University City Projects/News

[kermit]

I said it before and I'll say it again - I think people knock the U City area unfairly.  

 

Yes it has sprawl, yes it has some bad problems, but there seems to be almost a bandwagon mentality on this board to rip the area constantly in a way that I don't think matches reality.

 

Again, I recognize all the work the area has in front of it, but I see the area as having positive movement (if very slow at the moment) forward and not in reverse which seems to be something being hinted at or stated over and over in multiple threads.  

 

Frankly - I think the area will be the next big area once the LRT happens and that isn't an overnight thing - that something that is starting to happen now.

I really do appreciate your perspective on U City. Folks who live there have a much more complete view of the situation than those that do not. However, as someone who has worked in U City for more than a decade I have not seen a positive movement in the neighborhood (and that view is not from a bandwagon) -- but I am interested in hearing about the positive trends you see.

 

My experience with the area has been that the quality of neighborhood restaurants and shopping (Ikea excepted) has declined steadily over the decade. Crime was a major problem in the area a few years ago (but has since improved) and the built environment has become less inviting now that I have alternatives to sprawl closer to home.

• I once had five or six solid lunch options, now it feels like there is no food worth leaving my desk for (granted this is a highly personal perspective, you may disagree).
• Dinner options for clients are also limited now that University Place lost the Providence Cafe (Firewater is an awful substitute) and the remainder of the center has declined from what it was 5 years ago -- if I have to entertain I now have to schlep clients downtown.  
• I once frequented the U City Lowes and Target on my way home, but now I have much more accessible and attractive options intown.
• Some of the shopping remains invisible to me simply because getting there feels like more work than its worth (e.g. the center where the Ihop and Walgreens requires passing through multiple long stoplights). I generally avoid anything that requires passage through the Harris-Tryon intersection.
• Crime was a huge issue in the area 3-4 years ago.  The situation has improved since then but the reputation of U City as a dangerous place remains for many and current crime rates / reports suggest that the area is significantly more dangerous than intown neighborhoods.

 

While U City does have an appealing diversity of residents and the low costs of the area are certainly an amenity, I am very concerned about how the neighborhood will adapt to LRT given its current landscape. Since there is very little in the area which is walkable (distances are large, sidewalks are skinny (or non-existent), crosswalks are infrequent and crime is an issue after dark) I don’t see transit riders embracing the area. 25,000 UNCC students offer the area potential but campus has become an island which requires driving to get off campus – students may as well drive to NoDa or Southend once they are in their cars. While there is land available for some nice TOD (particularly around University Place), I have difficulty imagining developers embracing that opportunity with the image of crime and the availability of more attractive (e.g. less sprawlly) options elsewhere along the LRT.

 

I apologize for my pessimism. I do want to feel good about the area where I spend my days, but I have difficulty seeing past its current (and past) problems. I really would appreciate hearing about where the neighborhood is moving forward and about how I can more fully participate in the life of U City.

Edited December 8, 2012 by kermit

[Niner National]

I noticed that there is another strip mall going up next to the Ikea. I'm assuming this is where all the UCity big box stores will be relocating too (as referenced on the previous page). I can't even imagine how awful those old box centers will look after they lose their tenants.

 

It's very depressing to go back to UCity these days. It has, in my opinion, steadily declined since I was in college (2005-2009). It's a shame because the campus itself has gotten much much nicer than when I was there.

 

Everything is cheap and tacky and there are already way too many empty retail spaces that will likely only attract discount retailers.

 

I'm in UCity every week and I just don't see much potential for improvement, only potential for more decay. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Urbanity]

Thanks for the two replies to my thoughts.  Some of it clarified some thoughts and some of it bolstered my feelings that people knock an area off of supercial gauges (which I guess technically all do to all areas).

 

I would like you guys to use some of the things you wrote about University City based off your perceptions/visists and now use those same statements as a visitor to Charlotte in general.   How many times does this board get riled up when we here someone's take on Charlotte as a city with no real restaurants or shopping?  Or when someone calls the city (based off of their impression) as "cheap and tacky"?   

 

Usually we say they are partially right but also partially wrong and have to invest time in getting to know a city we all know better than the causal person.

 

Statements like not knowing where to take someone for dinner or nowhere you want to go to lunch are laughable to me for two reasons:  I think their ridiculous on a factually level, but also that's really a small minded way to judge the viability of a neighborhood.

