Does Jealousy Really Exist in the Triad?

[luvdowntowngso]

I have nothing against this topic! However, while we debate jealously in the Triad, and the News & Record headlines "Man Robs Bojangles"...Chatlotte and Raleigh are buliding office towers! I love living here! But for the life of me, I can't figure why the Triad can't get ahead in the game! If we have anything to be jealous of, it is the fact that we are getting the crap beat out of us in real growth and economic development by the other metro areas of this state!

**For those who didn't get it...The referance to the N & O headline about "Bojangles" was a attempt to, in an abstract way, demonstrate the reporting of fairly useless news because of the lact economic development news in the Triad in recent months.**

[JerseyBoy]

I have nothing against this topic! However, while we debate jealously in the Triad, and the News & Record headlines "Man Robs Bojangles"...Chatlotte and Raleigh are buliding office towers! I love living here! But for the life of me, I can figure why the Triad can't get ahead in the game! If we have anything to be jealous of, it is the fact that we are getting the crap beat out of us in real growth and economic development by the other metro areas of this state!

[krazeeboi]

^I don't think it's as much about being aggressive as it is about laying the groundwork for future industries that will enjoy rapid growth; this is something that Greensboro and Winston-Salem largely failed to do (although it could be argued that Winston-Salem did indeed try to do this with banking, but got blindsided by its big sister to the south). Charlotte's present rapid growth is largely attributed to the growth of the banking industry (particularly in the 80's and 90's), aided by changes in state law and visionary civic leadership (e.g., Hugh McColl). Raleigh's is centered around the creation of RTP several decades ago, the brainchild of state government officials. Now both cities are nationally known for their business clusters: Charlotte with banking and Raleigh with biotech. They can afford to be aggressive because they have resources, but they didn't get them overnight. The Triad is going to have to identify and strengthen its economic clusters and try to provide something unique in those areas to distinguish itself from others in the same pack. As of now, I can't say that I see one thing in particular that might help in that regard. Winston-Salem has PTRP, but it's fairly new and biotech research campuses come a dime a dozen these days. Greensboro has large distribution and manufacturing companies coming online, but that's also pretty coming for any city of a decent size. It's got to be along the lines of what the airport is to Atlanta, the music industry is to Nashville, energy is to Houston, IT is to Austin, etc.

[Beany]

Yes I agree there is competiveness and jealousy between the two. Especially on the online forums but indeed in the real world also. However, I do not think anyone is to blame. It is just the unique layout of this area having two very similar cities so close together. I do not think this relationship will change anytime soon.

I do not think we as a region have to feel bad about where we are with the state of the economy. NC just happens to be blessed to have two metros that have performed extremely well. When you compare the Triad to the nation as a whole or even the SE the region has always been competitive. The Triad has always been a manufacturing hub. There is nothing wrong with that. Someone had to make all that furniture and textiles. Unfortunately with the change in the global economy, Wal-martization, free trade ageeements, and other influences manufacturing has taken a big hit in the US. In the Triad we have been greatly affected by it. Perhaps we should have diversified our economy better many years ago, but the same thing can be said for a countless number of other regions in the US.

I think the Triad is in a transition and things will continue to improve. Most people consider the quality of life to be very good here. Most people agree the Triad has a great location. Most people consider the people as hospitable and friendly. These are the things that has helped us in the past and I think will continue to help us in the future.

Getting back on topic. I do not think the competiveness between the two cities is such a bad thing as long as we can cooperate on important issues and large projects. For instance, the area needs to continue to work together on such issues as transportation. PART is a good example of that cooperation.

Or.... we could just settle this once and for all and just merge all of Guilford and Forsyth counties into one city. One city with 3 downtowns, how cool would that be?

[luvdowntowngso]

Beany, you make some very good points in your post! I have often thought about what the benefits could be if the Triad cities merged! Each having it's own idenity... but merging goverments and mass transit. I dream of the day when the 3 cities along with Kernersville can be connected by light rail.

Didn't Norfolk and the Hampton Roads area merge years ago. At what level, I'm not sure!

[yadkinv]

The problem with coorperation is not that the two cities are too close, but that thery are too far apart. Most dual cities in metro areas started out closer or are much larger that W-S and G., but it matters that the downtowns are 25 miles apart given the relatively small size of the two.

