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Waterside District


umterp03

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Put me in the renovation camp. I liked the old Waterside Mall before Jillian's pool hall was added cutting off what was great views of the Elizabeth River. I like Waterside, but I think it needs to be opened up to allow more light in like a I.M. Pei type building. Bring back the mom and pop one of kind stores anchored by national chain restaurants and bars. Make the bottom part into some type of farmers market and open bazaar (sp?) similar to the markets here in DC (e.g. Eastern Market, O St. Market etc.) These are very popular places on the weekend where you can buy fresh meats and produce along with antiques and other items. I know this would work in Downtown Norfolk because at one time there was Bessie's Place on the waterfront where Harborpark is now. This farmer's market was extremely popular until it was torn down to make way for the new stadium.

Edited by skylinefan
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Maybe the city should have allowed a developer build a hotel connected to waterside.

It might have increased the foot traffic.

Since that's not going to happen, the city should better promote the food offerings inside waterside during all the festivals....

They need to utilize it more than bringing in a bunch of overpriced food vendors. $5 for a hot dog....OH PLEASE!

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Put me in the renovation camp. I liked the old Waterside Mall before Jillian's pool hall was added cutting off what was great views of the Elizabeth River. I like Waterside, but I think it needs to be opened up to allow more light in like a I.M. Pei type building. Bring back the mom and pop one of kind stores anchored by national chain restaurants and bars. Make the bottom part into some type of farmers market and open bazaar (sp?) similar to the markets here in DC (e.g. Eastern Market, O St. Market etc.) These are very popular places on the weekend where you can buy fresh meats and produce along with antiques and other items. I know this would work in Downtown Norfolk because at one time there was Bessie's Place on the waterfront where Harborpark is now. This farmer's market was extremely popular until it was torn down to make way for the new stadium.

I am with you on this one, plus the architecture of Waterside isnt bad and it is a fairly easy design to modify. The idea that the first floor becomes transparent is a great idea, which would allow it to open up to its surroundings. Reworking the grounds around Waterside is also important, by creating an atmosphere that is inviting to be outside around Waterside, and by this, I mean along Waterside Ave where to me when I was a kid always felt very separatist...while it is good to divide the traffic and the pedestrians up, I found it went to far and creating a dead zone in along the road.

Along the water is another important factor that would need to be reworked to allow small restaurants to open up outside, in a sense like food carts (but more like good food carts) to create a more informal entrance into Waterside.

The second floor and some of the first floor should be mostly used for small retail companies...why not make this an incubator place for small businesses to have a strong market to grow. A farmer's market on the first floor would also be a very attractive idea, especially as the population of people living downtown or near downtown grows. Light rail will play a huge role in this as well.

I do like the idea of having some form of anchor tenant as well, though I cant say what form it should be. I question how important a big chain would be to an idea like this.

The thing with Waterside and the park is that it must be treated as Norfolk's center, or meeting place. All good cities have this, typically in the form of a square that attracts people because of activities and location. In Portland, we have Pioneer Courthouse Square that is called our living room. Seattle have several small examples of this thoughout the city that focuses to each neighborhood. Europe, this is basically the foundation of every city there.

I think if a private developer owned this, they would simply tear it down and replace it with a hotel/office/condos. Then the area would become more of a private location for those people in particular and something that is available to all people of Norfolk would be lost.

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But there is no money for the city to do this. They are broke, and are going to be more broke when the real estate taxes start to decline.

Waterside is just too far away from the rest of downtown. It has it's own parking garage which needs a pedestrian bridge to cross the biggest and most dangerous street in Norfolk. It made itself a destination on its own rather than just working itself into the fabric of downtown Norfolk. It waterside wants to exist any longer, they need to acquire lthe horribly misuse vacant land from the BoA building across the street and rebuild there. Or, the need to convince the city to eliminate two landes from waterside dr so the park, mall, and DT feels like it's actually part of downtown.

(Not to mention, it would also let Norfolk get rid of those HIDEOUS pedstrian bridges. I HATE THEM!)

