Waterside District

[baobabs727]

3 hours ago, vdogg said:

Trying the local today. 9 wings, a meatball cup, and dessert...$27. Figured I'd get a drink while I'm at it. A CAN of Sprite...$3. Said no thanks and changed my order to go. These prices are nowhere near justifiable.

Before or after tax? You know how ridiculously high our taxes are for restaurant. I think it's 11.5-12%?

I would tend to agree with you.  That's pricey. Depending on portion size, that should've been around $23-$25, incl. the soda...AFTER tax.

I went to CPK @MacArthur last night and paid $3.29 for a Dr. Pepper fountain drink. Totally ridiculous, but at least there were free refills.

If you go to Nordstrom Café, which I recommend, and order an entrée salad or a smallish sandwich or a clay oven fired personal pizza... plus a cup of soup to mimic your meatball course...plus a dessert and a fountain drink, and you're looking at around $28-$33 AFTER tax. 

What I'm saying is that it's damned expensive to eat out these days, especially downtown. Sucks but true.

Edited May 27, 2017 by baobabs727

[brikkman]

6 hours ago, likeminded said:

I hate to disagree (actually, no, it's rather fun to debate these ideas) but don't think it was that, either, at least not entirely.  I believe there were myriad factors, and it's probably more complex than any single post, but lemme try anyway.
First, the mix of establishments wasn't special.  Some restaurants, like Outback, Joe's, and Hooters, that you could go to elsewhere.  A cruddy food court.  A few boutiques that were irrelevant once MacArthur center opened. And bars - like Bar Norfolk and Have A Nice Day -   that were not nice places to enjoy an "adult beverage" but places designed to go get wasted and rowdy and had nothing else to offer (unlike someplace like Blue Moon, which is upscale, has some nice food, and isn't "seedy".)  Add to that the danger element and lack of good entertainment - plus the fact that the design did little to really make use of the water views.  One of the few exceptions to some of this was Jillian's, but it lost its luster fairly quickly.  You also had a downtown that wasn't nearly as vibrant back then.  Now, with new offices and new residential space, it's really experiencing a true gentrification.
The new Waterside is vastly different.  Way more upscale.  It will capitalize on the new dynamic in DT Norfolk.  I like what they've done.  Still a little pricey for me - and I don't drink much, so way more interested in the food options, but the "food court" is definitely not like a typical mall.  Totally different vibe.  I give it at least an A- and I think Cordish has a winner on their hands.

Perhaps you were thinking what I was with much more detail, but eh, I can agree with that. That's pretty much what I had in my mind summed up. I do believe however, the phase of Bar Norfolk and Have a nice day was WS 2.0. At that point WS was truly teetering and the other cities had truly established themselves as competition. Unlike many, I agree with the move to add the bars when the city decide not to provide any entertainment to bring people into WS.  The shops and boutiques were always an after thought. I don't know of anyone who traveled to waterside just to shop; many came for other things and may have picked up things while they were there. But if you remember in the very beginning, at least it was a cruddy food court with entertainment.  That stopped around the late 80s early 90s, I remember this vividly as it was the only thing me and my mom did growing up when she had the day off. We would make the walk from Huntersville.  I agree Jullians was unique in nature. It was hard to see them leave, even the owner admitted he didn't want to leave on TV, but he was left with no choice as the city had no vision for DT. It seems like he was beholden to DT, but as far as I know, they are doing pretty well at Lynnhaven Mall as far as I know.  It was the last place I ate before I left the area with friends.

I'im glad the new WS is better. I was skeptical, I really wanted them to demo the site and rebuild. The design is just poor, even here in bmore that design sucks, but that is over shadowed by activity. Trust and believe, its just as funky, just as dingy, all of those things here in the inner harbor, but the difference is that they have thousands of people visiting daily.  I do not drink, care less if WS is family friendly, I just want the place to be vibrant and  place people want to come, hang and chill.  I like the idea of live music, that is huge here in Bmore. Powerplanet Live is all about live music.  I'm not a fan of rock, but I am a fan of live music.

