Waterside District

[cityboi757]

That is true brikkman. Only problem is the darkness, the smell, and the dirty bathrooms.

[urbanlife]

That is true brikkman. Only problem is the darkness, the smell, and the dirty bathrooms.

I am guessing it is a steel frame building, thus walls are mostly removable to bring in more light...the roof could easily take on more modifications for this as well.

In Portland, they renovated a building that originally reeked of 30+ yr old pee...strangely enough, it no longer reeks of pee...so I am guessing the smell can be taken care of there as well.

Renovations are your friend, and all across this country dirty bathrooms have been ripped out and replaced with shiny new ones...they did that to a building on campus right by my house...the original bathroom was disgusting...the new version of that same bathroom, I could feel comfortable taking a poo in there.

[varider]

Brikkman I like your idea. I went to Richmond today visiting family and they have this farmers market (I already forgot the name) right on the edge of downtown near shokoe slip (I think that's the name) where they come and swap raw goods on the weekends. It doesn't look like much and the surrounding neighborhood looks sorta run down (I heard they are converting warehouses around there into low rent apartments), but something as simple as that draws people from surrounding neighborhoods to come interact with each other and get a few of their weekly groceries. Now I'm not saying that's what Norfolk should do with Waterside (It would be nice for Fort Norfolk), but I'm adding on to your idea that the simplest things can do so much.

Right now Waterside is just an unclean, dirty food court (Hooters, Joe's, Outback, Jillian's). As has been said over and over again on this forum, Waterside needs something different to bring people from the surrounding communities (no I'm not talking about Tidewater Park) to the downtown waterfront. Just being a food court with mediocre restaurants is not going to do that. If you live in Virginia Beach, why would you go to downtown Norfolk to eat at Hooters when you have plenty of Hooters in Virginia Beach? Just being on the water isn't unique enough because every city in HR has a picturesque waterfront. When there are events like Harborfest and Afram, Waterside does good business. The question is, What needs to be done for it to be hoppin' 24-7?

A lady on the news said she wished we had the Williamsburg Outlets at Waterside. That's obviously not going to happen. Our beloved mayor said that he and City Council will be looking at alternatives for the waterfront and they will be looking for public input in the coming months. We need that unique draw to bring people from all over the seven cities to downtown Norfolk. What that thing may be? I have no idea.

[brikkman]

Brikkman I like your idea. I went to Richmond today visiting family and they have this farmers market (I already forgot the name) right on the edge of downtown near shokoe slip (I think that's the name) where they come and swap raw goods on the weekends. It doesn't look like much and the surrounding neighborhood looks sorta run down (I heard they are converting warehouses around there into low rent apartments), but something as simple as that draws people from surrounding neighborhoods to come interact with each other and get a few of their weekly groceries. Now I'm not saying that's what Norfolk should do with Waterside (It would be nice for Fort Norfolk), but I'm adding on to your idea that the simplest things can do so much.

Right now Waterside is just an unclean, dirty food court (Hooters, Joe's, Outback, Jillian's). As has been said over and over again on this forum, Waterside needs something different to bring people from the surrounding communities (no I'm not talking about Tidewater Park) to the downtown waterfront. Just being a food court with mediocre restaurants is not going to do that. If you live in Virginia Beach, why would you go to downtown Norfolk to eat at Hooters when you have plenty of Hooters in Virginia Beach? Just being on the water isn't unique enough because every city in HR has a picturesque waterfront. When there are events like Harborfest and Afram, Waterside does good business. The question is, What needs to be done for it to be hoppin' 24-7?

A lady on the news said she wished we had the Williamsburg Outlets at Waterside. That's obviously not going to happen. Our beloved mayor said that he and City Council will be looking at alternatives for the waterfront and they will be looking for public input in the coming months. We need that unique draw to bring people from all over the seven cities to downtown Norfolk. What that thing may be? I have no idea.

Well, I think the condo thing is a real possibility if you ask me (or maybe apt). It is what the people of DT norfolk would prefer over any other thing. If you looked at the post, they have always said and advocated crazy things like rec centers, condo's or markets at waterside. Those things are coming for those individuals, not from people who want to see the city of Norfolk turn the corner. I do not think the essence of Joes, Hooters, Outback and Jillians are unattractive and/or does not command a bunch of people, I think it is the overall appeal of waterside that keeps those places from thriving. Went through there this weekend just to check it out, dead as a door knob. Jilllians is always jumping, outback is, ummmmmmm par at best. You can forget everything else as non of it has a chance to survive anyways. I have never known any other city who has had so much trouble developing their waterfront into something people love to come to....EVER. Even portsmouth is having it easty because they have the beautiful view of DT Norfolk, we have part shipyard, part good view of Portsmouth.

I think 24-7 hoppin/poppin as you suggested will not happen until they formulate districts. Too many conflicting interest as DT currently stands. One half wants to see it happen and the other half is like no wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy.

[Telmnstr]

Too many overpriced apartments already. Don't need more. Don't need more condo crap either.

They are trying to change waterside. Acoustic music concerts and puppet shows.

