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DetroitMan

Study urges light rail on Woodward Avenue

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So what's going to happen to the privately funded line? I still think they should have picked the Michigan Ave line if another group is willing to privately finance a Woodward line. The only good thing is that the publicly financed line would travel all the way to 8 Mile with the idea that Oakland County will eventually create their own extension to Birmingham.

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The reality is that any line would have to be longer than these proposals to have good ridership numbers. The more people in reach of a line and the more places it goes to equals more riders.

Also any woodward line would have to go at least to DT Ferndale/Royal oak to be any use to me personally. :shades:

At least they are talking about stuff. It just would be nice if they were not talking so small. That is what created the people mover loop.

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DDOT still has daily ridership numbers on the buses posted at 25,000 or so on Woodward. I am having trouble understanding the low ridership projection also, but maybe they are estimating low usage so that when the projections are passed up significantly, it will warrant for more federal money possibly for an expansion or even another line. Thats just my thoughts on the issue.

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So what's going to happen to the privately funded line? I still think they should have picked the Michigan Ave line if another group is willing to privately finance a Woodward line. The only good thing is that the publicly financed line would travel all the way to 8 Mile with the idea that Oakland County will eventually create their own extension to Birmingham.

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Obviously a line down Woodward and eventually Michigan and Gratiot would be great for business. There are a lot of businesses that don't come to Detroit because of how expensive the parking is downtown. For example, my Dad (who is self employed) was going to get an office downtown but couldn't afford $10 a day for parking.

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I'm sorry, why would you not put light rail right down the center of Woodward to Jefferson? I don't understand why you would not serve the Campus Martius area but you would serve Washington Blvd. Is it to serve the Rosa Parks Transit Center? If the City of Detroit had the kind of frequency of service that a major city warrants, Rosa Parks is unnecessary. It is an admission that service levels are so poor in this city that you are going to have to wait for the bus, so we wil throw you a bone and give you a covered facility to wait in.

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I think it would be better for the line to be on Congress and Larned instead of Jefferson. I don't think Jefferson would be a pleasant waiting experience. Also, there are already A LOT of buses which use those roads, which would be convenient for transferring. It would also bring the line into the financial district (instead of wrapping around it)(and would be really close to Campus Martius, and would touch Cadillac Square), since that's where people really want to go. Also, there are surface lots that would benefit from the line being on those streets, while Jefferson there is either more or less built out, or a freeway interchange. East of the highway (maybe Rivard) it could turn over to Jefferson, which I don't think needs explanation.

There would be stops at Congress/Larned and Washington, Woodward, and Beaubein.

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That was a well outlines and reasoned response jsmyers,

I am personally a proponent of the pipe-dream idea of a sub-terrainnean loop under Washington to Jefferson then back up under Broadway (similar to a drawing I did of a possible transit system for myself) wherein feeder lines up the radial streets would circle into it and back out.

In the same vein as my agreement with your comments on how Woodward is to narrow as is and Ignoring how "pie-in-the-sky" that idea is, what are its practical limitations beyond monetary concerns? Thoughts anyone?

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Here's a map I made up of a possible region-wide transit system:

routes.gif

Obviously it wouldn't be built all at once.

The dotted colored routes represent light rail and/or possibly streetcar lines. The black routes represent commuter rail lines along existing tracks or former ROWs. The purple route represents BRT along Big Beaver/Metro Pkwy. The small gray routes represent standard feeder bus lines. (in Monroe and St. Clair counties)

The blue line runs from Downriver to the northern suburbs via mainly Fort St and Woodward Ave.

The red line runs from Old Redford to Metro Airport via mainly McNichols, Woodward, Michigan, and Merriman.

The green line runs from Twelve Oaks Mall to Mt. Clemens via mainly Grand River and Gratiot.

The silver line runs from West Bloomfield to Eastland Mall via mainly Northwest Hwy, 8 Mile, Woodward, and East Jefferson and Mack.