[baobabs727]

New:  20% military discount with military ID at most places in Waterside District. Excludes alcohol. 

http://pilotonline.com/inside-business/news/tourism-and-hospitality/percent-military-discount-available-at-waterside-district/article_847cc658-5ead-5ea6-9942-fb8ab6180652.html

[vdogg]

The total price was after tax. The meatball cup was 3 meatballs for like $7-9 I believe. The $3.00 CAN of Sprite was the list price, before tax...

[baobabs727]

Sprite $ is ridiculous. The rest of it was definitely pricey. They need to keep an eye on this. Perhaps that's why they just did the 20% Military discount on food.

[baobabs727]

Waterside District will be hosting Stanley Cup watching parties coming up here in support of the Norfolk Admirals parent team, the Nashville Predators. It'll be showing on the big screen. 

https://www.google.com/amp/wtkr.com/2017/05/27/waterside-district-to-host-stanley-cup-watch-parties/amp/

-----------------------------------

Interesting drinking survey/pub crawl @Waterside District write-up. Outlines several drinks and their prices, and the various purveyors of said drink. Differing operating hours duly noted therein.

https://www.google.com/amp/pilotonline.com/life/flavor/alcohol/talk-about-a-sense-of-place-waterside-district-is-norfolk/article_0294098d-516f-5b32-bd9d-f423ca7ba1a7.amp.html

 

Edited May 28, 2017 by baobabs727

[likeminded]

On 5/26/2017 at 6:50 PM, vdogg said:

Trying the local today. 9 wings, a meatball cup, and dessert...$27. Figured I'd get a drink while I'm at it. A CAN of Sprite...$3. Said no thanks and changed my order to go. These prices are nowhere near justifiable.

Way too expensive, I think.  Love the place, but it's just too pricey. $3 for a canned soda?  That's steeper than movie theater prices, per oz.

[HRVT]

On 5/26/2017 at 6:50 PM, vdogg said:

Trying the local today. 9 wings, a meatball cup, and dessert...$27. Figured I'd get a drink while I'm at it. A CAN of Sprite...$3. Said no thanks and changed my order to go. These prices are nowhere near justifiable.

I'm actually not too sure those prices are that out of the ordinary. The price of wings in particular has skyrocketed over the last 10-15 years (I remember in college when it was considered expensive for wings to be north of 50-60 cents a wing). 9 wings nowadays I would expect to run about $12 or so. The meatball cup at around $7 or $8. Then the dessert could be $4-$7 depending on what you got. Right there, you're looking at $23-$27 before tax.

$3 for a can of Sprite is absurd though.

[brikkman]

might be into comparison back home. But I find it absurd to spend what people spend on drinks/mixed drinks/cocktails. Those prices alone are enough to keep me from ever drinking... 

[jeffconn]

Waterside is NOT impressing the people on Facebook. There a TON of negative reviews, mostly talking about the hideous service, the insane prices, the parking garage situation, and lack of, well, ANYTHING family friendly. Apparently, the Market isn't handicapped friendly either. I can imagine what a nightmare that place would be for folks in wheelchairs, especially during meal times. There are very few low tables, and most of the eateries and bars seem to favor high stools. 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/WatersideDistrict/reviews/

Edited June 4, 2017 by jeffconn

[BFG]

The service, I imagine is due to it still only being a month. I'd give it to the end of the year to really call it a fail just because of service. My guess is they are understaffed and didn't anticipate this taking off this quickly. How you don't expect that, esp. headed into summer, I don't know.

As far as parking, I attended an event at Nauticus and all of the garages along Main Street or near the Slover were "cash only" because of an event downtown. Some were at capacity. I have no idea what else was going on downtown, but the idea of a cash only service in 2017 is an absolute joke, when even your meters take cards now! I was able to park at the Wells Fargo building (and didn't have to pay when I left), but that walk was a bit longer than I thought.

