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Roger's Department Store Site


DwntwnGeo

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We're not thinking outside the box.

The first thing I thought of when I heard this story was "Good's Furniture." (www.goodsfurniture.com)

Good's is in Kewanee, Illinois - the "hog capital" of the midwest, I believe. If you have ever listened to WGN radio, you've likely heard an announcer do a live ad for Good's (and those are NOT cheap ads to buy. Their television spending is also large). Kewanee is a two and a half hour drive from Chicago on a good day.

Good's has become a weekend trip for folks with a little cash to burn to get out of Chicago, buy their nice furniture, and stay for the weekend. They have a bed-and-breakfast there, a restaurant, the whole shot.

Now - this development doesn't need those things right on the grounds as we have plenty to work with in the surrounding area. Kewanee (population 13,000) doesn't have these things anywhere else. But Bob's probably thinking "Why not get 'em to spend their money here?"

No, Wyoming folks may not shop there - but Wilmette folks might.

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Actually there is several issues about 28th Street you guys are forgetting. First and foremost it is a State Highway. As a result Wyoming would have to fight tooth and nail to get any change done on it like you guys would like to see. Its just not possible. The reduction of speed just wont happen secondly. MDOT has a stated goal of moving people as quickly as possible from point A to point B. As a result reduction of speed wont happen with a need being present. Thier form of need is the number of driveways per mile. As a result it would take some serious work to get them to change. I dont think they need to have office buildings left and right to be called a downtown. I think thier goal is more towards commerical on 28th. For most 28th needs to be the shoping area of the city and with Isreal moving in hopefully it spurs more.

BTW on a related noted I was thinking about the 44th and Clyde building and was thinking thats going to be a few years before anybody moves into that. I do not see anybody attempting to move into a commerical property that will have access problems in the next 3 years. I do believe that also held back 28th until the bridge over 131 could get rebuilt.

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And I think that what illustrates the problem with Wyoming.

They marked off an area along a state highway and called it a "downtown".

People have some basic idea of what a downtown is. Strip malls, large parking lots, and a fast moving, 5 lane highway as its principle street just isnt it.

So unless Wyoming scraps the whole idea of this place being a downtown, then they will never achieve what they are looking for, because no one will bend the definition that much to accommodate what is there.

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I'm not getting the idea about MDOT being inflexible about state highways. Aren't there plenty of examples of state highways going through the heart of downtowns in west Michigan? It's been a while, but one example I'm thinking of is M-89 through Otsego. The speed limit is slower (30mph?) through there I think.

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I'm not getting the idea about MDOT being inflexible about state highways. Aren't there plenty of examples of state highways going through the heart of downtowns in west Michigan? It's been a while, but one example I'm thinking of is M-89 through Otsego. The speed limit is slower (30mph?) through there I think.
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I've had that thought as well, but that would be a huge task. All the buildings there were designed with cars in mind so the parking lot is always along the road. Even if it was required that any new building be built up to the sidewalk and after a couple decades it starts to look more like a traditonal downtown it still wouldn't be very walkable because 28th street is 5+ lanes across and cars drive as fast as traffic allows there.

I like the idea of "suburban renewal" which would be the opposite of the urban renewal of the 60s where we would take auto oriented suburban strips and massively redevelopment them into pedestrian and transit oriented corridors. Of course my imagination doesn't really conform to reality.

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the issue comes is that those places have on street parking. MDOT will not allow that to happen. If you looked at downtown holland and thier BUS 31. It was a fight everytime the city wanted to do any changes. Eventually they just said just get rid of the highway and we will suffer not having the traffic come through anymore. I think more than anything else you have to consinder Wyoming is not trying to get offices. If they wanted offices then I can see M11 being an issue instantly. what they what thier downtown to be is a place to do shopping and have a good experince at getting everything. The problem they faced was there was not a good location to bring people in from outside the city except through 28th street. So thats why the used the corridor they did. You have to consider that Rogers Plaza is one of the first and for a time the largest mall in the state. Studio 28 also holds the distinction of having the largest single movie theater in all of the state. So with those two places and now the new furniture expo center it holds some good distinction.

Just one more thought, the idea of moving all of the city buildings to one location was fairly well done. If you consider that the Police, Senior Center, Justice Building, and Main offices are one right after another with some gaps here and there. They all sit on DeHoop and then the Library already had a large tract of land and they used it all up for the new version on Micheal leading to Main Fire Station on 36th and near to Micheal. Its pretty much a 2 mile strip of 6 city buildings spaced out enough to keep traffic from being massive at times.

But as a Wyoming Downtown 28th is about the best location considering Wyoming goes north to Hall Street and south to 60th. The only area that is out of the way would be the pan handle of wyoming but that does not matter as the mall area would provide a better location for them.