 

Look - I would honestly prefer to live in Southend or Downtown myself, but that doesn't mean I find reasons to knock the area based off superficial criteria  

 

Things I judge an area by are basic living needs:  Do they have a population that continues to grow and find a place within the city that they want to live instead of moving to the suburbs outside the city limits?  Do they offer grocery, medical, clothing, and other retail/services in abundance?  Are there schools?  Are there recreational and entertainment options?  Is there access to public transportation and major roads?  Are there employment opportunities from blue collar to white collar?  

 

All of these things are a yes in the University City Area.  Again - is it high density like downtown?  No.  Is it up and coming in the sense of South end - no. Is it picturesque and quaint like Dilworth?  No.  

 

As for crime - I never felt unsafe in the area and I looked at the crime maps and it seems on par for most areas minus downtown and the established southern arc of the city.  Which raises another issue. Are perceptions driven by diversity of the racial and economic classes of the population?   I'm a white man, but I love living in an area where the majority of my neighbors are not white.  I have two Caribbean bakeries, two India/Southeast Asia produce stores within my hood and I think those kind of amenities are growing.  Frankly, I like that.  The majority of the restaurants and stores are not high-end, but that doesn't equate poor quality either in my mind.

 

Finally regarding dining and retail options - let's remember that at the core of the area, which is called University City, is in fact, a major University.  The retail and shopping amenities are focused on what is attractive to many of that captive audience.  U City will never be a South Park or Ballantyne as the core people who live, work and visit the area are not high income people.  But that is ok in my book.

 

Being from New York, and maybe it's something that doesn't fit in Charlotte, I don't compare neighborhoods in the same way.  I wouldn't judge Red Hook the same way I would judge the Harlem, or West Village being compared to Flushing Queens.  
 

I guess at the end of teh day my rant about the knocking of the University City area is because it never seems to be knocked for things that in my mind matter to the actual overall health of a neighborhood such as strong planning for mixed income, or strong planning for comprehensive pedestrian/bike/car/public transportation coexistence.  Instead it seems to be knocked for things based on an individual's taste such as types of stores in a strip mall or types of restaurants.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Urbanity

[southslider]

The real test for me will be how University Place responds to the JW Clay station.  There is a good opportunity for development to link the pond and the station with minimal re-investment.  But question is, will the owners / developers treat the new station like a front door or a nuisance.  If the shopping center at I-485/South Blvd. is any indication, I'd be worried.  But this station will be even closer to the shopping center and offers more immediate, infill potential.

[kermit]

Yes, my comments about the lack of restrauants which appeal to me in UC were personal and therefore superficial. However when my views mirror the views of a larger number of informed folks then these opinions become substantive -- when a group of poeple percieve that their are few acceptable options for food/shopping/entertainment then less money flows into the neighborhood. Just as you are judging the area based on "basic living needs" I am judging it based on the "basic working needs" (of a middle-aged professional). My views on UC food options are shared by the bulk of my colleagues, thus it is a macro-scale concern. I completly accept that the perspective of my colleagues and I may be a misperception, I am eager to hear about the places in UC that you enjoy, I want to enjoy the neighborhood where I spend my days more.

 

I don't agree that the issues of crime and sprawl are superficial concerns (or that these things might be the product of misinformation, a discomfort with diversity  or even racism). I have known five people who have been victims of crime in UC (two robberies, two home invasions, one stolen car) and I regularly get local crime reports at work. As I said before, these issues were at their worst in UC four years ago, and the crime situation has improved since, but the perception of danger in the area (particularly around campus) remains and (I know from multiple-discussions) retards entrepreneurial and residential investment in the area.

 

I did not mean any of my comments in this thread as a personal attack. I just wanted to share my experienced perspective and also the opinions of several hundred people who I interact with daily in UC. The evidence I have suggests that the neighborhood is in decline but I am totally open to changing that perspective as new evidence comes in. I am heavily invested in the neighhborhood so I _really_ want to hear about how UC is improving. Honestly I have become so disapointed with how the neighborhood has changed since I started working there that I have largely given up on spending time in it. If you can point me towards the things that are good about UC I will eagerly try them out with an open mind. (e.g. where are the bakeries and produce stores you mention?) 