[HRVT]

7 hours ago, BFG said:

The service, I imagine is due to it still only being a month. I'd give it to the end of the year to really call it a fail just because of service. My guess is they are understaffed and didn't anticipate this taking off this quickly. How you don't expect that, esp. headed into summer, I don't know.

As far as parking, I attended an event at Nauticus and all of the garages along Main Street or near the Slover were "cash only" because of an event downtown. Some were at capacity. I have no idea what else was going on downtown, but the idea of a cash only service in 2017 is an absolute joke, when even your meters take cards now! I was able to park at the Wells Fargo building (and didn't have to pay when I left), but that walk was a bit longer than I thought.

How you don't expect it? Well... it's Cordish. They frankly aren't very good at what they do. I mean, they're AMAZING at marketing. But they execute very poorly. When you have the land and financial aspects in place, it's not that hard to build something cool and successful in major cities like Philadelphia and Baltimore. In Norfolk or Hampton? You better make sure you do it right. They got a hard F grade in Hampton. I mean, we have a hub of entertainment and the "entertainment" is Joe's Crab Shack, PBR (and with PBR coming to Norfolk, I think PBR Hampton may be on its last leg), and then........ Bass Pro Shops? Lowes?

Norfolk is a town starved for something cool and exciting. To not anticipate an early surge and not be prepared for it is a total fail on Cordish's part (possibly stemming from an internal idea of "it's just Norfolk"). This project did have a ton of potential. Hopefully Cordish will get their act in gear. Based on prior history, I doubt they will.

[baobabs727]

10 hours ago, jeffconn said:

Waterside is NOT impressing the people on Facebook. There a TON of negative reviews, mostly talking about the hideous service, the insane prices, the parking garage situation, and lack of, well, ANYTHING family friendly. Apparently, the Market isn't handicapped friendly either. I can imagine what a nightmare that place would be for folks in wheelchairs, especially during meal times. There are very few low tables, and most of the eateries and bars seem to favor high stools. 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/WatersideDistrict/reviews/

I'm not entirely sure that an avg. rating of four stars out of five (4.0/5.0) equates to "NOT" impressing people.

[baobabs727]

10 hours ago, jeffconn said:

Null

 

9 hours ago, BFG said:

The service, I imagine is due to it still only being a month. I'd give it to the end of the year to really call it a fail just because of service. My guess is they are understaffed and didn't anticipate this taking off this quickly. How you don't expect that, esp. headed into summer, I don't know.

As far as parking, I attended an event at Nauticus and all of the garages along Main Street or near the Slover were "cash only" because of an event downtown. Some were at capacity. I have no idea what else was going on downtown, but the idea of a cash only service in 2017 is an absolute joke, when even your meters take cards now! I was able to park at the Wells Fargo building (and didn't have to pay when I left), but that walk was a bit longer than I thought.

 

If you're talking about cash upfront for entry....

I get what you're saying about it being annoying because I rarely carry cash, but it's not about eschewing or rejecting technology. It's about getting a flood of people out as quickly as possible. MacArthur Center does it during the Holidays.  I've seen it done in another metropolitan areas when there are major events. Simply put, it speeds up the egress process. 

Edited June 4, 2017 by baobabs727

[jeffconn]

14 hours ago, baobabs727 said:

I'm not entirely sure that an avg. rating of four stars out of five (4.0/5.0) equates to "NOT" impressing people.

For Facebook, that's a low rating. A 5 star rating is pretty uninformative, for the most part. "This place is the best place EVER!" That sort of fluff. Read the actual reviews. The lower than 5 star reviews offer actual constructive criticism.

[baobabs727]

I understand what you're saying. In fact, I've posted about the exact same thing right here in the past. However, I don't think you can just willy-nilly dismiss all of the five star reviews. Many people tend to be more motivated to comment when they're upset than they are to take the time to praise something when they are pleased. The five stars do speak volumes, and they are just as valid as the very few one star reviews.

