Waterside District

[jeffconn]

On 7/15/2016 at 10:21 PM, zeppelin14 said:

There is also a Phillip's in the Norfolk airport as well.

Since i haven't been to ORF in ages, i just checked out Phillips webpage. YIKES! The prices are outrageous, even for airport food! Bring back Joe's Crab Shack. The prices were somewhat reasonable, and the food was good. Phillips will be one of those places we want to have in Norfolk to prove that "we've arrived", but nobody can actually afford to eat there, like Shula's 347 and Ruth's Chris.

[BFG]

More plans revealed. I like the idea of a business incubator...I think small businesses and entrepreneurship needs to be heavily emphasized in this region. A lot of the other stuff in this article (on the surface) seem a little vague and generic. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but I'm not picking up as much of the "game changer" vibe that was being predicted.

http://pilotonline.com/business/waterside-district-to-offer-business-incubator-mechanical-bull-rides-and/article_64b803fa-0f0d-5bc9-af02-41aff38a926b.html

Edited September 13, 2016 by BFG

[mikeas]

From what I had heard they never wanted Joe's Crab Shack but they had a long standing lease with the city that Joe's was fighting to have honored.

I've heard a Chipotle that has it's own entrance on the front will be one of the tenants.  The "living room" they're talking about will have several food stands like a juice bar, coffee shop, noodle bar, salad bar, deli, etc.  Not sure on exactly which ones will make the cut but it's gonna be like a food court with booze and entertainment as far as I can tell.

[metalman]

Blue Moon Brewing Co. to create first-of-its-kind venue in Waterside.

http://pilotonline.com/business/consumer/blue-moon-brewing-company-slated-to-join-waterside-district-with/article_a2c7be78-856c-5a12-b5d4-d4bde9a4fc28.html

[carolinaboy]

I really hope this iteration of Waterside will be successful. I just worry it will draw people away from the rest of downtown. I guess that is what the market will decide though.

When I am an empty-nester I very well may move to DT Norfolk just because of facilities like this.

I'm excited for this to be completed and look forward to visiting frequently.

[HRVT]

14 hours ago, carolinaboy said:

I really hope this iteration of Waterside will be successful. I just worry it will draw people away from the rest of downtown. I guess that is what the market will decide though.

When I am an empty-nester I very well may move to DT Norfolk just because of facilities like this.

I'm excited for this to be completed and look forward to visiting frequently.

Well, what I can say is that when I visit the Norfolk/Va Beach area again, I'll probably be going by to check out the new Waterside. Some of the new tenants that have been revealed are interesting. I'm looking forward to trying out Guy Fieri's BBQ joint. I know the idea isn't much different than what was there before, but updating/upgrading the facility and the new branding seem to be helping to bring in a more diverse mix of entertainment rather than a subsection of seedy bars as was there before.

[R-123]

We will start to see some more construction activity pick up at Waterside. GC just pick some of their subcontractors. 

[brikkman]

Not sure if anyone has posted this before: http://www.viewitdoit.com/images/virtual_tours/waterside_vt_01/index.html

But after seeing this, waterside has a pretty big foot print, but I'm still convinced they tore down the expansion in an effort to build condos etc... Absolutely no reason to do that outside that premises. 

[mikeas]

20 hours ago, brikkman said:

Not sure if anyone has posted this before: http://www.viewitdoit.com/images/virtual_tours/waterside_vt_01/index.html

But after seeing this, waterside has a pretty big foot print, but I'm still convinced they tore down the expansion in an effort to build condos etc... Absolutely no reason to do that outside that premises. 

They have plans for residential.  I met one of their project manager guys and he said they are trying to do something similar to what they did in Kansas City.

http://onelightkc.com/

[zeppelin14]

An oyster restaurant is moving in:

 

http://www.styleweekly.com/ShortOrderBlog/archives/2016/11/28/rappahannock-oyster-co-to-move-into-norfolks-waterside-district

[BFG]

Looked at the menu for their DC and Richmond locations. Crossing my fingers for something closer to the DC menu, but it's cool regardless to see Waterside continue the tradition of having a seafood restaurant. I'm digging the restaurant lineup so far.

https://www.rroysters.com/restaurants/rappahannock

[baobabs727]

Cordish will be bringing the "Harbor Club" to the top floor of Waterside, complete with fire pits, a veranda with harbor views, craft cocktails and small plates. This  8000 ft.² space will be available for large events, private functions, etc.

https://www.google.com/amp/pilotonline.com/business/consumer/waterside-district-developer-announces-details-on-upstairs-lounge-harbor-club/article_57b95669-3086-54b8-83f6-7551db9f4b73.amp.html?client=safari

On another note, I'm curious as to our forum members' opinons on the prospect of a high-rise, luxury apartment building potentially built on the site of the former annex? 

