Frederik Meijer Gardens - $115 Million Expansions/Enhancements

[GRDadof3]

1 hour ago, Quercus said:

Wow. Seems like every other year there is a major announcement out there!

Interesting to see some of you bring up the parking. Meijer Gardens is providing the parking, not the city. And what choice does FMG have? The surrounding land uses aren't favorable for varied transportation. The city is diversifying transportation in areas where it works. FMG has always been auto-oriented and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I love the place, but from day one the location has always kind of disappointed me. It would have been interesting to see it in a more urban context like so many great botanical gardens.

It will be interesting to see if FMG's continued success forces them to implement regular shuttle service to the outlying south / overflow / amphitheater lot like they sometimes have for events. Then again, if the parking lot landscaping and walkways are nice enough people probably don't mind strolling a few extra minutes.

You must work in sales. Or PR. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

FMG is getting close to what, 100 acres? Where in the "urban area" of Grand Rapids do you think would be a good spot for 100 acres of privately owned "pay-to-access" land? 

 

[Pattmost20]

11 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

You must work in sales. Or PR. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

FMG is getting close to what, 100 acres? Where in the "urban area" of Grand Rapids do you think would be a good spot for 100 acres of privately owned "pay-to-access" land? 

 

Over 300 acres. 150 acres without the former golf course included. If it were just botanical gardens I would love for it to be in the city, some of the more well known ones are only 10-20 acres, but with the sculpture park, amphitheater, and Japanese garden, I agree it has to be where it is. I would love to see some sort or bus or shuttle run out there, make it feel a little more connected to the city.  

[Quercus]

Gardens and sculpture parks come in all shapes and sizes. When the West Michigan Horticultural Society began planning the gardens in the 1980's I imagine their search for a site considered all sorts of locations. So, think back to the late 1980's, early 1990's and what was potentially available at the time: City/County golf courses (100+ acres each), Butterworth site (150+ acres but mostly unsuitable for deep-rooted plants), vacant industrial parcels along US-131, rail yards, city property along the river. Some of the gravel pit areas that eventually became Millennium Park could have worked well but you begin to run into some of the same auto-orientation issues.

Now that I think about it, a Horticultural Society report on their site surveys would be really interesting to read. As I understand it, Mr. Meijer ultimately offered up the land he already owned there. Hard to resist such a donation!

Like I said, FMG is great. And they have filled out the site in ways no one imagined. I just think the location is inaccessible to certain socioeconomic groups who would otherwise be interested in visiting, volunteering, or working there.

[egrguy]

If the zoo ordinance would have passed would FMG gone somewhere else or would it have all been at the same property?

[joeDowntown]

7 hours ago, jdkacz said:

If the zoo ordinance would have passed would FMG gone somewhere else or would it have all been at the same property?

FMG was already there. The zoo would have been built on the golf course (which Meijer acquired for that purpose). 

Joe

[joeDowntown]

MLive has a good overview (with pics that match up to the renderings and a site map). Really helped me visualize the changes. Great upgrades. 

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/03/meijer_garden_unveils_115m_exp.html#incart_river_mobile_home

Joe

[wingbert]

On 3/24/2017 at 9:13 PM, Quercus said:

Interesting to see some of you bring up the parking. Meijer Gardens is providing the parking, not the city. And what choice does FMG have? The surrounding land uses aren't favorable for varied transportation. The city is diversifying transportation in areas where it works. FMG has always been auto-oriented and I don't see that changing anytime soon. I love the place, but from day one the location has always kind of disappointed me. It would have been interesting to see it in a more urban context like so many great botanical gardens.

FMG has as much choice as the city when it comes to providing parking.  FMG recognizes that if they reduce available parking they will more than likely reduce the number of visitors in the short term and in the long term they will develop a reputation as inhospitable - regardless of whether or not they tell people to take the bus to the gardens or car pool to the gardens, etc..  On the other hand, the city hasn't quite grasped that concept.

[Quercus]

2 hours ago, wingbert said:

FMG has as much choice as the city when it comes to providing parking.  FMG recognizes that if they reduce available parking they will more than likely reduce the number of visitors in the short term and in the long term they will develop a reputation as inhospitable - regardless of whether or not they tell people to take the bus to the gardens or car pool to the gardens, etc..  On the other hand, the city hasn't quite grasped that concept.

I disagree. The transportation options available for trips to FMG pale in comparison to most of GR. The Rapid gets you to within, what, one mile of the main entrance? There are maybe fifty households within walking distance of the gardens. And navigating that area on foot or bike can be dangerous. Students at Cornerstone probably don't even feel comfortable crossing the East Beltline.