I never remember the place as fun. The fudgery was odd, in a "I don't know to make of this" sense but as a youth tailing my parents around that place, I dreaded it. The kite shop was kind of neat.

Turn it into an aquarium :-)

[brikkman]

Too many overpriced apartments already. Don't need more. Don't need more condo crap either.

They are trying to change waterside. Acoustic music concerts and puppet shows.

I never remember the place as fun. The fudgery was odd, in a "I don't know to make of this" sense but as a youth tailing my parents around that place, I dreaded it. The kite shop was kind of neat.

Turn it into an aquarium :-)

I remember the kite shop. I use to want one until I got old enough to afford one, then figured I was not interested anymore.

[Telmnstr]

If Norfolk wants to win, they need to get rid of the poor people.

Seriously.

[ronsmytheiii]

If Norfolk wants to win, they need to get rid of the poor people.

Seriously.

Which is the wrong way of looking at things, the best way would be to bring in more middle to upper class and diffuse the poor. There is nothing wrong with having poor in your city, they should just not have extreme segregation where things like illicit trade and organized crime can thrive. The poor need a place to live, pushing them out only moves the problem.

[urbanlife]

please tell me we are not back to the topic of why the poor is not a disease.

[freshmusic1]

If Norfolk wants to win, they need to get rid of the poor people.

Seriously.

Hey guys. I'm the new kid on the block. Been reading the post on this sight every day and I feel your frustration. I just don't agree with " get rid of poor people". If you look at thriving metro areas in our country, you will see that poor people exist everwhere. Poor people have a right to live here as well as anyone else. Those of us who are stronger financially need to find a legitimate non-profit organization and give of our time and money to help out. You never know when you might be on the other end of financial dispare, especially with the current economy. We all need to be held accountable for pulling our own weight, including poor people. I'm all for Norfolk's expanitial growth, but not at the expense of the poor.

[vdogg]

If Norfolk wants to win, they need to get rid of the poor people.

Seriously.

Not only has this topic been beat to death on this forum, but it is wildly off-topic for the "Waterside Marketplace" thread. Lets move on please.

[mlsimons]

If Norfolk wants to win, they need to get rid of the poor people.

Seriously.

"For ye have the poor with you always..."

Jesus said that.

Mark 14:7

[freshmusic1]

Not only has this topic been beat to death on this forum, but it is wildly off-topic for the "Waterside Marketplace" thread. Lets move on please.

I heard that. I'm new to Urbanplanet so I didn't know it had been covered so much. Just have a soft spot for the "Underdog". Love a good comeback story. In a way, Waterside is gonna be like a comeback story if the city of Norfolk would pay attention to some of the ideas you guys have been sharing on this thread. I remember when Waterside first opened up. It was an exciting time for Norfolk. Before that, there was a dinner-cruise boat docked there. The boat would always advertise dinner and a cruise, but it would never leave the dock because it was mechanically unable to. There was no Townpoint Park either. Very dark and dangerous at night. Unfortunately, Waterside has to share the spotlight with Mac Center, Nauticus and Granby st now. Not to mention all the other attractions downtown. They need to clean it up and tie it into activities in the park. I think ESPNzone would be nice in there.

[skylinefan]

I heard that. I'm new to Urbanplanet so I didn't know it had been covered so much. Just have a soft spot for the "Underdog". Love a good comeback story. In a way, Waterside is gonna be like a comeback story if the city of Norfolk would pay attention to some of the ideas you guys have been sharing on this thread. I remember when Waterside first opened up. It was an exciting time for Norfolk. Before that, there was a dinner-cruise boat docked there. The boat would always advertise dinner and a cruise, but it would never leave the dock because it was mechanically unable to. There was no Townpoint Park either. Very dark and dangerous at night. Unfortunately, Waterside has to share the spotlight with Mac Center, Nauticus and Granby st now. Not to mention all the other attractions downtown. They need to clean it up and tie it into activities in the park. I think ESPNzone would be nice in there.

Welcome to the forum freshmusic1, I agree an ESPNzone would do quite well in Waterside. An entertainment complex with ESPN Zone coupled with Jillians pool hall and yes Hooters would reposition Waterside as a sports oriented venue. To attract families, couples and others not attracted to bars a farmers market and bazarre on the first floor would do the trick. This would make Waterside unique in the area and may attract people from surrounding communities to the waterfront.

[lil-bear]

Welcome to the forum freshmusic1, I agree an ESPNzone would do quite well in Waterside. An entertainment complex with ESPN Zone coupled with Jillians pool hall and yes Hooters would reposition Waterside as a sports oriented venue. To attract families, couples and others not attracted to bars a farmers market and bazarre on the first floor would do the trick. This would make Waterside unique in the area and may attract people from surrounding communities to the waterfront.

I agree, an ESPNzone would be wonderful.

What about HardRock Cafe?

The city should agressively persue these types of places!

Not too sure about the farm market or bazzare....

[varider]

I agree, an ESPNzone would be wonderful.

What about HardRock Cafe?

The city should agressively persue these types of places!

Not too sure about the farm market or bazzare....

Yeah, a ESPN zone or HardRock would definately draw everyone from the 757 to downtown Norfolk. Probably people from all over the country. I'm sure if the city actually tried they would be successful drawing somethig like that.