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I'm not getting the idea about MDOT being inflexible about state highways. Aren't there plenty of examples of state highways going through the heart of downtowns in west Michigan? It's been a while, but one example I'm thinking of is M-89 through Otsego. The speed limit is slower (30mph?) through there I think.
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It is and according to the counts it was between 10 and 20k cars in 2006. The thing you have to remember is that MDOT takes several items into account. First is how safe is the road at certian speeds. They also look at how many driveways are in the area. 28th is a very safe road since you can see clearly for a good distance. Unlike Division and Holland there is no buildings right on top of the street. So that makes it very easy to have a higher speed limit on 28th. The only reason why they have it at 40 is because of the mall and the number of business along there and probally a request by the city to have it lower. In Grandville its 45 along with Grand Rapids and Kentwood. Walker it seems could care less and has it at 55 for the majority of the time. Given this I do not see 28th being changed any time soon so I think its safe to drop any proposed changes.

Now what I can tell you is that the changes done to Rogers Plaza made it a lot better than what it was. The elimination of the tire care center and the bank moved was a good decision. The key thing is that they need to get more of the parking lot redevoloped. Thats going to take time. They have two buildings coming in with a coffee shop and the sandwich place across from the bank. That will help things along I hope. I am sure they have plans to do more. One thing I would love them to do is get rid of the small shop on Clyde Park with Hobby World and move it onto 28th. That would help in getting another building and hopefully close in the western section of the parking lot. That would leave closing in the area west of duthlers to the sign.

I am not sure what else could be done by US 131. Maybe a complete overhaul from Flowerland to the highway on the north side and from the dollar store to 131 on the southside.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There was also a big article in the Press today, with interestingly Bob Israel making a comparison of himself to Warren Buffett's investment in Nebraska Furniture Mart (hmmm). :)

He also keep dropping teasers about out-of-state companies and the Drueke down on the West Side.

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because its location location location. If you want to create a destination store and have the cost be reasonable, that location is the best. Downtown has a much higher cost and other issues. Those are parking because the last time I checked most people who are going to go to this place will want to pick it up and leave. not many will want to carry thier purchase home. Second the location is awesome to drive customers from locations outside of GR. Thats what this location will do for them. Just remember if this hits off good I am sure they will build more klingmans. The key thing is that they need to make a central location first and thats what this will do for them.

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Adding to the above^^ The new Klingmans will have 500 parking spaces. If Bob opted for a DT location or his westside furniture complex on sixth street he would need to built a parking ramp or tear down buildings to make way for an asphalt sea. I don't know about the rest of you. But I've had my fill of parking ramps and asphalt seas mucking up the core.

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I think the key thing everybody is missing from my post is that the Rogers Location is well known outside of GR. Tell somebody in Lansing about Market ave or the northwest side like a lot would like it to be at and they go WHERE? Tell somebody the old Rogers Dept Store and they go oh yeah I know where that is at. Rogers had a huge following over the years and thats why they chose this location. I would imagine if Klingmans hits it off I am sure they will add more stores to the GR area although smaller versions I am betting. The bottomline is that the company is wanting to create a focal point store with the largest amount of show room space as possible and get it going immediatly. Thats what everybody is missing, you can not keep people on the books for long without some sales coming in to offset it. The store although is not perfect, floor levels are not straight accross but its better than nothing and with the ocean of parking around the store and across the street its not bad. As for the delievery process the thing you are missing is that is what Isreals does at present. Its really hard to then offer it for another store brand along with the hiring of drivers and trucks with everything else that would be required to accomplish it. The other aspect is the cost would have to be tacked onto the price of the furniture and that would negate the idea of seperate enity. If prices are just a bit lower at your klingmans vs isreal I think most people would just end up going to isreal since you get exactly how you want it over what is essentialy a boxed style.

I just think the main aspect is just creating a location that is well known in the surronding area and getting it to hit off. Making a downtown store is more than likely in the works but until they see the main store being successful I am sure they will not expand the brand yet.

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Here's the article from the Grand Rapids Press this past Sunday, as mentioned by GRDad:

Bob Israels maps out furniture store strategy

Excerpt from the article:

This 60-year-old interior designer and businessman is thinking big. In fact, very big.

He has plans to turn the 112-year-old Klingman's into a mega-store selling many top-drawer lines and drawing shoppers from throughout the Midwest.

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"Give me a good four- and five-year plan," he said. "By the time we get out of this (slowdown), I could see a lot more companies going out of business, and I want their market share."

Wow! I'm starting to like Mr. Isreal's determination. :lol:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Pretty interesting update on the Klingmans-Rogers move:

"For four days starting Saturday, about $2 million in furniture will be auctioned"

The interesting part?

"'This could be a Disney community,' Bob Israels said...He outlined the project, including a park designed by 9-year-old Collin Gates, whose mother works with Israels and whose father owns Preferred Landscape Inc. The 1.5-acre park land at 28th and Riley Avenue SW is slated to open Aug. 1, with a 3,200-square-foot skate park, 10-hole miniature golf course and playground. The amenities would be free to the public."

Doesn't exactly sound like Disney to me...

It also mentions that there will be a temporary furniture store in East Lansing, and that some Klingman's employees will be working out of the Israels store on 28th and Breton.

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