning could come up with a way to codify what is good about that to get things moving. The site plan of Belgate looks pretty much like the typical office park setting. The buildings are aligned in a pattern not dissimilar from when you bump the table when you're playing monopoly and all the hotels scatter around.

The UCP plan and some of the plans that Ghazi is making will help significantly. As long at the light rail continues to be planned and built, then the area has great potential.

(Thank you for putting the thread together, I think what happens to this part of town will go a long way in determining what type of city Charlotte becomes long term.)

[AuLukey]

A few things need to change in the UCity area in order for the necessary changes in the types of developments we see pop up to take place. First, as was mentioned before, the campus needs to have more connectivity to the rest of the world. There are, as of now, only seven entrances to campus from the main infrastructure of the area. I say that the campus needs to sell/donate portions of its land along Jon Kirk and North Tryon, and add infrastructure to connect the campus to the neighborhoods and street system around it. Creating its own island is only going to further its problem. In the master plan, the plan to create a loop. Well, we all now how "beneficial" loops have been in this city... All they do is revert traffic rather than focusing on the main issue of connectivity. While the University's land is itself surrounded by four four-lane roads, you also have to remember that Harris Blvd is not a true barrier to the campus. There are massive wetlands spanning the vast majority of the southern portion of campus separating it from most of Harris Blvd and from CMC-University. That natural barrier is part of the planning dilemma for getting the NE line onto campus.

If the University frees up a lot of the land around the campus, a lot of development would be able to open up. Unfortunately, they have done this on rare occasions and the decisions have unfortunately been mostly for the worse for the area. They sold land to the developers of the Circuit City, Home Depot, and former Kmart across Harris Blvd from campus with the condition that they leave the tree barrier along Harris Blvd. That deal destroyed any lasting hope that Harris Blvd could ever be pedestrian friendly. Further "improvements" to Harris in that section has continued to reinforce that fate. The college also allowed Campus Edge as well as a handful of other fenced in, shut out apartment complexes to be built directly adjacent to campus. While these do serve to keep pedestrian traffic on campus up, they also are not part of a regular street grid further destroying the idea of a college environment.

In all honesty, if the University would sell their four land parcels at the corner of John Kirk and Mallard Creek Ch Rd, there could be a lot of potential in building a college type development a la Franklin St in Chapel Hill and King St in Boone. There would even be room for a connecting road to add even more development between JK and MCCRd. That, to me, is the land in the University area with the most potential. There could be ground floor retail with condos/apartments 4+ floors on top. There is no doubt that housing is always in demand adjacent to the campus, that part would be a no-brainer. Built that close to campus and next to four enormous apartment complexes and within a mile of another ten, the future light rail line, and the hypothetical stadium, that land is prime. If I had the money to pursue it, I wouldn't hesitate. I have only heard that the campus is planning on relocating the athletic fields there in the long term once there isn't land left inside their "box." I see that as easy to get around.

In defense of pedestrian traffic, I agree that sidewalks are a must. Harris Blvd and John Kirk are in desperate need of some better sidewalks. John Kirk is a very heavily used road for pedestrians and bikes. I don't know who is responsible for that road, but those improvements need to be top priority for the sake of safety. As for Harris, while I understand that it is technically against NCDOT policy to build adjacent sidewalks to certain roads, the speed limit should be dropped on Harris Blvd and improvements to the curbs made to allow for a more pedestrian environment.

As for there being a road named after Bonnie Cone, there already is. It is a tiny little pointless road at the intersection of Mary Alexander and Mallard Creek Ch Rd. But at least it exists.

Also, random question, but about how much longer are we looking to keep that rock quarry next to 485 between 29 and 49? I'm not sure of its history or the company's agreement with the city. I see that as another major roadblock tying up an entire block of Mallard Creek Ch Rd unless a developer doesn't mind paying a premium for land that rumbles on a daily basis.

