Just how expensive are Uptown Condos?

[Charlotte_native]

OK -- we've all seen the media reports and heard people talk about how expensive it is to live in Uptown Charlotte. Just how expensive is it? How expensive do you think it is?

Here are some facts taken today (as I worked on a report for a client) from current listings in the area 99, Uptown Market:

Units under $300,000 = 148

Units between $300,000 and $500,000 = 155

Units between $500,000 to a million = 62

Million + 15 units

79.9% of units in Uptown are under $500,000 (303 of them -- 77 units over $500,000)

Complete breakdown (lowest priced unit was $165,000):

Under $200,000 = 19

$200,000 - $250,000 = 51

$250,000 - $300,000 = 78

$300,000 - $350,000 = 46

$350,000 - $400,000 = 40

$400,000 - $450,000 = 41

$450,000 - $500,000 = 28

$500,000 - $550,000 = 19

$550,000 - $600,000 = 10

$600,000 - $650,000 = 5

$650,000 - $1,000,000 = 28

$1,000,000 + = 15

[monsoon]

I note there isn't any comparison of what you get for those prices. i.e. how much space.

In any case, according to the US census, the median household income for Charlotte is about $47K. Median = most people. How many of these people do you think would be lining up to purchase these condos and I think you will have the answer to your question.

[The Fringe]

In any case, according to the US census, the median household income for Charlotte is about $41K. Median = most people. How many of these people do you think would be lining up to purchase these condos and I think you will have the answer to your question.

[sleightofhand]

I note there isn't any comparison of what you get for those prices. i.e. how much space.

In any case, according to the US census, the median household income for Charlotte is about $47K. Median = most people. How many of these people do you think would be lining up to purchase these condos and I think you will have the answer to your question.

[Charlotte_native]

I note there isn't any comparison of what you get for those prices. i.e. how much space.

In any case, according to the US census, the median household income for Charlotte is about $47K. Median = most people. How many of these people do you think would be lining up to purchase these condos and I think you will have the answer to your question.

[monsoon]

Point being the media and press have implied that the prices are simply out of reach. Someone making $47k could afford one. ....

[Charlotte_native]

So yes the papers are right on that the downtown condo is something that is too expensive for the median household in Charlotte, by far.

[Charlotte_native]

household income purchasing a $250K condo which would be at the very low end of that poll that you posted.

[monsoon]

^Are you kidding?

You asked....

... How expensive do you think it is?....

[Charlotte_native]

A quote was made in the paper a few months back by a well quoted consultant here in town that claimed that there is a lack of condos priced under $500,000 in uptown -- this fron a supposed EXPERT -- the numbers clearly show (by almost 80%) that she is wrong.

[jms54]

Looking at the MLS will not give a true representation of the market for condos in uptown. Many condo towers do not list all of their units for sale but just a few that are representative. The Vue alone should have some 150 units still for sale but in reality, none have closed so there are 400 for sale there. The Vue alone also has more than 40 units over 1 million.

The average income of a family really has no bearing on whether or not they are too expensive. What will determine if they are too expensive is if there are enough buyers to keep the inventory at a reasonable level and how long a condo sits on the market once it is complete.

[dubone]

The affordability of these condos is up to individuals. It is pretty well established that uptown condos are predominantly targeted to people working uptown, which have a higher median income than the city average or median. There is also a chance for higher percentage of income dedicated to housing when you don't drive as much and potentially don't have a car at all.

The fact is, people at the median income can afford uptown condos at the low end of the market. The 2.5 x income doesn't count if you don't plan to have a car. People below the median income can easily rent uptown in the current market, and if they are significantly below the median income, they can like uptown in partially subsidized units.

Either way, the prices listed there are lower than I thought.

[mad_park]

A more interesting number would be to see the price per square foot for these condos. Then compare that to price per square foot in other parts of town. How far does your money go in Elizabeth or in South End along the rail line? Is the premium to be downtown instead of a little ways out worth it?

[Mobuchu]

As to the purpose of the poll, I would say that there is a big misconception by the public as to who can live uptown. I myself thought the same. The UP reader is going to be much more educated on the subject, but to the average Joe I bet most think only the wealthy and high class can afford it. Truth is, there are 60 units under 250k. That is very affordable, especially if you factor in that you do not need a car or car insurance and it will cost you a whole lot less to heat and cool your home. I'd also say HOA dues dont equate to what it takes for upkeep on a yard and home over the years.