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Waterside is just too far away from the rest of downtown. It has it's own parking garage which needs a pedestrian bridge to cross the biggest and most dangerous street in Norfolk. It made itself a destination on its own rather than just working itself into the fabric of downtown Norfolk. It waterside wants to exist any longer, they need to acquire lthe horribly misuse vacant land from the BoA building across the street and rebuild there. Or, the need to convince the city to eliminate two landes from waterside dr so the park, mall, and DT feels like it's actually part of downtown.

(Not to mention, it would also let Norfolk get rid of those HIDEOUS pedstrian bridges. I HATE THEM!)

Well in hindsight it has been a mistake of making Waterside its own destination, but in Waterside's defense, when it was constructed, it was all that downtown had. All the office buildings were on Main, the retail was all at Waterside, Granby was a great place for hookers and crack, and the rest of downtown was a parking lot.

But with what I was saying that needs to be done, this also should include a complete redevelopment of Waterside. Which would require very large sidewalks on both sides, along with parallel parking (it is an amazing buffer between people and cars), and would require several new buildings to be built facing Waterside. Just because the road is busy, doesnt mean it needs to not have pedestrian activity as well.

The reuse of land would have to include the land behind the BB&T, the waste of land at the BoA, and the wasted land at the Sheraton (or whatever hotel it currently is).

The skybridge to Waterside is fine, but the other ones seem to be pointless and ugly.

Again pointing out dead zones in the city, by eliminating these, it opens up more possibilities for commercial and retail development to work better.

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Well in hindsight it has been a mistake of making Waterside its own destination, but in Waterside's defense, when it was constructed, it was all that downtown had. All the office buildings were on Main, the retail was all at Waterside, Granby was a great place for hookers and crack, and the rest of downtown was a parking lot.

But with what I was saying that needs to be done, this also should include a complete redevelopment of Waterside. Which would require very large sidewalks on both sides, along with parallel parking (it is an amazing buffer between people and cars), and would require several new buildings to be built facing Waterside. Just because the road is busy, doesnt mean it needs to not have pedestrian activity as well.

The reuse of land would have to include the land behind the BB&T, the waste of land at the BoA, and the wasted land at the Sheraton (or whatever hotel it currently is).

The skybridge to Waterside is fine, but the other ones seem to be pointless and ugly.

Again pointing out dead zones in the city, by eliminating these, it opens up more possibilities for commercial and retail development to work better.

Parallel parking would be a good idea in concert with wider sidewalks as a great excuse to eliminate two lanes of waterside drive. Eliminating two lanes in and of itself would make the whole southern part of waterside dr. feel more a part of downtown.

As for wastes of space, the whole build up of main st. has essentially created a large buffered wall between downtown and waterside, sheraton, DT. Luckly, the developers of the 70s and early 80s decided to leave tracts of underutilzed land, so reclaiming that area from a dead zone into something vibrate with retail or atleast restaurants is plausable.

The success of Waterside however will only come when that whole strip of essentially highway becomes part of downtown again, and like you said, that requires adding new pedestrian friendly buildings along all of waterside.

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One consistent complaint about Waterside is how separated the building is from the rest of downtown. While hardly very far away, it does feel more distant than even one end of Granby Street from another. One option that might resolve this is to create a single structure spanning both sides of Waterside Drive through which the road would pass. Instead of a large parking garage on the DT side, parking could be built under ground with the building above. Pedestrians would be able to approach at street level from all sides and cross Waterside via a moving walkway. The waterfront section could still be larger and have a similar footprint to what it has today. Of course, a major facelift for that end would still be needed.

Below are some examples of roads going "through" buildings:

Google Earth

Osaka

Just a thought.

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One consistent complaint about Waterside is how separated the building is from the rest of downtown. While hardly very far away, it does feel more distant than even one end of Granby Street from another. One option that might resolve this is to create a single structure spanning both sides of Waterside Drive through which the road would pass. Instead of a large parking garage on the DT side, parking could be built under ground with the building above. Pedestrians would be able to approach at street level from all sides and cross Waterside via a moving walkway. The waterfront section could still be larger and have a similar footprint to what it has today. Of course, a major facelift for that end would still be needed.