[Urbanity]

I never made any statement that crime or sprawl are superficial issues.  As for crime I have two friends who were mugged in downtown and more than half a dozen people I know who have had break-ins or car break-in in the Southend through Ballantyne area so the ancedotal game can be played for quite a while.  Fact of the matter is though that the University City area is no worse than a lot of the city. 

 

I don't see it as a personal attack btw so not sure why you think I would, but I don't understand the blanket judging of a neighborhood or area of the city based on it's offering of fine dining options which is what it appears to me (and you yourself agree) that has been the nature of this to a degree.

 

I would like to reiterate that I think the U City area has a lot of work to do.  I also would add that it is not my neighborhood of choice, but that doesn't mean I write it off either.

Edited December 9, 2012 by Urbanity

[Niner National]

One thing I think will go a long way in improving the aesthetics of UCity is the demolition of Chateau Villa across from the front entrance of campus and the construction of Circle (or whatever the name will be). I like that Circle will blend in with the design of the front entrance.

 

The apartment complex going in at the corner of E. Mallard Creek Church and 49 also is a welcome change with its street frontage and hidden parking.

 

I just hope the parking deck going in at JW Clay includes a street level retail component.

 

My biggest fear for UCity is what happens to the shopping centers off of 49 when they lose Hobby Lobby, Office Dept, World Market (already gone), Marshalls, and the others. Most big box stores are already represented in UCity so I'm not sure it can absorb all those losses.

 

I'd love to see Costco, Whole Foods, and/or Publix, but not sure the area really meets the demographics for any of those three.

Edited December 10, 2012 by rworkman09

[Urbanity]

^ I agree with a lot of this.  

 

As for the shopping centers - there are two areas that are of most worry/opportunity for redevelopment:

 

The entire "Commons at Chancellor's Park" (UniversitY CIty /WT Harris) and the Old Walmart Side of the Shoppes at University Place (entire West side of JW Clay shopping from Doug Mayes to Village Shopping Center Dr).

 

In regards to the Commons - I think they don't have a sustainable, or at least strong enough pull anchor for the complex.  The three largest stores are the Home Depot, Big Lots and Marshalls.  The other large stores are the Part City, Value Center Furniture and Hobby Lobby.    With Hobby Lobby moving to the new Ikea Complex you lose one major pull.  The Home Depot is already competing with the Lowes across the street.   I also don't discount the damage things like IKEA, Target and Even Dollar stores have done to their business model as outside of hard core tools and lumber, most people I know get their household tools, cleaning supplies and (now with things like cabinetry and rugs - thanks to IKEA) elsewhere.   As far as the  Marshall's it already faces issues with the TJ Maxx, Ross Dress for Less in the University Shoppes area.   

An even more significant issue for the Commons is it's location as a shopping destination.  Frankly, it's awkward.   Look at it on the map and you'll see what I mean.  Sure they have an entrance on University City and one on North Tryon, but both hide the actual stores for the most part and the North Tryon Entrance requires a weird winding drive.

 

What I would love to see (and this is just a pipe dream) is this parcel to be re-imagined as more small business/business incubator area.  

 

Connect Hampton Church Drive to Shopping Center Drive (it ends within view of it now)  I would also like to see more road connections in that area, almost a village center sort of thrive (Extend  the road that runs behind the Hobby Lobby segment of shops to Hampton Church as well being one of them).    

 

This would do two things - be a step in the city's goal of building an innovation/incubator corridor from Downtown to UNC Charlotte and in practical terms remove a rather uninspired chunk of retail infrastructure/space inventory from the area which would help bolster the other ones and would also be bringing in more workers to the area.

Edited December 10, 2012 by Urbanity

[Prodev]

Marshalls is also moving with Hobby Lobby over to Belgate next to IKEA. Not sure of the future viability of the Commons center since the second generation type tenants like Hobby Lobby are leaving there.

[Urbanity]

^Wasn't aware of Marshall's which further adds an issue to the Commons sustainability.

[AuLukey]

Here's one big picture people aren't considering in this argument.  How do you define University?  I have had this conversation with many people and have had them mention Northlake, Sugar Creek, Eastland, & Eastway.  My personal definition of the area is the core campus and the surrounding mega blocks reaching upwards toward Mallard Creek, 485, Caldwell/Rocky River, and the 85/29 connector.