[jms54]

As to the purpose of the poll, I would say that there is a big misconception by the public as to who can live uptown. I myself thought the same. The UP reader is going to be much more educated on the subject, but to the average Joe I bet most think only the wealthy and high class can afford it. Truth is, there are 60 units under 250k. That is very affordable, especially if you factor in that you do not need a car or car insurance and it will cost you a whole lot less to heat and cool your home. I'd also say HOA dues dont equate to what it takes for upkeep on a yard and home over the years.

[Andyc545]

A more interesting number would be to see the price per square foot for these condos. Then compare that to price per square foot in other parts of town. How far does your money go in Elizabeth or in South End along the rail line? Is the premium to be downtown instead of a little ways out worth it?

[mad_park]

As to the purpose of the poll, I would say that there is a big misconception by the public as to who can live uptown. I myself thought the same. The UP reader is going to be much more educated on the subject, but to the average Joe I bet most think only the wealthy and high class can afford it. Truth is, there are 60 units under 250k. That is very affordable, especially if you factor in that you do not need a car or car insurance and it will cost you a whole lot less to heat and cool your home. I'd also say HOA dues dont equate to what it takes for upkeep on a yard and home over the years.

[Andyc545]

I also disagree w/ the post that the prime market for these is a couple where each makes $50K. I'd argue the uptown lifestyle is marketed at a single person who makes 80-100K (or more, for the more expensive units).

[Mobuchu]

Don't need a car? This is Charlotte, not Manhattan or Chicago. There is hardly any retail shopping downtown. Most folks have friends that don't live downtown whom they might want to visit at their home or neighborhood bar sometime. One of Charlotte's selling points is being 2 hours from the mountains or 3 to the beach...how are you going to get there w/o a car?

[Mobuchu]

I would have to agree with the poster who suggested looking at the price per square foot. I suspect uptown has the highest in the city. I think you will find they are about $200-$500/sq ft certainly much more expensive than comparable (luxury) in the suburbs. I only found a couple units under 250K that were 1000sq ft and most were in the 600-800 sq ft size. Not ideal for a family of 4.

[monsoon]

.... That is very affordable, especially if you factor in that you do not need a car or car insurance and it will cost you a whole lot less to heat and cool your home. I'd also say HOA dues dont equate to what it takes for upkeep on a yard and home over the years.

[Mobuchu]

This has been said several times, but I note that condos in Charlotte are sold with parking spaces. It's my guess that most people who live in Charlotte have to have a car no matter where they live and that means this is a given expense. When I mentioned how environmentally unfriendly the condo with the built in car elevators was, a big deal was mad on "oh but you can't sell condos in Charlotte with accommodation for the automobile".

[monsoon]

For someone who has the financial resources yes it is a question of value instead of affordablility. However, given the median income in Charlotte is what was stated above, it's not an opinion, instead it's a matter of not being able to afford it at all. The numbers simply don't work though I am sure there are people in trouble today with a sub-prime mortgage that tried it. It's the reason the real estate industry in this country is collapsing as I type this.

I have a good friend in Charlotte that is a real estate agent that sells the higher end properties in and around downtown including condos. He was lamenting the fact the other day that in the last couple of months the market has has moved to where there are a bunch of sellers, but no buyers. Bad for agents because all their costs are wrapped up in selling.

[mh10809]

For someone who has the financial resources yes it is a question of value instead of affordablility. However, given the median income in Charlotte is what was stated above, it's not an opinion, instead it's a matter of not being able to afford it at all. The numbers simply don't work though I am sure there are people in trouble today with a sub-prime mortgage that tried it. It's the reason the real estate industry in this country is collapsing as I type this.

[atlrvr]

This is all sillyness.....talking about the median......There are 125,000 housesholds in the city of Charlotte that make MORE than the median income, and 380 units are for sale? The Windows XP calculator might not have as many functions as my nifty TI-83, but it still can calculate that to be 0.3% of all households that make MORE than the median need to chose a condo listed for sale.

And just for refernce sake...that $47k income is almost a decade old, the latest numbers (2008), which are released by HUD for federal housing cost regulatory purposes estimates the Charlotte metro median income at $64,300.

I think we can all agree that most people in Charlotte would prefer space/sq. ft. to location...but again, less than 2% (based on my previous poll of people's home purchasing plans) need to have a different set of priorities.