Below are some examples of roads going "through" buildings:

Google Earth

Osaka

Just a thought.

Definitely an interesting idea, though I doubt would be doable because of the cost to do something like that due to the high watershelf and the fact that the ground in that part of downtown is basically mud, if I am not mistaken.

The issue with separation comes from the fact that both Main and Waterside lack street level activity.

Here is what I am thinking should be done to improve Waterside's connectivity to the rest of downtown. Currently Norfolk is a bunch of divided areas. The residents in W Freemason, the retail on Granby, the businesses on Main, and Waterside. For Waterside to evolve, it needs to have a stronger connection to Granby, which in turn would be a good move for Granby because it would create an avenue of retail that works its way through downtown.

The blue in the image are areas that would be new structures that would primarily be for retail...though there is the possibility of making many of these new structures a few stories high to allow for added office space as well.

The red is where all the intersection and sidewalk upgrades would need to happen. This is an important factor in the connection of the new buildings is making sidewalks work for pedestrians. Also along the sidewalks it would be a good idea for the city to promote itself with retail maps along the path (sort of like mall maps...stupid, but they work).

The green are renovations. On Granby, it would require the retail fronts to be pulled out towards the street to make it flush with the building...possibly even an exterior renovation to the facade would be good as well. On Waterside, I was pointing out the part of the new building that would have to cut into the first floor of the parking garage which would lead to a loss of a few parking spots, but with the number of parking the city currently has, a loss like this would be a very small amount.

Personally I think the Sheraton needs to come down for better use of that land, but I can understand why the owner wouldn't wish to do that, but I think the wasted land along Waterside would be a perfect chance to upgrade the area.

As for skywalks, I think the one running to Waterside is a good one, it makes sense and is used, but the one that runs from the office building to the sidewalk in front of the Sheraton, that one needs to come down.

watersidegu1.jpg

w754.png

Just as an extra thought, one could also say that the platform that the BoA sits on could also be rebuilt to make it more friendly to the sidewalk, thus also opening up Main St to the possibility to activity after business hours. To do this, they would need to tear out the platform and build a podium building that connects in with the lobby and first floor of the building. I always wonder why this wasnt done like this in the first place, but Norfolk was a different kind of downtown when this tower was built. Doing the two changes I suggested for the BoA would increase their office space to lease as well as open the building up to a retail and restaurant market.

The good thing with Norfolk's current situation, while it does have problems, they are not that big to overcome, and with a few choice moves, the city could really make its downtown a strong market....and this isnt even considering St Paul, which is a whole 'nother topic.

Edited by urbanlife
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The green are renovations. On Granby, it would require the retail fronts to be pulled out towards the street to make it flush with the building...possibly even an exterior renovation to the facade would be good as well. On Waterside, I was pointing out the part of the new building that would have to cut into the first floor of the parking garage which would lead to a loss of a few parking spots, but with the number of parking the city currently has, a loss like this would be a very small amount.

Just as an extra thought, one could also say that the platform that the BoA sits on could also be rebuilt to make it more friendly to the sidewalk, thus also opening up Main St to the possibility to activity after business hours. To do this, they would need to tear out the platform and build a podium building that connects in with the lobby and first floor of the building. I always wonder why this wasnt done like this in the first place, but Norfolk was a different kind of downtown when this tower was built. Doing the two changes I suggested for the BoA would increase their office space to lease as well as open the building up to a retail and restaurant market.

I appreciate the thought that went into your ideas, but you suggested a few things that would be very difficult to implement.

Putting retail on the ground floor of the Waterside Garage is a good idea, except the ground level of the garage is a few feet higher than the sidewalk on Waterside Drive, so there is no way for pedestrians to access the retail spaces. You cannot lower the floor level of the garage without exposing the foundations. So you would have to raise the elevation of Waterside Drive and the sidewalk, and still maintain the proper clearance under the pedestrian bridge.