 

Just to further my point of different interpretations, I had my roommate, a grad student, draw a line of what he considered to be "University City."  His interpretation included parts of Reedy Creek Park, Grier Rd, and Graham Street.  The bigger issue of "University" is that the land area defined by these bounds is no less than four times the size of Southend, Uptown, Noda, etc if you actually pull up a map.  University, even when being stingy about the bounds, is one of the largest areas in the city.  How can you expect an area to gain an identity if it is having to cover an amount of land nearly equal to 3 Charlotte Douglas Internationals (which itself is at least two to three times the size of uptown.)

 

Because there are so many different views of the limits of University, it is hardly possible to get a true vision of the overall state of the area.  Yes, in some parts retail is dying, in others retail is blooming.  Education is still on the rise; even with the banking merger in place, the University Research Park has not let up; newer, "nicer" multifamily housing complexes have been opening all around; retail is moving, not dying. 

 

I personally see the move of big boxes away from future light rail stops as the best thing ever!  Yes! Let's move the sprawl AWAY from light rail and into designated areas like that surrounding IKEA.  This opens the door for complete redevelopment of the areas surrounding light rail.  With the absence of Best Buy, (old) Walmart, Marshall's, Hobby Lobby, the complexes that have room for potential are opening up at just the right time.  If nothing moves in, I'm sure developers will be chomping at the bits to jump on the LRT development bandwagon that has proven successful in Southend.

 

As for the earlier comparison of University Place to the shops around 485 and South Blvd, I don't see that as a striking comparison.  South Blvd's shopping center is 100% auto-oriented while the side of University Place nearest to the future light rail station is very pedestrian oriented and, gasp, mixed use already (albeit a little more spread out than most areas in Southend.)  That complex seems like it will benefit greatly from the advent of light rail to the area.

 

The original light rail line follows areas of south blvd that are already heavily developed.  University Proper still has large tracks of land that are untouched and underused.

 

Also, as for Publix not being able to survive in University, I can only agree for one reason.  That reason has nothing to do with demographics, but entirely to do with the fact that University already has three Harris Teeters within two miles of the campus.  And another two within four miles.  I was born and raised in Florida and can tell you that Publix is not so "elitest" like some might think.

 

On a side note to go along with retailers moving away from the heart of University.  Party City's location in University is moving out of their current home next to Marshalls and up onto an adjacent parcel to Northlake Mall as a big box style store.  Big Lots won't be moving as they are considered an anchor to the complex along with Home Depot and I know from a close friend that their store is still considered "too new" to be relocated.  So, in essence, that strip won't be completely dead, although I'm not jumping for joy about Big Lots sticking around.  The new Indian grocer stays busy, The old RJ Gators is becoming a new sushi restaurant (which will make five within a two block radius,) and the Target just remodeled, so I'd highly doubt they'll be moving anytime soon.

 

I have lived in the University area almost entirely for the last ten years.  I could move to "more desirable" areas of the city if I want to.  Looked at condos in uptown and southend at one point.  But something about the ease of access in University kept me around.  I've moved several times within the same area, but have never felt the desire to leave after originally moving here.  Yes, I drive a car wherever I go, but I love my car, so I'm okay with that.  However, I can walk around lakes and trails with my dogs.  I have practically any restaurant I care to go to within a five minute drive (thanks to easy access to Concord Mills.)  There is no matter of retail besides posh-south park visits that I can't get to quickly.  I can walk to a number of bars if I so choose.  I'm essentially across the street from a hospital.  I can walk to get my groceries with ease, or I can drive to a number of alternate grocers, again, within five minutes.  So while I do have to drive to get to a lot of destinations, the time I spend in my car is almost negligible due to the ease of access within University.  Those who would criticize traffic in university are also stupid enough to drive around during rush hour (and probably on the main roads,) so I take those opinions with hardly a grain of salt.  University gets a bad rep.  I have never once felt unsafe, even while walking.  It is further down Tryon around Eastway where that feeling of safety subsides.  So, by that measure, I can see why someone including that area in their view of University would have an overall unease about the neighborhood.  Is there crime in University? Of course.  Have I heard of anyone being shot uptown? Heavens no! Wait...

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Urbanity.  The area in general gets a bad reputation, but I feel that it is entirely a matter of public opinion and your own definition of what defines the area.  If we were to be fair and just include a single mile around the campus, I feel opinions would change.  But they never will.