The gold line runs along Grand Blvd from Bell Isle to Fort St.

As far as the Downtown alignment goes, I have the three Woodward lines turning west onto Adams St and south onto Cass St where they meet up with the Grand River Ave line. All four lines stop at Cass and State St (Times Square/Rosa Parks Transit Center). The red line then turns west onto Michigan Ave and leaves downtown. The other three lines turn east onto Michigan Ave and then south onto Washington Blvd. The blue line then turns west onto Fort St and leaves downtown. The other two lines continue and then turn east on Jefferson Ave. The silver line continues on Jefferson and leaves downtown. The green line turns north onto Beaubian St and then west onto Gratiot Ave and leaves downtown.

Beaubien St between Lafayette Blvd and Gratiot Ave would be closed to cars and only accessible by the light rail train as well as pedestrians. The same would be true for Adams St between Woodward Ave and Cass Ave as well as Washington Blvd between Michigan Ave and W Jefferson Ave.

Cass St between Adams St and Michigan Ave would be limited to one lane of traffic in each direction (with streetside parking on some blocks.) The same would be true for Beaubien St between E Jefferson Ave and Lafayette Blvd.

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I think it would be better for the line to be on Congress and Larned instead of Jefferson. I don't think Jefferson would be a pleasant waiting experience. Also, there are already A LOT of buses which use those roads, which would be convenient for transferring. It would also bring the line into the financial district (instead of wrapping around it)(and would be really close to Campus Martius, and would touch Cadillac Square), since that's where people really want to go. Also, there are surface lots that would benefit from the line being on those streets, while Jefferson there is either more or less built out, or a freeway interchange. East of the highway (maybe Rivard) it could turn over to Jefferson, which I don't think needs explanation.

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Great map. I think you've posted it before, but I never complimented you before.

The black routes represent commuter rail lines along existing tracks or former ROWs.

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I originally had the northern/eastern commuter lines coming in through the Dequindre Cut traveling along Atwater street (mainly under ground) and stopping where Cobo Arena currently sits at a new transit center (think the port authority bus terminal in Midtown Manhattan.). The southern/western lines would just travel along the tracks to Canada and turn along Jefferson/Atwater to reach the Transit Center. It would have served most commuter rail lines and just about every streetcar/lightrail line. It also would have had a large retail promenade as well as a mid-rise hotel. Hell, you could even incorporate space for an expanded Cobo Hall on a level or two. (Though ideally, I would prefer the Red Wings to build their new stadium behind the Fox Theatre and tear down the Joe Louis arena for an expanded Cobo.)

The idea of the commuter rail system coming into Downtown via the MCS is appealing, but I don't think that it will happen. The New Center station is where the current focus for regional rail is. Granted, I would prefer the transit center to be located at MCS over New Center.

BTW, the silver line is for Southfield and Lake St. Clair.

The blue line for Bloomfield Hills, its northern terminus.

The red line for Redford, its northern terminus.

the gold line is for Grand Blvd.

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Did anyone else see Granholm's televised townhall meeting last night? She hinted twice at some major announcement coming in the not-to-distant future about mass transit in Detroit, and it wasn't one of those B.S. nod-and-wink hints either.

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I think she was just referring to the DTOGS study picking the Woodward alternative and how I'm sure in the next several months will likely be approved.

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It's confusing because she was talking in future tense. I haven't been keeping up with this, but I distinctly remember her hinting at something that hadn't been announced. In fact, she hinted twice at something concerning SE Michigan mass transit as she was asked two separate questions by two separate Detroiters. One woman asked her about how we were going to connect people with jobs without proper mass transit making reference to the airport. Later, a Highland Park man asked in a round-about way if we'd see something up Woodward since Highland Park sits right on Woodward. Maybe she was talking about this, but it wouldn't make sense for her to make reference to the not-too-distant future if this has already been announced.

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Most people in the region don't know about the commuter rail or light rail studies.;)

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^ That's a cool find. A system like that (of course of modern technology) would be amazing.

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