Rebuilding the platform at BofA is also difficult. There is important bank operations space under the platform on the south side (toward Waterside Drive). There is a driveway from Atlantic Street right beside the drive-in teller lanes. This driveway curves around and goes down under the platform. This is where the armored trucks bring in the money. Obviously, security is very, very tight there. I do not see BofA giving up their driveway or the platform above their loading dock.

You seem to want to eliminate all of the pedestrian plazas except for sidewalks, such as the plaza outside the retail fronts on Granby at the World Trade Center Garage and the BofA platform. To me, having all of the buildings built out to the sidewalk line would create concrete canyons that are very unfriendly for pedestrians. I like the BofA site - the grass, bushes, and trees traverse by walkways. I appreciate density, but green space is important, too. If BofA were being built today, that "mini-park" would earn one LEED credit for maximizing open space.

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I appreciate the thought that went into your ideas, but you suggested a few things that would be very difficult to implement.

Putting retail on the ground floor of the Waterside Garage is a good idea, except the ground level of the garage is a few feet higher than the sidewalk on Waterside Drive, so there is no way for pedestrians to access the retail spaces. You cannot lower the floor level of the garage without exposing the foundations. So you would have to raise the elevation of Waterside Drive and the sidewalk, and still maintain the proper clearance under the pedestrian bridge.

Obviously without actual information on the garage, I can only make speculations...if I had constructions documents, I could make a much more exact assessment. But with that said, it would be possible to carve into the garage the needed feet, if there is any possibility of foundations being exposed, that would be dealt with in a number of ways, one including that it would then become an indoor space, thus treatment would be handled accordingly. Another key point is that there would be a possibility if needed to do ceiling work to the new addition that would be inserted into it to transfer weight loads. Again, more of an idea without actual details...I am not arguing what you are suggesting, I am just saying I would want more concrete information.

Rebuilding the platform at BofA is also difficult. There is important bank operations space under the platform on the south side (toward Waterside Drive). There is a driveway from Atlantic Street right beside the drive-in teller lanes. This driveway curves around and goes down under the platform. This is where the armored trucks bring in the money. Obviously, security is very, very tight there. I do not see BofA giving up their driveway or the platform above their loading dock.

Security being very, very tight is a loose term for that entrance...though this was all pre 9-11. I use to make deliveries that way and one could get in very easily that way...but then again it just leads you to the service elevators, the real security is that they are loading money indoors and not on the street. Though to expand on my point, the loading entrance would stay, the drive through teller would probably have to go or be dealt with in a different manner, which would be a simple task. The removal of the platform and making that a podium building, I was referring more to the portion that faces Main. For that it would require again to know what was under the platform because if there is important rooms under there, the feasibility of that becomes slim...though not impossible. The green space along the Waterside area could be dealt with in a number of ways. I was referring more to a 2-3 story building being built there to allow more interaction with the sidewalk, thus adding to the potential activity that could then happen there. Currently the open space is purely manmade, with that in mind, one could replace the open space with more manmade open space. By doing this there would be an option to allow a grassy courtyard to exist, as well as rooftop access to the new building where either a green roof can happen or hundreds of other options if this were to be a LEED idea....which I could easily score Gold with it if I were to do something for this....not bragging, just pointing out how easy it is to get LEED on a project.

Obviously I am not suggesting a solid structure to be built here, it is more of a suggestion and the only solid part would be retail facing Waterside.

You seem to want to eliminate all of the pedestrian plazas except for sidewalks, such as the plaza outside the retail fronts on Granby at the World Trade Center Garage and the BofA platform. To me, having all of the buildings built out to the sidewalk line would create concrete canyons that are very unfriendly for pedestrians. I like the BofA site - the grass, bushes, and trees traverse by walkways. I appreciate density, but green space is important, too. If BofA were being built today, that "mini-park" would earn one LEED credit for maximizing open space.

Actually on the contrary, the plaza that I am referring to is nothing more than an overhang from an oppressive garage, which if I am not mistaken, currently all those retail openings are being used as office space. If one wanted to make that apart of the Granby St activity, it would need to be pulled out towards the side walk to have a stronger connection to its surroundings.....now if there was a restaurant in that location and that overhang was being used as outdoor seating, then we would be having a much different conversation....well except for the redoing the facade on the garage, you cant tell me it looks good.