I wish the University City Partners would grow some fuzzy dice and start looking at ways to push improvements through the bureaucracy and government in this area. If they would start forcing developers to build connectivity, as in, real connectivity to more than just one road, then they might start getting on the right track.

As for the definition of University City, I often wonder if there is a well laid out boundary to the area anywhere. I have heard descriptions of the area that include areas south into NoDa, up to Northlake, Concord Mills, and even almost out to Independence. I honestly think that the set idea for UCity is so vast that there is no way that UCP can actually concentrate on improvements to a center area. I believe that it should be considered a much more concentrated area like Southend, Uptown, and NoDa (for example.) Why must "University" encompass such a vast span of land while most other areas are relatively small in Charlotte?

I'm looking forward to the changes the NE line will bring. While many people just feel either feel a general distaste for UC, or they are indifferent, I believe that the changes being experienced from the South line will also be reflected in changes to land adjacent to the NE and N line.

[Andyc545]

As for the definition of University City, I often wonder if there is a well laid out boundary to the area anywhere. I have heard descriptions of the area that include areas south into NoDa, up to Northlake, Concord Mills, and even almost out to Independence. I honestly think that the set idea for UCity is so vast that there is no way that UCP can actually concentrate on improvements to a center area. I believe that it should be considered a much more concentrated area like Southend, Uptown, and NoDa (for example.) Why must "University" encompass such a vast span of land while most other areas are relatively small in Charlotte?

There is an official boundry for University City. It is as following, however recently it will be changing to go down to 85 and include the area of the research park, as it has been described previously in this post. University City has its own MSD and special tax district. This is also what University City Partners covers. University City Partners along with CATs will probally be the 2 biggest contributors for getting this area off to the right development standards, if UCP, as you stated, can grow some fuzzy dice. There plans and reports have been impressive and have included most if not all of the development standards that would be viewed as positive in urban development. At this point they have been active in neighborhood events and meetings, I think they just need a stronger foot at this point.

Edited February 28, 2008 by Andyc545

[Andyc545]

Since I included Northlake and N. Meck in this topic, I'll post this here...

http://www.charlotte.com/274/story/629448.html

Is this Northlake's first steps to making a pedestrian friendly, urbanized area? What do you all think of these ideas and proposals. I know what some will say- that Northlake is already doomed from the mall and lack of connectivity by foot, but thinking beyond, how do you all feel about the concept and is 200 acres too much land to do this in the efficient manner that it wants to (building upwards)?

[Rufus]

I don't know if this has been posted, but this link has probably the most important plan for the area.

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Planni...y+Area+Plan.htm

Though it is a lot to read and look at, I was pleased with the effort and direction the plan is going. I still don't like that the hospital and the BofA branch hold so much power in owning arguably some of the most important land in the area. From the looks of it, Belgate and Ikea are not in this plan but the new campus construction projects are. Personally I think Belgate needs to go back to the drawing board. It seems so unfair for the area to have one story retail around a massive big-box store. I know it is a stretch, but Atlanta's Atlantic Station and Ikea would be absolutely amazing. UCity Partners needs to get the ball rolling on this plan or else the area will be, IMO, doomed to suburban hell.

[Andyc545]

I don't know if this has been posted, but this link has probably the most important plan for the area.

http://www.charmeck.org/Departments/Planni...y+Area+Plan.htm

I believe I posted and discussed this in the initial thread.

[Rufus]

That is what I get for not checking every link. My apologies....

[ellifyno]

This seems like the best place to post this, even though this thread hasn't been particularly active. Lincoln Harris has submitted a rezoning petition for 24 acres at the intersection of Tryon and Mallard Creek Church. This property is just past Mallard Creek Church as you head towards Uptown on Tryon. In addition to being right behind the Mallard Creek Greenway, it's about a quarter-mile from the proposed Mallard Creek Church station on the Blue Line extension. The rezoning application states that the purpose of the zoning change is "to create a high quality transit oriented development."