Edited December 12, 2012 by AuLukey

[DEnd]

Also, as for Publix not being able to survive in University, I can only agree for one reason.  That reason has nothing to do with demographics, but entirely to do with the fact that University already has three Harris Teeters within two miles of the campus.  And another two within four miles.  I was born and raised in Florida and can tell you that Publix is not so "elitest" like some might think.

 

They have gone a lot more upscale in recent years.  Publix used to be on par with Food Lion, or Win-Dixie, and many of their stores still are, but I was supprised by how much they had changed since I was a kid visiting family.

[ah59396]

Easy access to Concord Mills?? What road are you taking that I don't know about!?

I lived in University for a year and if was enough. I didn't hate it, but it felt like suburbia mixed with a college town. I did like the large influx of Indian population which made it feel rather international, but beyond that I felt confined to my car and frankly terrified to ride my bike. I also run which was a bummer there, my only options typically being the greenway (which was great) or down tryon (which was awful). I spent many a night SPRINTING by Walmart and the strip clubs in the pitch dark, coughing out car fumes.

Again, didnt hate it, and maybe it does get unfair disdain. But it's also warranted in many ways. It has a long way to go, but there is potential. I'd like to see what it looks like in 2025.

[Niner National]

Here's one big picture people aren't considering in this argument.  How do you define University?  I have had this conversation with many people and have had them mention Northlake, Sugar Creek, Eastland, & Eastway.  My personal definition of the area is the core campus and the surrounding mega blocks reaching upwards toward Mallard Creek, 485, Caldwell/Rocky River, and the 85/29 connector.

 

Just to further my point of different interpretations, I had my roommate, a grad student, draw a line of what he considered to be "University City."  His interpretation included parts of Reedy Creek Park, Grier Rd, and Graham Street.  The bigger issue of "University" is that the land area defined by these bounds is no less than four times the size of Southend, Uptown, Noda, etc if you actually pull up a map.  University, even when being stingy about the bounds, is one of the largest areas in the city.  How can you expect an area to gain an identity if it is having to cover an amount of land nearly equal to 3 Charlotte Douglas Internationals (which itself is at least two to three times the size of uptown.)

 

Because there are so many different views of the limits of University, it is hardly possible to get a true vision of the overall state of the area.  Yes, in some parts retail is dying, in others retail is blooming.  Education is still on the rise; even with the banking merger in place, the University Research Park has not let up; newer, "nicer" multifamily housing complexes have been opening all around; retail is moving, not dying. 

 

I personally see the move of big boxes away from future light rail stops as the best thing ever!  Yes! Let's move the sprawl AWAY from light rail and into designated areas like that surrounding IKEA.  This opens the door for complete redevelopment of the areas surrounding light rail.  With the absence of Best Buy, (old) Walmart, Marshall's, Hobby Lobby, the complexes that have room for potential are opening up at just the right time.  If nothing moves in, I'm sure developers will be chomping at the bits to jump on the LRT development bandwagon that has proven successful in Southend.

 

There are light rail stops right in front of Belgate (where Ikea is). That is why the median there is like 100 feet wide. The goal is to add housing to the part of the development closer to 485, but they've largely pissed away a good opportunity to make the rest of that development more pedestrian friendly and also attractive. Strip malls can be made to look good, but they're not doing anything like that in the University area. I would have been relatively happy with something like Blakeney, but Belgate is a huge disgusting sea of parking lots a short walk from where there will be light rail stops.

 

I would agree that it is great these big box stores moving away were great if they weren't owned by their occupants. These businesses want to sell their assets, so you're looking at a few million for someone to buy the building and a few million more to have it demolished and removed. Then and only then can construction on something else begin. If it is housing, it would have to be very high density to offset the cost of acquiring and demolishing the current properties. There is no shortage of land in the suburbs around the university, so I can't imagine many developers willing to take on that additional cost when they can just go develop a fresh piece of land for a fraction of the cost.

[Urbanity]

There are light rail stops right in front of Belgate (where Ikea is). That is why the median there is like 100 feet wide. The goal is to add housing to the part of the development closer to 485, but they've largely pissed away a good opportunity to make the rest of that development more pedestrian friendly and also attractive. 

 

I think you are considerably jumping the gun on Belgate when you say they pissed away the opportunity as the a lot of what has been developed was in the original plans and what is still to be developed (including the pedestrian type strip) is still in the plans as well.  The thing though is that Belgate was never going to be an all village retail shopping destination to begin with.