As for a "concrete canyon" that would only happen if I was one, suggesting this all be built out of concrete, and two, if I was suggesting these all be towers that are added. I am one who will argue against the idea of a tower over smart development. Any part of the map that is blue is recommending buildings to be built at about 2-4 stories....along such a wide road, they will not create any canyon effect.

Also, in my suggestions, I am pointing out how Waterside's plaza space along Waterside should be redone to be more connective to the surrounding areas and possibly make it more of a centerpiece for the area where cafes can spill out into it and allow for more mingling of people along the street side. If anything with that part, I would be suggesting the elimination of the drop off zone that is currently there...I think that is a bit excessive for Waterside.

As for LEED, this would also allow the city to move in a positive direction for sustainability, especially if the buildings focused on daylighting, natural cooling and heating, solar energy, green roofs, keeping rain water on site and/or the reuse of gray water.

Plus by making a move like this, it would bring the two sides of Waterside closer together.

besides, if I really got into it, I would be able to draw up a fully fleshed out idea that would make yourself pee a little bit. :P

Often times, the only way to move forward with a building that is currently seen as a problem is to look beyond what is currently there and begin to think about the what ifs....plus it helps that I am currently so far away. I cant see the area for what it is today in person, so I only remember it and from that, it is more of a free canvas to me....plus I have really been exposed to alot of "green" architecture out here.

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Another article about Waterside in today's Virginia Pilot...

http://hamptonroads.com/2009/02/norfolk-ci...uture-waterside

Reading those negative comments makes me believe tearing down and rebuilding Waterside or another venue is the way to go. I don't think there will ever be a casino in this area, but it will definitely bring in the foot traffic Downtown Norfolk needs. I don't believe a "band-aid" over the scar will be sufficient. Maybe they should use Va Beach Town Center as an example, but instead make it a mix of local restaurants and midscale/upscale destination restaurants like Maggiannos, P.F. Changs, etc., with a real Dave & Busters. I don't know what would be best but something needs to be done because they are putting too much money into Waterside but not retrieving enough back. What do you guys think?

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  • 1 month later...

Just saw a program tonight on Maryland Public Television about how Baltimore's Inner Harbor influenced cities throughout the world from Rotterdam to Sydney to Norfolk. About 10 minutes of the show was about Norfolk and how the Waterside changed the city. I am so against tearing down Waterside because it has become unique to Norfolk and is the one structure that is iconic to Norfolk. Waterside just needs to find that balance between shopping mall, food court and nightclub center. The city needs to make sure that the center is advertised properly along with Nauticus, the Wisconsin and the cruise center.

Here is the link to the MPTs webpage:

http://www.mpt.org/schedule/series.cfm?ser...id=16989#184890

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Just saw a program tonight on Maryland Public Television about how Baltimore's Inner Harbor influenced cities throughout the world from Rotterdam to Sydney to Norfolk. About 10 minutes of the show was about Norfolk and how the Waterside changed the city. I am so against tearing down Waterside because it has become unique to Norfolk and is the one structure that is iconic to Norfolk. Waterside just needs to find that balance between shopping mall, food court and nightclub center. The city needs to make sure that the center is advertised properly along with Nauticus, the Wisconsin and the cruise center.

I complete agree with you. I truly believe the one thing they can do to modernize and brighten the space (along with maybe retiling the floor, etc.) is to replace the ugly, outdate roof with a clear glass one. Maybe tint or frost it where the sun hits in the afternoon. This will brighten the space, allow people to look at the stars at night, and look much better and more modern from outside.

Couple that with a Hooters shuttle to Harbor Park, Scope, Constant Center, and beginning next fall, Foreman Field.

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  • 2 weeks later...