Neighboring land uses and connections to central GR have left FMG little choice but to focus their transportation strategy almost entirely on automobile parking.

[joeDowntown]

Says Quercus, president of the AAA (anti automobile association).  Seriously though, your stance seems to be "if you want to park downtown, screw you". And if an organization recognizes the need for parking in the suburbs, "screw them too".

I agree that the Gardens should be accessible to all (and knowing the organization, I'm sure they work hard to meet the needs of everyone), but come on!

Joe

[GRDadof3]

5 minutes ago, joeDowntown said:

Says Quercus, president of the AAA (anti automobile association).  Seriously though, your stance seems to be "if you want to park downtown, screw you". And if an organization recognizes the need for parking in the suburbs, "screw them too".

I agree that the Gardens should be accessible to all (and knowing the organization, I'm sure they work hard to meet the needs of everyone), but come on!

Joe

It would be great if they provided bike parking for those who want to bike there. I was turned around by security and told "no bikes." 

But other than that, it's a super-regional visitor attraction. Shuttles do run from downtown to the gardens during large conventions at Devos, but a Rapid bus to the gardens? GRPS and plenty of other schools take kids from the inner city to the gardens, especially to see the butterflies. Are there a bunch of other impoverished people sitting around lamenting that they can't go see a Rodin sculpture? Uber is just a phone tap away. 

Plus, the last thing that Rapid route that serves the Knapp's Corner Meijer needs is to be LONGER. 

[wingbert]

11 hours ago, Quercus said:

I disagree. The transportation options available for trips to FMG pale in comparison to most of GR. The Rapid gets you to within, what, one mile of the main entrance? There are maybe fifty households within walking distance of the gardens. And navigating that area on foot or bike can be dangerous. Students at Cornerstone probably don't even feel comfortable crossing the East Beltline.

Neighboring land uses and connections to central GR have left FMG little choice but to focus their transportation strategy almost entirely on automobile parking.

Not to belabor the point, but...  One may be a private organization and one may be a municipality, but they both have the same goals (or should) - a welcoming environment, people, activity, vibrancy, etc.  How is it incumbent on one to ensure that convenient and accessible parking is available and not the other?  

[Pattmost20]

7 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

It would be great if they provided bike parking for those who want to bike there. I was turned around by security and told "no bikes." 

But other than that, it's a super-regional visitor attraction. Shuttles do run from downtown to the gardens during large conventions at Devos, but a Rapid bus to the gardens? GRPS and plenty of other schools take kids from the inner city to the gardens, especially to see the butterflies. Are there a bunch of other impoverished people sitting around lamenting that they can't go see a Rodin sculpture? Uber is just a phone tap away. 

Plus, the last thing that Rapid route that serves the Knapp's Corner Meijer needs is to be LONGER. 

I'm not saying a bus or shuttle would be worth it on a monetary basis, just that it would be nice. Concerts there are a lot of fun, but would be more fun if I didn't have to pay $20- $30 round trip on an uber just to enjoy an adult beverage or two. Assuming that the only people who would take a bus to the gardens are impoverished is a bit ridiculous.

[GRDadof3]

2 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

I'm not saying a bus or shuttle would be worth it on a monetary basis, just that it would be nice. Concerts there are a lot of fun, but would be more fun if I didn't have to pay $20- $30 round trip on an uber just to enjoy an adult beverage or two. Assuming that the only people who would take a bus to the gardens are impoverished is a bit ridiculous.

$20 - $30?? Where are you coming from?  Maybe you should move closer, lol. 

We take uber downtown probably once a month and I think it's $4.00. 

[Allison Slater]

11 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

It would be great if they provided bike parking for those who want to bike there. I was turned around by security and told "no bikes." 

But other than that, it's a super-regional visitor attraction. Shuttles do run from downtown to the gardens during large conventions at Devos, but a Rapid bus to the gardens? GRPS and plenty of other schools take kids from the inner city to the gardens, especially to see the butterflies. Are there a bunch of other impoverished people sitting around lamenting that they can't go see a Rodin sculpture? Uber is just a phone tap away. 

Plus, the last thing that Rapid route that serves the Knapp's Corner Meijer needs is to be LONGER. 

That's one of the shorter routes in the city. ~30 minutes long from end to end.  Most routes are 45 minutes long.  It even sits at Meijer for a good 15 minutes to stay on schedule, wasted time that could be used connecting to FMG.

Alternatively, they could do a crosstown along EBL running from Celebration North to Woodland and back with a stop at FMG.  Could merge the airport run into it, too.