I agree that transportation is a huge task on which their should be cooperation, but that is mostly controlled by DOT, and no one can say that W-S has gotten a fair transportation shake especially over G. (granted that was mostly necessitated by the I 40 & I 85 junction), but what about the needless delays over the W-S Beltway) and no it's not because of the one puny protest); not to mention the rediculous favoritism recently over yet again delayoing the W-S Beltway for the pet project in Fayetteville of I 295. No, this is not a thing for cooperation only because PART has no real authority in DOT matters.

[krazeeboi]

Beany, you make some very good points in your post! I have often thought about what the benefits could be if the Triad cities merged! Each having it's own idenity... but merging goverments and mass transit. I dream of the day when the 3 cities along with Kernersville can be connected by light rail.

Didn't Norfolk and the Hampton Roads area merge years ago. At what level, I'm not sure!

[coastalmindset]

I have nothing against this topic! However, while we debate jealously in the Triad, and the News & Record headlines "Man Robs Bojangles"...Chatlotte and Raleigh are buliding office towers! I love living here! But for the life of me, I can't figure why the Triad can't get ahead in the game! If we have anything to be jealous of, it is the fact that we are getting the crap beat out of us in real growth and economic development by the other metro areas of this state!

[gso27]

As a kid growing up in Greensboro in the 70's and 80's, I was always jealous of Winston-Salem. It's downtown had taller buildings, was something more than the one street strip typical of many Southern downtown and had highways close to the city's center. Hell, they even had their own airport! Dispite it's smaller size, it just looked like a bigger city because of it's more agressive business community. Those days might be over for Winston, but it's always had an impressive downtown for a city of it's size. While Greensboro looked like a office park by comparison. I wonder if today's leaders in Greensboro and WS had the same impressions I did but never grew out of them.

[triadguy37]

As a kid growing up in Greensboro in the 70's and 80's, I was always jealous of Winston-Salem. It's downtown had taller buildings, was something more than the one street strip typical of many Southern downtown and had highways close to the city's center. Hell, they even had their own airport! Dispite it's smaller size, it just looked like a bigger city because of it's more agressive business community. Those days might be over for Winston, but it's always had an impressive downtown for a city of it's size. While Greensboro looked like a office park by comparison. I wonder if today's leaders in Greensboro and WS had the same impressions I did but never grew out of them.

[cityboi]

Or.... we could just settle this once and for all and just merge all of Guilford and Forsyth counties into one city. One city with 3 downtowns, how cool would that be?

[sean]

I wont get into it because I dont want to start a "my city is better than your city" thread.

[triadguy37]

I think so many people would disagree with you on so many levels. I wont get into it because I dont want to start a "my city is better than your city" thread.

[Beany]

I think I will put in my profile that I am from downtown Stokesdale so that way I can bash Stokesdale and people will think gosh I must really know what I'm talking about since I live there. Not a very clever disguise but good try.

Another thing that could potentially create better cooperation is a large joint project. A good example would have been a Major League baseball team. If that had all worked out, and I'm not sure it would have even if new taxes had been approved for it, think of the identity it could have fostered as the Piedmont Triad. So maybe we need a project to rally around. Maybe Heart of the Triad should be looking at building or attracting a large tourist destination that straddles the county line. Maybe a theme park?? We could use somethign that is OURS. Ours together.

[davidals]

First: to the actual topic of the thread...yes, there is jealousy. This exists in all or almost all of the multi-cenetered metro areas in the US, perhaps beyond.

They can afford to be aggressive because they have resources, but they didn't get them overnight. The Triad is going to have to identify and strengthen its economic clusters and try to provide something unique in those areas to distinguish itself from others in the same pack. As of now, I can't say that I see one thing in particular that might help in that regard. Winston-Salem has PTRP, but it's fairly new and biotech research campuses come a dime a dozen these days. Greensboro has large distribution and manufacturing companies coming online, but that's also pretty coming for any city of a decent size. It's got to be along the lines of what the airport is to Atlanta, the music industry is to Nashville, energy is to Houston, IT is to Austin, etc.

[triadguy37]

I think I will put in my profile that I am from downtown Stokesdale so that way I can bash Stokesdale and people will think gosh I must really know what I'm talking about since I live there. Not a very clever disguise but good try.

[yadkinv]

Your points are relevant when mentioning the success of the other metro areas, but the difference is that those metro areas had a dominant city, and the Triad does not. Even Raleigh/Durham, Raleigh is (and was during the phenominal growth) the dominant city.