There is a lot of talk about what water side should be now and a lot of people say it should be family oriented like back in the day. So, what happened? I mean, if the family scene was running it, what happened? It was not like they allowed the bars to overtake the family feel. It's more likely that the family feel stop for some reason and the bar seen crept in. We have to examine that concept and see how we got to this point. I personally like Jillian

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There is a lot of talk about what water side should be now and a lot of people say it should be family oriented like back in the day. So, what happened? I mean, if the family scene was running it, what happened? It was not like they allowed the bars to overtake the family feel. It's more likely that the family feel stop for some reason and the bar seen crept in. We have to examine that concept and see how we got to this point. I personally like Jillian's and I honesty do not get the bar feel like most speak about (yet, I know what you mean). When I walk into water side, I see a dead food court (that's plenty family oriented). Having retail doesn't work there because of malls; the food court barely works there because of "malls". I mean think about it, no one comes to our downtown to go to waterside to shop; it's not realistic. There is nothing bustling about it. I think it bustled from the family feel back in the day because it was new and emerging, but the hype died down. Are we getting that confused with what would work and what won't? I personally think it's a stretch to assume someone would come to waterside of the strength that something would just being going on. It's a perfect setup when you look at it, its just not being used to its potential. Opening it up, hollowing it out means nothing. It's a 4 season venue in a 2 season area. Once upon a time, I thought it should be a high priced unique restaurant, then Jillian's came and I was like that's a cool concept. Eat, Drink, Play...and not just for the kiddies.

Waterside followed the concept of "festival retail" established by Roush at their other developments, most notably Harborplace in Baltimore. It worked well in some places (Faneuil Hall in Boston) and failed miserably in others (6th Street Marketplace in Richmond). (Please don't start another Richmond vs. Norfolk argument!) Waterside was somewhere between these extremes. It was a vibrant, bustling place at times in the late 80's and early 90's. It was even successful enough to expand the building. Originally, the western end of Waterside was near where the bridge from the parking garage enters the building. The part that now houses Hooters was an expansion. Eventually, though, some of the excitement wore off as the shops and the merchandise became stale. But it still had life.

So what killed Waterside? It was not that the festival retail concept was no longer viable. Waterside needed a pick-me-up, but it was far from the dead atmosphere we see today. About twelve years ago, the city of Norfolk decided to change the concept. Why? MacArthur Mall. Norfolk did not want retail at Waterside to compete with the new mall. Who knows? Perhaps the mall developers refused to even build the mall if the city was going to operate a competing mall at Waterside. So Waterside had to drop the festival retail concept, although by that time the festival part was pretty much non-existent anyway. It was just a small shopping mall of speciaty retailers.

Norfolk had to do something with Waterside, though. If I recall, they hired a consultant (don't they always?) and based on the consultant's recommendation, they decided to turn Waterside into a dining and entertainment venue. It seemed like a reasonable idea that would be compatible with the marina and Town Point Park, and still be a part of the downtown experience. It was hoped that the new concept would continue to draw customers, but not compete with their new baby, MacArthur Mall. We now know that it was not successful.

Even though Waterside is now on life support, overall I would say the city made a good trade to get MacArthur, even if it hurt Waterside. If you disagree, just look at the 1968 photo posted on the Norfolk History thread today. That vacant parking lot between the MacArthur Memorial and the church is now MacArthur Mall. And there is still hope for Waterside. The city may still hit on a concept for Waterside to revive it.

That is how Waterside got to where it is today (at least as I remember it). I hope this gives you a better perspective of what happened.

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It's too bad that the new cruise ship terminal wasn't built next to Waterside.....

They might have had something there.....

What I'm trying to get at is: There isn't anything achoring Waterside.

Does anyone remember when a developer wanted to put a hotel next to waterside? maybe that wasn't a bad idea after all! :dontknow:

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We should compleatly redo waterside.

I agree with the idea of redoing waterside, but I do not agree with the tearing it down. Norfolk has torn down way too much of its past and even though Waterside is only 26 years old it represents an important part of Norfolk's past and is somewhat easily recognizable. I think the redo could include opening up the building to allow more sunlight to stream in. The first floor should include sort of a bazaar with antiques and other goods as well as a produce and meat market. The concept has been tried before in Norfolk with Bessie's place and before Harborpark replaced it I remember it being successful. Sprinkle in some mom and pop stores, leave Joe's Crab Shack and Hooters on the first floor and keep Bar Norfolk and that New Orleans bar along with Jillians on the second floor. This would make Waterside very similar to the popular and successful Harborplace in Baltimore. Waterside is unique and every time I come down to Norfolk it is a must see.