This property was rezoned back in 2004 to allow the building of a retail and office development "in anticipation of future transit service." That plan was approved, even though a very big chunk of the site was surface parking and much of the retail appeared to be in the form of a big-box strip center (at one point, developers were in talks with JCPenney and Target). At that time, signs went up on the property actively seeking tenants. Signs also went up on the other side of Tryon seeking tenants for property to be developed there. However, nothing happened on either site for years.

In November, Bank of America purchased the site that Lincoln Harris is now looking to develop. There was speculation that they'd build a satellite offices, though nothing was actually confirmed by the bank. Around the same time, OrthoCarolina announced plans to develop a building on 3.5 acres of the site across Tryon. Site work there began a couple of months ago, with an expected completion date in the first quarter of next year.

The site plan for Lincoln Harris' rezoning request appears more promising than the one that was approved in 2004, which was proposed by another company. They're seeking to build up to 1 million square feet total, with most of that being office and medical space. They do have some retail/restaurant space proposed on the site, but that space is limited to 75,000 square feet. The 2004 rezoning had up to 200,000 square feet of retail, as well as 200,000 square feet of office space.

The development is expected to be built in phases. The first phase has an office tower placed pretty close to the street right at the intersection Mallard Creek Church and Tryon. On either side of this tower (going south on Tryon or west on Mallard Creek Church) are future development areas, which are slated to be surface parking during the first phase only. The proposed maximum height for the first phase is 200 feet, while the proposed maximum height for the next phase is 265 feet. It appears that a parking deck would have to be built as surface parking is phased out for future development. They've also proposed to add a second left turn from northbound Tryon to westbound Mallard Creek Church (which is desperately needed) and to signalize the intersection just past Tryon on Mallard Creek Church as you head west (which primarily exists right now to allow for U-turning traffic from the Exxon and left-turning traffic to/from the Highlands at Alexander Pointe apartment complex, but will serve as a full-movement intersection with the addition of this development).

EDIT: The proposed site plan is here, and the approved site plan from 2004 is here for anyone who's interested.

Edited April 7, 2009 by ellifyno

[Neo]

Is the medical office building currently being constructed on the other side of Tryon part of this or is it simply a coincidence that it too is medical?

[ellifyno]

Is the medical office building currently being constructed on the other side of Tryon part of this or is it simply a coincidence that it too is medical?

The site across Tryon is separate. That site is being developed for OrthoCarolina to move to, although having re-read my post that might not have been clear.

This site that Lincoln Harris is proposing to develop is requested to be zoned with "general and medical office uses, professional business uses, and support services," so it could include pretty much whatever (support services include restaurant, retail, childcare, etc.). I didn't read through everything in there, but this building may not be entirely dedicated to medical office use or it may even have none. Bank of America actually owns the land, but I have no idea if this building is something they're wanting built for their use.

That being said, it wouldn't surprise me at all if at least part of this development ends up being used for medical offices. The area around Mallard Creek Church seems to be a hotspot for that right now, although it does seem like there's still quite a few vacancies.

[AuLukey]

This is good news, the surface parking eventually giving way to more density gives me hope that the UCity area may actually head in the right direction.

I'm curious to see what the plans for the current Walmart are once the SuperWalmart opens up on N Tryon to replace it. It doesn't appear to be too far off from opening up. This will do wonders to relieve traffic from the "town center." I'm just hoping, most likely in vain, that they don't just fill the spot with another big box retailer. I just wish they had also relocated the Sam's Club along with it and got rid of the whole big box strip in University Place. With the advent of the next phase of Belgate on the horizon, I'm interested to see the transition the core of UCity will make to adjust.

It does make me happy to see that streetside developments are at long last being considered along N Tryon in UCQC.

Edited April 8, 2009 by aussie luke

[Spartan]

I'm assuming that this will be a streetside development in the same way that stuff in Ballantyne is streetside. It will be built adjacent to the street, but it will be oriented towards the parking lot. IMO this is density for density's sake, but I suppose its a step in the right direction.

