Waterside District

[brikkman]

Pretty much the only idea I like is demolishing the Food court to have an outdoor venue, none of the attractions really engage me. To me it would be better to have a farmers market in the outdoor patio and maybe that basketball court but reconfigurable. Use the top floor as city office space,None of this carnival stuff

I just want to ask this, but for the immediate future, do people really believe a "basketball court" is worth having in an area that houses about 4000 people?

There is no way I am paying to park to come down by the water to play basketball outside where the wind kicks off the water constantly making basketball undesirable.

[usermel]

Trust me, we dont even need a basketball court of any sort in that location. Whatever they do in that place has to add to the local economy and should have a splash effect to it when it opens that draws all of Norfolk and surrounding Hampton Roads as Waterside once did. I don't have the answer but, the basketball idea can be potential trouble. I'm a HUGE basketball fan by the way but, Norfolk needs great attractions that enhance the downtown Norfolk experience and amaze or at least delight out of town visitors. If it's visitors from cruise ships that stop in Norfolk or visitors for business or family and even vacations we need things to amaze folks so when they go home they talk about what Norfolk has to offer. A basketball facility of any sort won't suffice to help Norfolk become a future major city. L.G.N.M

[jaypee757]

With regards to NORFOLK signage on the waterfront - this has already been done. This giant neon sign is visible from the river and is located on the back of the Half Moone cruise facility.

[brikkman]

Thought I add this useless video/article...An online survey and meeting to come up with this:

http://www.fox43tv.com/dpps/news/local/norfolk-asks-what-to-do-with-waterside_3582006

[virginia pe]

Thought I add this useless video/article...An online survey and meeting to come up with this:

http://www.fox43tv.c...terside_3582006

Well, you were right. It was useless. But thanks for posting it anyway.

[BFG]

AltDaily says that the city is once again considering tearing down Waterside. They don't know what they want to do with that place anymore SMH.

With the Westin being put on hold, I think converting that to a convention center would be a decent idea. Maybe even keep a couple of restaurants on one side, put convention space on the other (esp. where Jillian's, Have a Nice Day, and Bar Norfolk used to be). Also consider it a light rail hub of sorts. You have two major hotels, one right next door, the other is attached to your building. A convention center would be very convenient and could even work hand in hand with hotel guests...

If they think tearing it down is the answer, then they're not thinking hard enough...

[brikkman]

I guess I'm the only one who believes that 60% of waterside's problem sits in the understanding that it is essentially a stand alone food court (and setup). I know of no other place anywhere that has a stand alone food court. They are usually attached to other attractions that people are coming to see (eg., mall, museums, ball game, etc..). Considering it was NOTHING to do at waterside but eat, the best bet was to get first rate restaurants to occupy the venue. But guess what??? It was set up like a food court, so bam there is your problem. People always talk about how it was back in the day and why it was so great back in the day. It wasn't because of the fudgery, it wasn't because of any of those things, it was because it was new. Anything new will draw people attention for at least a little while. At least back then, the city was an active participant of the venue and allowed people to perform on stage and provided entertainment for people, even if it wasn't your cup of tea. My opinion, you have two simple options:

1. The city sits aside an entertainment fund and have acts of all types perform throughout the week - this will draw people to waterside to pay the parking and eat whatever decides to pop up.

2. Tear it down, build a building that is more adaptive to change, gatherings, entertainment and yes that has a family friendly touch.

[VbOrf tplnt]

It looks like Waterside will stay after all, but will get a major facelift:

http://www.wvec.com/news/Report-Keep-Waterside-but-give-it-a-facelift-113235779.html

I hope it can be restored to its former glory and more. I went by it earlier tonight and it looked deserted, what a shame.

[skylinefan]

I for one hope that the city accepts the recommendation of the consultants and keep Waterside a festival marketplace. Extensive renovations should include opening up the side facing the water so that people strolling within Waterside can have unobstructed views of the river where there are not restaurants, bars or shops. I still feel that a farmers or flee market would work great on the first floor with more local mom and pop stores surrounding the market. A mix of national chain retail and restaurants should flank the second floor of Waterside. The city should try to lure retailers and restaurants that are not found anyplace else in Hampton Roads. I think that this sort of mix with entertainment on the first floor will bring Waterside back to its glory days of the 1980s.