And by the way, having read about 100 comments, some of the scathing reviews sound like they're coming from people who have no eyes, no ears, no commonsense. Others definitely  had never read a single article about this place in the newspaper or elsewhere over the past several years prior to arriving.  A significant number of them seemed like they didn't even know that there were other food choices besides those in the "food court" a.k.a "The Market."  ?!?!?

Several folks mentioned all  of these supposedly "foodless" bars in such a disdainful manner that surely they had been under the impression that they were entering the Waterside NUNNERY!!  

Oh, and how do they not know that bars in Virginia serve food? Yes, and I do mean PBR and BlueMoon. HELLO?!  Blue moon is absolutely massive  & full of food, food, food! How much food do they want?

And for those people who seemed lost without a clue, not having found anything to eat, how do they not walk around and discover things for themselves?  Indeed, for if they had walked the perimeter, they would have found  all of these   supposedly nonexistent food purveyors.   There are 17 of them!

Not enough food yet? Well, hey maybe some folks are afraid of heights or are too lazy to climb the stairs or wait for the elevator, for if they had done so they would've arrived at a fantastic and upscale Harbor Club--which also serves alcohol--and food! Duh.

Some of the other potentially factual critical reviewers aside, poorly-informed people should not post reviews. Sorry.  Reviewers everywhere owe their readers a modicum of accuracy, thoroughness and intellectual curiosity. Clearly, many of those people did not check out this place very thoroughly.

Edited June 5, 2017 by baobabs727

[baobabs727]

HARBORFEST 2017

is kicking off THIS weekend. They have already blocked Waterside Drive. The food trucks are lined up in front of the World Trade Center, and there are police everywhere.

The children's fountain at the river's edge in between Town Point Park & Waterside is on and looks pretty cool. There is definitely a buzz... or call it a pre-buzz! Pirate ship in the Harbor along with several other sailing vessels. More to come.  Some folks were moored right behind Waterside and having a lil private party there on their boat and half on the dock. Nice to see.

With Waterside District now open, this should be one helluva party.

Like Harborfest of yore!

Edited June 8, 2017 by baobabs727

[Virginia City]

I look forward to the day Harborfest activities stretch from the Wisconsin to Harbor Park.

[brikkman]

Finally got home this past holiday weekend, it was fun visiting home for those 4 or 5 days.  I finally got to check out waterside, took my two sons and met some of my frat brothers there to have lunch. lunch cost me $63 plus a 15 dollar tip (she was extremely nice and helpful) at Guy's place, that was more than I intended to spend for lunch, hey we were starving.

My first impression, it was exactly what I expected it to be. I'm not certain if some of those spots will survive (like noodle place) but hey its better than nothing. Its definitely brighter and more vibrant, my guess with the beer and entertainment setup, this will probably be the norm for some time. It seems more polished, not just a new coat of paint, but more mature as an establishment.  Just as I thought however, its just too small for the area IMO. I was worried about this when they tore down the extension and I still feel it was a bad move although I know they did that in hopes to build a tower of some type.  I'm glad they kept the fountain area outside for the kids along with the park. I do still miss Jillians and what that venue provide the area. One thing is for sure, Cordish got a heck of a deal and provide what I call a "typical and easy" design. This was a win win for them hands down.  Now keeping some perspective, it may play nicely to the hilton and the icon as both of those places along with the Marriott have/will have eating establishments.

[baobabs727]

I was there last night between 6 and 7:15, Dead.  Weather was beautiful. The back patio 3/4 empty. Front patios, all empty. Restaurants 3/4 empty. The Market only about 1/3 - 1/2 full. I saw the president of Waterside walking down Granby from his apartment I guess. Well, he came out of a random building walking nonchalantly and relaxed toward Main St at 7:30PM.  He was dressed like he was chick-hunting.  I mean, really. I've met him once, seen him talk another time. I won't say anything negative, but I'm not so sure he'll be there for the long-haul.