[AuLukey]

Going along with the fact that the Walmart is moving out of University Place, the Wolf Camera that has been there for as long as I can remember is shutting its doors.

[InitialD]

A big questions I have about the Bank of America development at Mallard Creek Church & Tryon is that it will be where the Alexander slave cemetery is currently located. Do they have any plans on either preserving or removing the graves, or are they just going to pave over them?

[Windsurfer]

A big questions I have about the Bank of America development at Mallard Creek Church & Tryon is that it will be where the Alexander slave cemetery is currently located. Do they have any plans on either preserving or removing the graves, or are they just going to pave over them?

Looks like Crescent owns the land according to your link. Good luck saving it. Crescent wanted to build an electical substation on the land where Stonewall Jackson's widow's house was near Lowesville, NC. Voila, it was buldozed and cleared off with nary a sigh. I think there may be a historical marker there now.

[InitialD]

Looks like Crescent owns the land according to your link. Good luck saving it. Crescent wanted to build an electical substation on the land where Stonewall Jackson's widow's house was near Lowesville, NC. Voila, it was buldozed and cleared off with nary a sigh. I think there may be a historical marker there now.

I believe this was the land that Bank of America purchased for 8 million. Though I'm not sure of the exact location of the slave cemetery, it should be (from what I can tell) somewhere within the red area on this map of their Phase 1 site plan:

What, if any, laws come into play when somebody wants to build on top of a graveyard?

Edited April 23, 2009 by InitialD

[ellifyno]

A big questions I have about the Bank of America development at Mallard Creek Church & Tryon is that it will be where the Alexander slave cemetery is currently located. Do they have any plans on either preserving or removing the graves, or are they just going to pave over them?

Funny you should ask. I happened to be going through University City Partners' website about 15 minutes ago, when I came upon this link, which is a quiz regarding the area's history. One of the questions references the Alexander house located across Mallard Creek Church. It mentions that the slave cemetery sits on the property where Thornberry is located. Sure enough, I did some digging and found this link from the Charlotte-Mecklenburg Historic Landmarks Commission. If you scroll down to stop #15 and read the directions just above it, it confirms the cemetery is located on the Thornberry property.

Polaris shows that Thornberry bought the land from Spanos Corporation. A search on the register of deeds site shows that they bought it from Lydia Alexander McNeary in 1998. That deed shows the same tax parcel number as the website you had linked to. A further search of their pre-1995 records shows a transaction in 1990 between Lydia Alexander McNeary and Crescent Land & Timber (again with the same tax parcel number), which as Windsurfer stated is the property owner listed on the site. It's worth noting, however, the site also states "This report was written on June 5, 1989."

[InitialD]

Ah, so the cemetery is actually not located on the Bank of America lot, but inside the apartments just north of it. You can see the fenced in between the parking lots and the tennis court.

[Andyc545]

Ah, so the cemetery is actually not located on the Bank of America lot, but inside the apartments just north of it. You can see the fenced in between the parking lots and the tennis court.

Without looking at any laws, I thought it was illegal to disrupt any of the old slave graveyards. I can think of 2 old slave graveyards in a one mile vicinity from the proposed location at the corner of Mallard Creek Ch and N Tryon where they have had to fence off historical slave gravesites and build construction around them. One is really close at an apartment complex off of Mallard Creek Church Rd (I think it's Thornberry or something along those lines). This is the one you located Initial, which can be seen here and the other is actually in Ghazi's development at Harris and N Tryon next to Buffalo Wild Wings which can be seen here. They are very interesting grave sites if you ever get a chance to look at them. You can still see the writing, dates, and names on many of the graves and they date back to the 1800's if I remember correctly.They are fenced off though and the public is not allowed in them but fun to view from the fence.

Edited April 23, 2009 by Andyc545