[usermel]

Yeah, good points skylinefan. They save it, and renovate it maybe a HUGE reopening will excite the locals. I would hate to lose Waterside. I said, in another thread it is a historical landmark due to what it did to give downtown a pulse pre-MacArthur Center. There would be no MacArthur I THINK if Waterside didn't hold things down until it came about in 1999! Waterside used to be so packed its hard to see it as is now. The hard sell will be to get folks back there now after it died down. Its hard unless something visual draws folks back. Hope they save it but, if they dont I hope they put something that will last over 100 years or better. LGNM

[usermel]

Just saw the link, good news. The violence did damage to folks like me who no longer would go there and the club thing was a mistake as well. I was younger when they started the club thing but, didnt like it at all. Some folks go to bars and clubs just to make trouble, trust me, I hung with folks like that when I was younger. Waterside now that I think of it when it was the place to be was family friendly. As I think back little by little the family thing was wore down and down and thats how it got here and folks never returned. Seems like a good place to go. I been to Outback 1 time there and thats it. I havent been there in years cause of the past violence and havent got that out of my mind, I must be candid and admit that! Im part why it has suffered and if changes are made will support it more and try to do so before these changes. Im guilty of abandoning the Waterside when it left its family friendly theme also. The Fudgery started the decline from it being a family place and just went down and down from there to me, not others just what started keeping me away then the bars/clubs. I saw Jullians as becoming to club like as well!!!LGNM

[urbanlife]

Just saw the link, good news. The violence did damage to folks like me who no longer would go there and the club thing was a mistake as well. I was younger when they started the club thing but, didnt like it at all. Some folks go to bars and clubs just to make trouble, trust me, I hung with folks like that when I was younger. Waterside now that I think of it when it was the place to be was family friendly. As I think back little by little the family thing was wore down and down and thats how it got here and folks never returned. Seems like a good place to go. I been to Outback 1 time there and thats it. I havent been there in years cause of the past violence and havent got that out of my mind, I must be candid and admit that! Im part why it has suffered and if changes are made will support it more and try to do so before these changes. Im guilty of abandoning the Waterside when it left its family friendly theme also. The Fudgery started the decline from it being a family place and just went down and down from there to me, not others just what started keeping me away then the bars/clubs. I saw Jullians as becoming to club like as well!!!LGNM

I always thought the nightclub route was a stupid idea, I remember going there once cause a few friends wanted to go and it felt like going to a mall of clubs. Nightclubs should feel individual and unique among the other nightclubs in town, not feel like it is a place where you go shopping.

[brikkman]

I for one hope that the city accepts the recommendation of the consultants and keep Waterside a festival marketplace. Extensive renovations should include opening up the side facing the water so that people strolling within Waterside can have unobstructed views of the river where there are not restaurants, bars or shops. I still feel that a farmers or flee market would work great on the first floor with more local mom and pop stores surrounding the market. A mix of national chain retail and restaurants should flank the second floor of Waterside. The city should try to lure retailers and restaurants that are not found anyplace else in Hampton Roads. I think that this sort of mix with entertainment on the first floor will bring Waterside back to its glory days of the 1980s.

Nah, tear it down and make it a more inviting and adaptive structure, you will get more results that way. I think the questions that should be asked is:

1. Will mom and pop attract people to causal stroll to waterside if you do not live in DT?

2. Whatever they decide to do, is it worth paying to park?

Which is the main reason why it should be done with harbor park inmind. That should be an entire area of redevelopment.

[Telmnstr]

Waterside's lack of parking hurts it greatly.

I always thought the light rail should have been elevated in downtown and stopped at the 2nd floors of MacArthur and Waterside.

[urbanlife]

Waterside's lack of parking hurts it greatly.

I always thought the light rail should have been elevated in downtown and stopped at the 2nd floors of MacArthur and Waterside.

There is a large parking garage across the street, with several parking garages within a couple blocks of this building...why would that be an issue? I don't remember it ever being an issue when I use to live there.

Also elevated rail would of been a bad idea mostly because of cost, but how would you run rail, even elevated, to downtown by Waterside, then through the MacArthur's 2nd floor, and then back out the hospital? That would be a complex project that would more than likely involve extensive construction and massive modifications to buildings along the route, as well as a weird dip through downtown. I am all for being able to dream about these "what if" projects, but this one would be crazy expensive and more than likely impossible to do.

[brikkman]

There is a large parking garage across the street, with several parking garages within a couple blocks of this building...why would that be an issue? I don't remember it ever being an issue when I use to live there.

Also elevated rail would of been a bad idea mostly because of cost, but how would you run rail, even elevated, to downtown by Waterside, then through the MacArthur's 2nd floor, and then back out the hospital? That would be a complex project that would more than likely involve extensive construction and massive modifications to buildings along the route, as well as a weird dip through downtown. I am all for being able to dream about these "what if" projects, but this one would be crazy expensive and more than likely impossible to do.

Even more reason why the MacArther Station sh ould have been grand...