 

One thing I wish everyone would keep in mind when talking about University City is that we are just coming out of a recession that put tons of areas and plans on hold some of the worst hit being retail oriented.  With retail being a major component of the University City area (and outside of South Park I can't think of another area of the city where retail is so integral) - they had some of the biggest hits to existing resources and planned developments.

 

The reality of the recession is not the University City's alone though I agree the effects of it are more recognizable.

Edit:  Found the Belgate site plan and thought linking it would be helpful.  http://www.crescentretail.com/belgate/siteplan.asp

Edited December 12, 2012 by Urbanity

[tozmervo]

^I think the point was that, while development hasn't entirely stopped in UC, what is being developed is just more strip malls. The UC Blvd Station has empty land within it's 1/4 mile radius, but from 1/4-3/4 miles you find just parking lots and massive intersections. Granted they are providing for pedestrians with sidewalks and medians, but it's still no where I'd want to walk. To go from one corner of Tryon/UC Blvd to the other corner is over 400 feet of walking in front of 13 lanes of suburban drivers (including wide angle right-turn only lanes, which are deathtraps for bikes and pedestrians).

 

I think there is tremendous potential for new development and redevelopment, but I just have no faith in the UC boosters to fight for the kind of high-density urban development we see in Center City. There's no precedent that leads me to believe it will happen there. I think UC Boosters are looking at places like Ballantyne for their models. 

[Urbanity]

^yeah I get that.  

 

I think that U CIty will always be the auto oriented area with pockets of pedestrian-friendly/encouraged activity (University Shoppes, UNC Charlotte, whatever the name of the development by WT Harris and Technology Drive) as I think the whole of Charlotte will be as well. 

 

In regards to U City, I see some additional and potentially significant density/pedestrian-friendly growth along the North Tryon corridor once the BLE is completed.  Not the least of the changes that will be coming to the area (specifically to N. Tryon) are changes to the sidewalks and intersections (which is a highlighted item in the Capital Investment Plan) that will encourage more density.  

 

This is what I usually think of  when I talk of the the potential of the area as it will not only add something new in some cases, but also potentially result is some tweaking of existing developments and further increase the area's desirability for people looking for a place to move to in Charlotte that is ethnically diverse, affordable, and, convenient. 

 

Maybe I am misreading some posts on this thread but I think that a lot of the statements regarding the area's decline, intimations of decline, or even questions about the viability of the U City come across to me as falsely based on those who don't understand/appreciate that this is - and will always be - a primarily auto-orientated area.   There also appears to be a lot of unrealistic comparisons (voiced or not) to South End/Downtown type areas which do get the majority of the "wow" type developments.  

 

My last expositional thought on the subject of U City (and Charlotte in general) and its viability/future is that not all cities, or even all areas of most cities, (particularly those in the Southeastern U.S.) can be evaluated by the same criteria/sensibility as you would of an established city which experienced much of its growth and initial lay-out prior to the automobile (such as the cities of the Northeast.)    Charlotte as a whole will never be a dense city in that way (at least in our lifetime).  Sure, we'll have pockets and sections like that but the majority of the city will develop in a morphed suburban/urban hybrid.  It's just the reality.   We can recognize this point when discussing the strengths, weaknesses, and potential of each area and neighborhood of Charlotte (in this case U CIty) or we can discuss Charlotte in a vacuum of urbanity that has little relation to reality of its actual existence, or that of its population.

 

Edited for clarity (I hope)

Edited December 12, 2012 by Urbanity

[thetrick]

Lets be frank U-City is a working class blue collar area, and that is why I love it.

 

It will never be a southend, or citycenter, and that's another reason I love it.

 

This is where the real multiculturalism is because it's where immigrants can actually afford to live!

 

I have lived in U-City for over 10 years, and I love it. It is by far they best bang for the buck in all of CLT.

[Urbanity]

I think you are considerably jumping the gun on Belgate when you say they pissed away the opportunity as the a lot of what has been developed was in the original plans and what is still to be developed (including the pedestrian type strip) is still in the plans as well.  The thing though is that Belgate was never going to be an all village retail shopping destination to begin with.

 

Well - apparently I was dead wrong in this statement.  I was unaware until this morning that Crescent sold Belgate to DDR.  In the Crescent site plan there is the shopping village strip on Ikea Blvd between sections C & D which according to their latest diagram had what appeared to be a number of smaller shops on either side of the road that went from Shopping Center Drive to the Ikea parking lot entrance.  