[Pattmost20]

2 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

$20 - $30?? Where are you coming from?  Maybe you should move closer, lol. 

We take uber downtown probably once a month and I think it's $4.00. 

Midtown. For me to get to Beltline and 28th street it was $10 each way with no surge, $16 with surge. Considering it'll probably surge during concerts, it could easily be $30.

[GRDadof3]

I noticed today that they're going to town with the renovation project. Anyone know/remember the timeline? 

[GRDadof3]

I've seen recently that they've completely stripped away the main entrance. I was going to take some pictures but it's hard to do. What a massive transformation going on.

I also noticed yesterday that they're stockpiling a massive amount of fill/dirt at the old Grand Rapids Golf Club site, where the old clubhouse used to be. Anyone know why? Just go get it out of the way? 

 

[joeDowntown]

9 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

I've seen recently that they've completely stripped away the main entrance. I was going to take some pictures but it's hard to do. What a massive transformation going on.

I also noticed yesterday that they're stockpiling a massive amount of fill/dirt at the old Grand Rapids Golf Club site, where the old clubhouse used to be. Anyone know why? Just go get it out of the way? 

 

Wonder if they cleared a lot of dirt for the new buildings and figure they can use it later?

speaking of the golf course, I heard they were going to have Leonard and Crahen connect, curving through a small part of the golf course. So westbound traffic on Leonard will have to stop, instead of stopping at Crahen to turn onto Leonard. Anyone know when that project starts?

joe

[GRDadof3]

11 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

Wonder if they cleared a lot of dirt for the new buildings and figure they can use it later?

speaking of the golf course, I heard they were going to have Leonard and Crahen connect, curving through a small part of the golf course. So westbound traffic on Leonard will have to stop, instead of stopping at Crahen to turn onto Leonard. Anyone know when that project starts?

joe

That's a good question. They had it all staked off for that bend but I haven't seen any movement on it. I'd be surprised if they can get it done before November 15th now (when all the road paving ends). I did hear that Kent County is way behind in a lot of their construction projects. I thought the massive mess of work on Knapp Street was supposed to be done in August and here we are in October. 

[Raildude's dad]

Crahen / Leonard was / is  a 2019 project. The staking was to show the FMG the property required for highway ROW.  I was at the gardens last Thursday. What a massive expansion is going on. far more expansive than I expected.

As for Knapp, it is a 2 phase project.  Phase 1 east of the river was August. West of Knapp is Oct 31st.

[GRDadof3]

On 10/2/2018 at 9:33 AM, Raildude's dad said:

Crahen / Leonard was / is  a 2019 project. The staking was to show the FMG the property required for highway ROW.  I was at the gardens last Thursday. What a massive expansion is going on. far more expansive than I expected.

As for Knapp, it is a 2 phase project.  Phase 1 east of the river was August. West of Knapp is Oct 31st.

Ahh, I was told by someone the whole thing was supposed to be wrapped up before school started up again. It's like Death Race 2000 out there now, especially going West on Knapp from Grand River. Part of the "temporary" road they put down has totally disintegrated. 

FMG is a $115 Million expansion. 

[sfloria]

I was at the Gardens last week and saw the big hole in the ground where the entrance use to be.  Looks like whatever is going in there will have a pretty deep basement.   They must have taken a lot of dirt from that area.

[GRDadof3]

10 minutes ago, sfloria said:

I was at the Gardens last week and saw the big hole in the ground where the entrance use to be.  Looks like whatever is going in there will have a pretty deep basement.   They must have taken a lot of dirt from that area.

New Welcome Center (just a small part of the expansion):

 

 

https://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2017/03/meijer_garden_unveils_115m_exp.html#incart_river_mobile_home

[Sparty97]

37 minutes ago, GRDadof3 said:

Ahh, I was told by someone the whole thing was supposed to be wrapped up before school started up again. It's like Death Race 2000 out there now, especially going West on Knapp from Grand River. Part of the "temporary" road they put down has totally disintegrated. 

 

I have a full sized SUV and I feel like I'm going to lose a mirror to a mailbox, opposing vehicles or the orange cones every time I drive down Knapp.  I saw that some of the major paving is happening today and tomorrow. 

[Guest]

What exactly is the plan for Knapp?  Make it four lanes?  Grand River and Spaulding  seem to get busier and busier as people discover it's a much better alternative to the EBL  With all that housing going up near Spaulding and Cascade, it seems like it will only get more congested.  I wonder if or when they will look at expanding the road to four lanes.