Regarding the airport, it is the way it is, and everyone knows that. All Winston-Salem wants is recognition on the schedule boards nationwide as is Raleigh/Durham, and for travel agents when asked for a ticket to Winston-Salem not to say you can't fly there, but to say, oh that's Piedmont Triad International. That's not unreasonable nor is it too much to ask.

[cityboi]

Regarding the airport, it is the way it is, and everyone knows that. All Winston-Salem wants is recognition on the schedule boards nationwide as is Raleigh/Durham, and for travel agents when asked for a ticket to Winston-Salem not to say you can't fly there, but to say, oh that's Piedmont Triad International. That's not unreasonable nor is it too much to ask.

[gso27]

I did not mean to imply that it was "over" for Winston-Salem. I just feel it's days of having a vastly larger downtown might be over because of the type of development happening in each city. The great thing about the Triad is that it's major cities each have their own special vibe. Although some might agree that WS has a more urban feel to it, Greensboro seems more lively (especially downtown at night). I think there will be enough growth to go around especially if the Triad magages growth together.

[intcvlcphlga]

While jealousy may exist, I don't think Winston-Salem has any reason to be jealous of Greensboro, or Greensboro to be jealous of Winston-Salem. Both cities prospered in an era when you could build an economy on moderate paying blue-collar, manufacturing jobs complemented by a few corporate headquarters. Unfortunately, and this is probably more true of W-S, complacency set in coupled with bad leadership from the city government and corporate conservatism (from RJR, Wachovia, Hanes, Piedmont Airlines, etc), there was a lack of preparation for the evolving, globalizing economy. If anything, Winston-Salem should be jealous of Charlotte or Raleigh and Durham - all of which were more astute in reading the economic tea-leaves if only because they lacked the huge local job base provided by companies like Reynolds and Hanes. I think the future of the Winston-Salem area is reliant on its institutions of higher education - particularly Wake Forest and the North Carolina School of the Arts. PTRP (along with WFU Health Sciences) and the expanded arts and design offerings could reap economic benefits if W-S could shake its old-money, head-in-the-sand mentality, get off its butt and honor the legacy that the Moravians, R.J. Reynolds, the Hanes family, Tom Davis, etc. bequeathed to them.

[JerseyBoy]

Amen! I gave up on this site a while back because the trend in threads was headed toward folks cheerleading (vomiting) for their towns.

[krazeeboi]

Manufacturing and logistics? I don't think that this is a sound investment in our future as we've already been down this road before.

[yadkinv]

There seems to be confusion on the airport thing. I think everyone has given up on the code change; that is not really all that important anyway. No, it's not the airport code, but it is to have the monitors in all of the airports nationwide display Greensboro/Winston-Salem or even Greensboro/Winston on the monitor the way they do Raleigh/Durham. Why will no one anywhere do that? It's a reasonable and proper request, and it has nothing to do with space as there are longer displays (especially if it's Winston without Salem).

Since it seems that the airport and the Interstate highways are the prime stated ingredients here for the dominant city then it's by default Greensboro, which I posted numerous posts ago, W-S has already lost because it was a victim of poor judgement in the nineteenth century and lack of quality leadership in the mid 20th century (or at least bad decisions). There is some quality leadership in W-S now, but it's too late.

[cityboi]

There seems to be confusion on the airport thing. I think everyone has given up on the code change; that is not really all that important anyway. No, it's not the airport code, but it is to have the monitors in all of the airports nationwide display Greensboro/Winston-Salem or even Greensboro/Winston on the monitor the way they do Raleigh/Durham. Why will no one anywhere do that? It's a reasonable and proper request, and it has nothing to do with space as there are longer displays (especially if it's Winston without Salem).

Since it seems that the airport and the Interstate highways are the prime stated ingredients here for the dominant city then it's by default Greensboro, which I posted numerous posts ago, W-S has already lost because it was a victim of poor judgement in the nineteenth century and lack of quality leadership in the mid 20th century (or at least bad decisions). There is some quality leadership in W-S now, but it's too late.

[Beany]

I would like to think in the future we will be talking less about Greensboro-this and Winston-Salem-that and would be talking more about the TRIAD as a whole. I know many people are not too fond of HOT but I still think the idea is very good for improving unification of the region. Everyone wants there downtown to boom and that is great. However, while we boom our downtowns somehow it would be good if we could boom in location between the cities that serves as a unification point. Smart-development can occur in the HOT. I still like the idea though of a center-piece for HOT like an amusement park.