 

The DDR site plan seems to do away with that making two larger spaces on the C side and making one large space on the D side.  It also appears that the two C section stores (both of about 10K sqf) will have parking lot facing entrances versus the Ikea Blvd.  So yeah - I was dead wrong in my earlier statement.

 

On a related note - I can't believe how small the Old Navy store is going to be.  When you look at the space requirements for some of these stores (Old Navy, World Market, even the Marshalls) you really scratch your head that we can't build similar size (individual) spaces in Downtown for retail in the City Center.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Urbanity

[thetrick]

On a related note - I can't believe how small the Old Navy store is going to be.  When you look at the space requirements for some of these stores (Old Navy, World Market, even the Marshalls) you really scratch your head that we can't build similar size (individual) spaces in Downtown for retail in the City Center.

 

My guess is that the small store sizes are the result of the general decline in brick and mortar retail. It's all about how much money you make per square foot of store space, and if this is the density they need in U-City I imagine they can't make ANY money in an expensive area like downtown. 

 

Retail is dying a slow death, and before long will only be showrooms....just ask Best Buy.

[Urbanity]

Can we change this thread title to University City Projects or University City News?

 

In that vein - Nona's bakery will be moving to the Worthington Complex off of WT Harris.  Seem to be expanding to 100,000 sq

Edited January 3, 2013 by Urbanity

[Urbanity]

Crescent has begun demo on existing apartment complex where Circle University will rise.

 

P.S. I repeat my request to change this thread title to University City Projects or University City News

[Niner National]

Excellent. I drove by there a few days ago and they had not yet started demo. Was wondering when that would start.

 

That will make 49 look a lot better. I really wish the city and the school would partner to make some pedestrian improvements from the WT Harris Intersection up to the John Kirk Intersection. Better streetlights (like those on campus) and sidewalks on both sides of the road would really be nice. Tryon Street on the back side of campus could really benefit from more lighting as well. When I lived in Ashford Green I would occasionally walk up to the Shoppes at University Place, but I didn't feel super comfortable doing so at night because it was so dark.

[Urbanity]

Excellent. I drove by there a few days ago and they had not yet started demo. Was wondering when that would start.

 

That will make 49 look a lot better. I really wish the city and the school would partner to make some pedestrian improvements from the WT Harris Intersection up to the John Kirk Intersection. Better streetlights (like those on campus) and sidewalks on both sides of the road would really be nice. Tryon Street on the back side of campus could really benefit from more lighting as well. When I lived in Ashford Green I would occasionally walk up to the Shoppes at University Place, but I didn't feel super comfortable doing so at night because it was so dark.

Apparently there are plans for a sidewalk on the University side of University City Blvd.   It would actually connect with the two very mini sidewalks the University made in front of the gates (not close to the road, but close to the Dickson gate structures.   On a related note, I know there are plans for a stoplight at the Cameron Blvd entrance and Univ City Blvd as well.   One would hope that would all tie in with sidewalks at the same time.

As for North Tryon side - I know exactly what you mean as far as CRI entrance going North.   I am guessing that the city isn't going to do anything until BLE construction as particularly on the N. Tryon side accross from the University - there are significant property easements being done (at least 45 feet on Asheford Green for example) that will likely be the new sidewalks, lighting etc.

 

On the same note of N. Tryon, I really hope that they put in cross walks at WT Harris and N. Tryon.  It is crazy to have sidewalks leading up to that intersection with no cross signal or cross walks.

[Urbanity]

Thought this was kinda cool: News14 report:  IKEA installing 4,000 solar panels on its roof.

 

In sort of related news - I took a walk to the super Walmart last week and they cleared out most of the trees between the Walmart complex to the Ikea Complex and from North Tryon Street it does look like one ginormous complex.   I already know what the board's reaction will be about it and I agree - it's ugly as hell.

 

I was struck though by the thought that when all the other stores are built and operational in the IKEA complex (I'm talking parcels not yet under construction) it will literally be a huge mall (without the indoor component) from North Tryon to I-85 bounded by University City Blvd and the IKEA Blvd extension to McCullogh Dr.  What really struck me is that it going by land size alone - if you roughly measure it in that area - it appears to be close to the size of Concord Mills with parking lots.