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Rosengarten Park


dmccall

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I read the website up and down the other day and it seems that the City has caught on to Cityspace's slumlord ways and have issued an ultimatum on many of the houses that are still standing: renovate within 6 months or they get razed. This would be very unfortunate. I think the process has begun (and possibly passed) for designating this area as historic, hence the new development plan to renovate the historic homes instead of tearing them down. I'm sure this is nowhere near Cityspace's original plan, since it seems the profit margin will be significantly lower.

The houses they have listed on the site are for post-renovation, and I'm not sure if they have begun on any of them yet. I did notice there is a listing on the MLS for one of the houses on S. Saunders as-is, but with the stipulation that it must be renovated within 6 months of purchase. So I'm guessing Cityspace realized they are not going to be able to finance all of the renovations, plus the infill homes on the lots that are already vacant, so they are trying to sell the properties off to investors to foot the renovation bill. However, I think I remember reading somewhere that there were also provisions so that these houses could not be "flipped", or something to that effect.

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What a wonderful project! The web site is impressive. These folks really seem to appreciate the charming character of that little neighborhood, and want to restore it to historic standards. I hope the city gives them time to do it. It would be a shame to tear it all down.

I wouldn't call City Space slumlords. They did not divide their old houses into apartments; they bought old houses that had been divided into apartments many years earlier. Many were purchased from Shrader Properties, a sort of slumlord who mostly rented to hippies, many of whom were (still are) friends of mine. The hippies reviled Shrader, but where would they have lived without Shrader?

City Space bought a lot of Shrader's houses. Some they continued renting as is, some they did some work on, some they restored and put up for sale. I can't fault them for any of this. They have provided affordable rentals, mostly for good people. Their houses have not been crack houses or whorehouses, to my knowledge. They are now transitioning from providing affordable rentals to creating affordable homes to purchase, all without taxpayer assistance. I wish them great success!

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What a wonderful project! The web site is impressive. These folks really seem to appreciate the charming character of that little neighborhood, and want to restore it to historic standards. I hope the city gives them time to do it. It would be a shame to tear it all down.

I wouldn't call City Space slumlords. They did not divide their old houses into apartments; they bought old houses that had been divided into apartments many years earlier. Many were purchased from Shrader Properties, a sort of slumlord who mostly rented to hippies, many of whom were (still are) friends of mine. The hippies reviled Shrader, but where would they have lived without Shrader?

City Space bought a lot of Shrader's houses. Some they continued renting as is, some they did some work on, some they restored and put up for sale. I can't fault them for any of this. They have provided affordable rentals, mostly for good people. Their houses have not been crack houses or whorehouses, to my knowledge. They are now transitioning from providing affordable rentals to creating affordable homes to purchase, all without taxpayer assistance. I wish them great success!

I think the project is going to be very good for the area, and I am glad that things are starting to move forward here. I am especially happy that the historic homes will be preserved (assuming that renovations will happen within the required timeframe). In its current form, this project makes it appear that Cityscape appreciates the historic neighborhood, but this is far from what the original plan for these properties would have said about their intentions. I've been sort of following the status of this project after stumbling across their website a few months ago, and restoring these homes to historic standards was most certainly not part of the original plan.

If you read the article on New Raleigh from Feb. of last year about this project's original plans, you'll see how the current plan is pretty much the opposite of what was initially intended by Cityscape (tear everything down and build $300k townhomes). I'm not completely sure what caused them to make such a 180 with their plans (zoning? neighborhood requirement to preserve a historic district? I don't know), but I get the impression that they were somehow required to make this change in order to move forward with any development of the area.

I certainly wouldn't fault anyone for providing affordable housing to people who need it, but obviously this is substandard housing if the City is threatening to demolish these homes if not renovated within six months. The houses were purchased for dirt cheap per the tax records. I think that some renovations could have been made (in the almost 10 years that Cityspace has owned some of them) that would have kept them off the demolition list. :dontknow:

Now, if they had truly wanted to preserve these historic properties from the get-go and had gone with the current plan from the beginning, this area would probably be well on its way to being a lovely neighborhood by now. I know I would certainly be interested in living in one of those renovated houses.

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I have been watching CitySpace for some time and I drive past this strip of South Saunders more than once a day. This project will hopefully start to create downtown housing in the niche (what should be our core market) of 100-150 per home/unit. (I have yet to look at the website). Cityspace owns some large homes I hope to see fully restored to their original use eventually. In the meantime they are keeping them up. They also have built one new project I know of at Lenoir behind Project Enlightenment. They replaced one falling down boarding house and restored a nice single family home of about 1920 vintage. I don't think Cityspace is as hard core as Empire about preserving historic buildings but they are angling to take advantage of some of the interest in that market and also seek scale appropriate for the area they are working in. This area of South Saunders already has two new homes built nearby...one on the market for 300ish and the other occupied (possibly built by the buyer of the lot). The area, as discussed at length already is an important part of of downtown with a ton of potential. I happen to know personally two other people who own properties in the area, and they have been intent on renovating instead of replacing (two have in fact seen some improvements already). With that united outlook among property owners, I am hopeful the massive police presence currently needed in the area will one day not be needed for the area will be full of vigilant and invested owner-occupants.