[Telmnstr]

There is a large parking garage across the street, with several parking garages within a couple blocks of this building...why would that be an issue? I don't remember it ever being an issue when I use to live there.

Also elevated rail would of been a bad idea mostly because of cost, but how would you run rail, even elevated, to downtown by Waterside, then through the MacArthur's 2nd floor, and then back out the hospital? That would be a complex project that would more than likely involve extensive construction and massive modifications to buildings along the route, as well as a weird dip through downtown. I am all for being able to dream about these "what if" projects, but this one would be crazy expensive and more than likely impossible to do.

Could of just gone to Waterside, then over to the mall or something. I dunno, they can figure it out. They put crazy tight turns in on Bute Street.

Or split the directions.

People don't want to walk! Also, the parking costs money. And not everyone carries around cash.

[urbanlife]

Even more reason why the MacArther Station sh ould have been grand...

There are currently two stops outside of the mall, can't people just walk across the street?

Could of just gone to Waterside, then over to the mall or something. I dunno, they can figure it out. They put crazy tight turns in on Bute Street.

Or split the directions.

People don't want to walk! Also, the parking costs money. And not everyone carries around cash.

If "they" would of figured out something to do a path that went to Waterside, then over to MacArthure, then "everyone else" would be even more pissed about the bloated cost of this and the extra amount of damage it would of caused, the only way it would of run to Waterside is if it ran down Waterside Ave, then up Boush, but then it would of skipped the heart of downtown. The current path has it running through the heart of the city, which is the more important route.

Why not build a steetcar loop that goes through Waterside to the Museum and everything in between, that would be more efficient for downtown, but still would come with a hefty price tag.

The current downtown is less than a few square miles, if people don't like walking (which is why we have a problem with overweight people in this country) then why would they want to go downtown in the first place? Should every building downtown have a parking garage so that no one has to walk anywhere, when you want to go a couple blocks away, just hope in your car and drive to the next garage? Also should parking be free? What cities have you been to that had free parking downtown besides the VBTC which has to do free parking or everyone would just park in the suburban mall parking lot across the street. No real downtown has free parking garages because parking garages are not free to begin with, they are actually really expensive.

[brikkman]

Just an update:

http://insidebiz.com/news/norfolk-talks-about-waterside

I think at least half of it should be torn down. I guess I can understand why they would want to keep part of it. For me however, I think they should tear down half and build up on the part they tear down. This will help add some uniqueness to the site and make it a true destination. Again, I do not think you do this without including the harbor park corridor, but I’m sure they are not considering that. That entire area needs to be made a destination, not just waterside. Waterside, the size in of itself its not big enough with the influx of people to make it a real destination IMO.

[urbanlife]

I agree, I think the city need to look at the whole waterfront area of downtown as if it is the Grant Park or Central Park for the city and design something that comes off as a gathering area and has the feeling of being what truly shapes downtown and is fully apart of the rest of the city. I think for this to happen there would need to be a major reconstruction of Waterside, whether any of it needs to come down or not would depend on what would be built there. I think the hotel that sits next to Waterside would need a full renovation and restructuring of the first level to fit in with an overall park better than it currently does, and I think it is important to extend this waterfront park as far as they can in each direction, all the way to Harbor Park and possibly building a pedestrian bridge to Fort Norfolk to extend that into the rest of the city.

[Mos]

Just an update:

http://insidebiz.com...about-waterside

I think at least half of it should be torn down. I guess I can understand why they would want to keep part of it. For me however, I think they should tear down half and build up on the part they tear down. This will help add some uniqueness to the site and make it a true destination. Again, I do not think you do this without including the harbor park corridor, but I’m sure they are not considering that. That entire area needs to be made a destination, not just waterside. Waterside, the size in of itself its not big enough with the influx of people to make it a real destination IMO.

I think if they can find a way to relocate current businesses closer to the Harbor Park Multi Model Transportation Center (Wright Station), they could open up this area for redevelopment with little outcry. Done right, it could be pretty exciting.

[zeppelin14]

That article looked recycled. Same old same old......

[brikkman]

boohoo:

http://hamptonroads.com/2011/09/waterside-should-be-run-company-city-manager-says#comment-1189393

[zeppelin14]

The city spent $27,000 for 5 people to state their opinion to let private builders take Waterside over. What a way to spend tax payers money.

[mistermetaj]

The city spent $27,000 for 5 people to state their opinion to let private builders take Waterside over. What a way to spend tax payers money.

They should just leave it and let the GSA convert it to their space. That way an already dead zone can stay a dead zone and norfolk can have the granby tower site for future development.

Or, just tear the whole thing down and expand TPP.