[brikkman]

I agree, an ESPNzone would be wonderful.

What about HardRock Cafe?

The city should agressively persue these types of places!

Not too sure about the farm market or bazzare....

I think jillians is great for waterside. If Norfolk has an ESPN Zone, I think it should be dockside/riverside near harbor park over looking that section of the river. It would tie into the need sports/entertainment growth in that area. Expand on the potential the area can be, and jillians will not compete, because honestly they are one in the same in concept......sort of. I can get down with hardrock being at waterside, I always thought waterside should have been a huge expensive restaurant.

And I agree, it does need to tie into TPP.

[varider]

Sometimes I wish I lived in a big city and didn't have to worry about things such as attracting ESPN zone's and stuff.

But, brikkman that's a great idea.

Extend the 'boardwalk' to Harbor Park from Waterside, build an ESPN zone overlooking the water, a couple 5-10 floor apartment/ condo buildings, some goood restaurants, build a parking garage, and there you have a draw.

Don't forget the LRT station too.

Edited September 19, 2009 by varider

[freshmusic1]

I live in Chicago right now, but I will be moving back to Norfolk in the middle of next year. I went to the ESPNZONE here a few years back to watch the Redskins vs the Giants and I had a ball. The place was packed and there was so much to do. They had all of the local sports teams represented in the decor of the Zone. They had batting cages, punt, pass and kicking games. TV's everywhere. Very family oriented. I can see all the local Norfolk sports teams represented in Norfolk. Admirals, Tides, ODU, Norfolk state, Redskins etc. The place would be packed on a regular bases. HR is ready to be a sports town.(Look at ODU's recent turnout) And there are only a select number of cities with EZONE so if we can pull it off, it would definately help bring Norfolk to the next level.

[brikkman]

Was listening to the radio on my way in today. I believe I heard a report saying that waterside was going to host teen parties once a month. Security will assure that nothing happens, bla bhlah blah. I did not catch where it would be hosted, I just assume it will be in one of the two closed bars. It is geared towards changing waterside's tarnished image.....

So we got our answer I suppose. Sounds like a rush job to do something, they will hold these events once a month the reporter said.

Could not find anything on pilot regarding this.

Ok, found it: Waterside's New Idea.....

Edited September 23, 2009 by brikkman

[Telmnstr]

Oh man. Too strange.

The problem with Norfolk is the poor people. Get rid of those and it will improve.

[freshmusic1]

Oh man. Too strange.

The problem with Norfolk is the poor people. Get rid of those and it will improve.

You make it sound as if poor people are like roaches. Man you need to let that go. Pride comes before a fall, so watch out!! Anyway like it was said, this thread is not about the plight of the poor so why do you keep bringing it up?

[urbanlife]

You make it sound as if poor people are like roaches. Man you need to let that go. Pride comes before a fall, so watch out!! Anyway like it was said, this thread is not about the plight of the poor so why do you keep bringing it up?

Exactly, poor people have nothing to do with a poorly developed waterfront and a poorly used building. Many cities have figured out how to use their waterfronts better, Norfolk has yet to really grab hold of that. I was in nyc this week and I have to say, I could see Norflok's waterfront being more like Battery Park City...in a much, much, much smaller scale of course. But walking around that area, especially along the water reminded me of what it use to be like when I lived Virginia. Battery Park City is infill that use to be home to a ton of old docks along the waterfront, which is identical to Norfolk.

But for the city to actually make something like this work for the city, it needs to look at the waterfront to Main St as a whole and not a bunch of independent pieces. So the true failure with Waterside Marketplace has more to do with the fact that it is currently acting and being treated as an independent building from its surroundings.

[skylinefan]

I don't necessarily see Waterside as a failure if anything it was the catalyst that totally remade Norfolk's waterfront. I saw a documentary about Baltimore's Harborplace and festival marketplaces around the country and world inspired by it. They highlighted Norfolk's waterside as one of the successful festival marketplaces in small to medium size cities. Waterside is simply showing its age and to me needs yet another reconfiguration to better fit into the Downtown Norfolk of today. I think what is lacking is a viable year round farmer's market and bazarre (antiques, paintings, prints etc.) mixed in with national entertainment and sports chains like Jillian's Pool Hall, Hooters and ESPN Zone. This would truly make Waterside unique and different then anything else in the area. I like the idea of bringing back daily entertainment to the center part of the mall and putting the farmer's market and bazarre where the eating establishments are located. Maybe keep Outback and Joe's Crab Shack in their current location. Look Norfolk has a first rate Waterfront that I actually like better then the concrete of Baltimore's Inner Harbor. Just spruce up and lighten up Waterside's interior to make it more airy and inviting.

[Padman]

I agree with the last post. I've always found Norfolk's waterfront scenery much more interesting than Baltimore's harbor. We just can't draw from a huge megalopolis the way Baltimore can. I'd like to see at least one fine restaurant with a waterfront view in the Waterside complex, or something like the No Frill Grill there. For me and for my family, Phillips WAS Waterside, even though it was a little overpriced.