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Maybe I should have been more specific. I have lived in 3 apartments managed by Cityspace. All of them had deteriorating floors, cracked windows, and fixtures that barely worked. Also, I put in several maintenance requests that were never even addressed. I am not familiar with their entire portfolio. So, maybe I should not have been so quick to call them slumlords. What I can say from personal experience though is that the 3 apartments I lived in of theirs were definitely rundown. If they can pull this off I will be very surprised. I will give them the benefit of the doubt on this only because I think what they are propsing now is something that is desperately needed in downtown.

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^ My guess is they have been buying up stuff that others let deteriorate and maybe they were in over their head as far as being able to fix them up at any rate of speed. I think their long term goal too, is really to flip these...not so much in the traditional couple of month turnaround, but over several years...I don't think they really meant to be long term landlords.

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I can understand that. Actually, I just found out that one of the apartments houses I lived in is now being restored back into a single family home. It is the yellow house at the corner of Lenoir and McCulloch. That was by far the worst of the 3 apartments managed by Cityspace that I lived in.

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  • 2 months later...

Things appear to be starting. One house is on a lift and I believe having the foundation replaced. Another looks like the roof is being worked on.

I think they are actually retrofitting a basement in the house(508 South Saunders) that is jacked up. The house will go back down a few feet when it sits on its new foundation/basement.

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  • 3 months later...

I count 5 of those houses being worked on as of today. They are mostly being stripped down to the original studs (in one case even those were mostly replaced), and one had a whole new higher pitched roof put on (presumably to squeeze in a bonus room). The coolest part of this, if true, is that the developer's sign at Lenoir said 3 of the homes were sold. This would seem to lend some credence to the common theme here on UP that the price point of 150k (which I think these were being offer at) is a viable one for downtown Raleigh. There seemed to be a girl in her thirties talking to the workmen, who if she was the buyer, would represent the demographic that has been least served in the downtown market.....that void between subsidized and luxury

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  • 3 weeks later...

Thanks for the heads up. This project still makes me very very happy. Mr owner...see...it works....please renovate that little turn of the century house instead of tearing it down. To FMW, how about renovating the Green House....? Cityspace...wanna buy it and move it....?

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I walked by an open house in this neighborhood. The homes are all really small compared to a typical SF home, but they could be attractive for a young couple (no kids) or someone who wants a house, but doesn't need a lot of space. This could end up being a nice neighborhood. BTW, they are going to build a row of new homes between Saunders St and the creek in the 2nd phase.

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I was just there too, and met the developers (Cityscape folks) and two owners. Looks like 4 of the first 9 are sold. There is a condition in the sales documents that the buyer must live in it for the first year. The owners I met are a guy around 30 and a couple in their late 20's. The City looks like it actually demolished 5 structures in all including one the brick stores before they stopped and allowed Cityscape to put together this development plan.

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  • 3 months later...

Here is a pic of a house on Lenoir just around the corner from Rosengarten Terrace. They are adding a second story over a later addition that was gutted. The decision to renovate here is awesome. It shows the impact Rosengarten is having plus shows that the mentality to bulldoze and start over is hitting price points the economy won't support any longer, much to my delight. You can also see a new house built on a vacant lot next door. (I think the little house there burned 10-15 years ago but am not sure...I looked up several of the vacant lots in the area and forgot what was what now). This makes 6 renovations and two new homes completed in this three block area so far. post-4367-126972335852_thumb.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Three of the completed houses will be open at Rosengarten Park this Saturday from 1-5.

I also heard that CitySpace is getting ready to start a new project on Dorothea that is based on the same model as Rosengarten Park. The website has a little more information, but still looks as though it is under construction: http://www.dorotheadrive.com/

I rode my bike through Rosengarten Park last weekend and it is coming along. I am wondering what will eventually happen with some of the businesses in that area that draw loiterers and are general eyesores.

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I am very glad to see they are doing something with those wretched shotgun houses. I looked at them a few years ago and they were in awful condition. The floors inside were warped beyond repair, windows were broken, and empty liquor bottles were strewn around the inside and outside of the property. As I exited the house there was a woman screaming to herself, or anyone who would listen, while rolling her shopping cart down the road. Admittedly, I did not think they would be able to pull the Rosengarten Terrace project off. I am glad they did though. This new Dorthea Dr project will help further in making that area of downtown more inviting. The small park behind the Rosengarten Terrace needs some upgrades. Are there any plans to take care of that?

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  • 2 years later...
  • 2 months later...

I saw on the news the other night that they had completed their building on this project. Any idea when the city is going to use the 500k they got in the last bond issue and put in the Greenway? Maybe now that most of the construction is done they can do some street improvements as well.

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Not sure on the greenway but I bike through there all the time and can say the final houses are going up on Rosengarten and are fairly large. THere is one vacant lot on 'little' South Saunders where the one-story brick commercial building was torn down that has a for sale sign up. Dorothea Gardens is still just getting started and is dependent on the greenway for cache I think too. Walking or biking through there at night is a millions times safer feeling than it was 5 years ago....

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  • 2 months later...

Dorothea Gardens is still just getting started and is dependent on the greenway for cache I think too. Walking or biking through there at night is a millions times safer feeling than it was 5 years ago....

Missed out on Rosengarten but I am curious about Dorothea, I was back in town last week and it appeared that at least 4 of the shotgun houses were either renovated or being renovated..Any ideas on the timeline across the street? I checked out the web site and they were saying the City Council approved their site plan... Maybe my ignorance of the planning process is showing here but does that mean they have the approvals to break ground?... maybe its time to start a new thread since Rosengarten appears to be done

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  • 2 years later...

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