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Waterside will someday return as a viable piece of property, with some kind of redo. However, if you want to see a vaguely similar area, developed by the same Rouse company, trek up to Baltimore's Inner Harbor, if some may have not done already. I'm really envious. It has a very real natural advantage in that it (the area, not just the single Harborplace building) is kinda horseshoe shaped around the water rather than straight across as is the Waterside area, and in that it has no pedestrian barrier to its access as Waterside unfortunately has with Waterside Drive. Talk about bustling, their area is I'd say 10 times as big and active as our Waterside area, and no matter what our redo becomes, those two built-in advantages that Inner Harbor has will probably keep it ahead for a long time to come. That being said, the Norfolk waterfront is still an amazing testament to progress, and still has room to improve considerably. The more Portsmouth continues with its waterfront development, the more will be added to the Waterside area experience and feel as well. Come to think of it, if Portsmouth, Waterside, Harbor park waterfront, Fort Norfolk waterfront, SoNo, etc. keep developing, our overall downtown waterfront experience may even someday eclipse Baltimore's!

Edited by ffjjjj
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Waterside will someday return as a viable piece of property, with some kind of redo. However, if you want to see a vaguely similar area, developed by the same Rouse company, trek up to Baltimore's Inner Harbor, if some may have not done already. I'm really envious. It has a very real natural advantage in that it (the area, not just the single Harborplace building) is kinda horseshoe shaped around the water rather than straight across as is the Waterside area, and in that it has no pedestrian barrier to its access as Waterside unfortunately has with Waterside Drive. Talk about bustling, their area is I'd say 10 times as big and active as our Waterside area, and no matter what our redo becomes, those two built-in advantages that Inner Harbor has will probably keep it ahead for a long time to come. That being said, the Norfolk waterfront is still an amazing testament to progress, and still has room to improve considerably. The more Portsmouth continues with its waterfront development, the more will be added to the Waterside area experience and feel as well. Come to think of it, if Portsmouth, Waterside, Harbor park waterfront, Fort Norfolk waterfront, SoNo, etc. keep developing, our overall downtown waterfront experience may even someday eclipse Baltimore's!

And with Baltimore, you can

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Waterside will someday return as a viable piece of property, with some kind of redo. However, if you want to see a vaguely similar area, developed by the same Rouse company, trek up to Baltimore's Inner Harbor, if some may have not done already. I'm really envious. It has a very real natural advantage in that it (the area, not just the single Harborplace building) is kinda horseshoe shaped around the water rather than straight across as is the Waterside area, and in that it has no pedestrian barrier to its access as Waterside unfortunately has with Waterside Drive. Talk about bustling, their area is I'd say 10 times as big and active as our Waterside area, and no matter what our redo becomes, those two built-in advantages that Inner Harbor has will probably keep it ahead for a long time to come. That being said, the Norfolk waterfront is still an amazing testament to progress, and still has room to improve considerably. The more Portsmouth continues with its waterfront development, the more will be added to the Waterside area experience and feel as well. Come to think of it, if Portsmouth, Waterside, Harbor park waterfront, Fort Norfolk waterfront, SoNo, etc. keep developing, our overall downtown waterfront experience may even someday eclipse Baltimore's!

Norfolk's Waterside has certain advantages that Baltimore's inner harbor does not have such as huge cruise ships docking next door at the Half Moon Cruise Center not to mention the sight of huge Naval Ships at the Nofolk Naval Hospital. Baltimore's Inner Harbor has way too much concrete for my taste. Town Point park gives the area a nice natural feel with grass and trees. I think there are somethings Waterside can take from Harborplace, but I don't think it needs to mimic the inner Harbor. It needs to continue to be unique to Norfolk and relect the local community.

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