Came back for lunch today. Between 12 and now--light drizzle. Very slow, but a steady stream here and there.  Like when a traffic light lets out half a mile down the road. You've got about 12 people coming at one time. Then 10 minutes...and nobody. Then again 10-12 people.  The place is about 60 pct. empty.  Even Chipotle has an average of about 6 people eating at  any given time. Go to Chipoe TC or Lynnhaven and see if that holds up. I certainly know it would not. 

And before one says that I was there early last night, I realize that it wasn't midnight. But remember, not all these places stay open very late. It's more like 60% party, 40% family. So you'd think there'd be a lot more people here around the dinner hour on a lovely Fri. night.  

I will try coming back later tonight. 9 - 11. If still dead then, this is a problem.  Where the hell is everybody? 

Having said all of that, everyone seems happy. It is now more full. 2pm.  I'd say about half full. Tons of people going to Guy's smokehouse. I think the place is beautiful. I've had nothing but good times, but I realize there were growing pains in the beginning. Hopefully they sorted those out. Need to win back those people who were upset in the beginning and keep impressing the newbies. 

Edited September 2, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

There was a First Fridays block party on Granby, so that might have caused some of it. I would've thought the rain would cause people to come inside, but maybe it was just early.

My friend and I noticed how FF didn't have as many people as it usually does. I figured it was because of the holiday weekend, and she suggested the weather played a part. It was a decent crowd, but I've seen pics where Granby was filled with people. We went to The Main, and it was slowly starting to get busy. This was maybe 8 pm last night.

[baobabs727]

Sorry, I updated my post just now. Yes, The Main was hopping even at 7:30 when I walked by. Granby Street was only about half as full as it has been before for the FF.

[zeppelin14]

Is this a sign that Waterside is already struggling? It looks like a revitalization is coming to the marina as well as the water front along Towne Point Park to Nauticus. No details yet, but they will come soon:

https://www.wavy.com/news/local-news/norfolk/norfolk-seeking-to-make-waterside-a-world-class-marina-to-vote-to-accept-2-bids-tuesday/1608085500?fbclid=IwAR33RHVPcRV6oMIqKotz-2cvw1Zqjiu2WC65H3gjiOJaQ99ixOqH2pEUo-A

 

 

 

I was having trouble getting the link to load, so copy and pasting the content here:
 

Norfolk, seeking to make Waterside a world-class marina, to vote to accept 2 bids Tuesday

NORFOLK, Va. (WAVY) -- What's next for the Waterside Marina in Norfolk? The future of the space will depend on who's in charge. 

In June, city officials requested proposals for management of the marina. On Tuesday night, city council will vote to officially accept two bids. 

According to bid paperwork, a successful proposal will focus on ways to revitalize not only the marina, but also add to the energy to the entire waterfront. The goal is to turn the area into a world-class marina. 

The space includes the 32 boat slips behind the Waterside District, along with much of the docking space up to Nauticus.  

City leaders are looking for a plan that increases the utilization of the marina during the offseason as well as increase foot traffic at Waterside and Town Point Park. The goal is to increase city revenue. 

Since 2005, Waterside Marina LLC has managed the marina. Back in June, 10 On Your Side reported the city had no issue with the current operator and they are likely one of the two current bidders. 

The details of the proposed bids can't be legally released until the council officially accepts the bid at Tuesday night's meeting. 

Edited November 20, 2018 by zeppelin14

[BFG]

I don't think it's a sign of Waterside failing, although I have talked with people who find it doesn't live up to the hype. I think with the bike trail going to Harbor Park, Norfolk should explore more entertainment options along that river walk, if they want to upgrade the marina.

Maybe we need more info, but I don't really get what this proposal accomplishes.

[baobabs727]

it's simply about activating the vastly underutilized waterfront with yachters and boaters who usually have $$ to spend.