Edited January 27, 2017 by baobabs727

[BFG]

My only question would be where parking would go? I figure a 20-story high rise would have about 300-400 units? I suppose you could put a parking lot on the open area beside it, where those small fountains are (I think that's the park Jeff's talking about?), but I think an underground garage would be much less of an eyesore.

[vdogg]

24 minutes ago, BFG said:

My only question would be where parking would go? I figure a 20-story high rise would have about 300-400 units? I suppose you could put a parking lot on the open area beside it, where those small fountains are (I think that's the park Jeff's talking about?), but I think an underground garage would be much less of an eyesore.

It will likely be built on top of the garage, like Town Center.

[baobabs727]

4 hours ago, NFKjeff said:

I'm not sure how I feel about that. I suppose as long as none of the public park is taken by any of the tower I would be OK with it. Have you heard something regarding such a development beyond what has been speculated on here? I was out there taking photos the other day and I did note that the side where the annex was torn down has no windows or doors. It reminds me of the side of  MacArthur center by the empty lot.

Well, I've spoken with one of the principals, and he indicated that they would like to go tall, uber-luxe, achieve record rents, and perhaps include some type of public component. I'm for it, as long as it's built within the footprint of the former annex. Parking will probably be incorporated into the structure, or the existing city parking garage across the street might be redeveloped into a mixed-use project with another tower and additional garage space.  Any speculation on my part about the parking situation is just that: speculation. 

Edited January 28, 2017 by baobabs727

[baobabs727]

OK, to continue to answer my own question about Cordish and the potential for high-rise residential at the Annex and beyond, I've just been reading a bunch of articles re: Kansas City and their involvement there in what they call "One Light, Two Light"....  These are beautiful, sleek glass towers with approx. 300 units each @25 stories tall. Rents range from about $1250 to about $5800 per month.  The first building averaged $1.85 a foot, while second will average about  $2.25 a foot.  They are breaking record rents in Kansas City. The second one is selling out faster than the first one, and the first one sold out in record time. 

The projects have been so successful that Cordish is proposing two additional towers.  That would be four, in total, and approximately $450 million in capital investment.

Sorry, I haven't  linked the articles here because there are so many, but you can just Google  something like  "Cordish Kansas City One light Two Light."

Oh, and the icing on the cake is that other national players are now taking note and are proposing additional residential towers in KC.

I am now even more thoroughly convinced than before that Council needs to give Cordish a chance to at least make a formal proposal for "One River." (that's what I'm calling ha ha)  I could see them developing a tower on the annex, possibly one across the street or one or two more down toward the ballpark, etc. Who knows?

Well, what I do know is that this is one project that Cordish really wants to do, and there aren't exactly a whole lot of other developers beating down our door to radically alter both the Norfolk skyline and the regional residential rental landscape.

Edited January 30, 2017 by baobabs727

[Norva757]

where is the annex located exactly? Im trying to visualize the plot of land...thanks

[Urbanlooker]

I would be all for a residential tower right on the water at 20+ stories put a restaurant/bar and lounge at the top and it would be an amazing view. The apartment market definitely seems sustainable and it would probably make more companies interested in moving to downtown or norfolk in general.

Edited January 30, 2017 by Urbanlooker
Autocorrect

[brikkman]

it all just seems odd i guess. BOA building turning in apt, and the potential for a highrise apt at wateside 3.0 that was not originally designed for mix use, just seem blah to me. I assume this is all because of the failed/failling/bad SPQ plan (yeah i know, i'm the only one that hates it). one thing i know for certain, an above/bottom level garage would look absolutely terrible in that annex location. Personally, i would love to seen the city let cordish redevelop the area around harbor park.. that is a chunk of area right over the train tracks, some old apts and the surround area... that is due for all of these things we are talking about.

 

[vdogg]

49 minutes ago, brikkman said:

it all just seems odd i guess. BOA building turning in apt, and the potential for a highrise apt at wateside 3.0 that was not originally designed for mix use, just seem blah to me. I assume this is all because of the failed/failling/bad SPQ plan (yeah i know, i'm the only one that hates it). one thing i know for certain, an above/bottom level garage would look absolutely terrible in that annex location. Personally, i would love to seen the city let cordish redevelop the area around harbor park.. that is a chunk of area right over the train tracks, some old apts and the surround area... that is due for all of these things we are talking about.

 

Cordish invested a lot of money in this project, probably believing they would be allowed to expand at a later date. If I were Cordish the city would have to provide me with significant incentives in order to get me to build somewhere else. That land doesn't come cheap.

[BFG]

My thing is, if Cordish wants to build more than one tower, where can he go that's directly near Waterside? Outside of maybe the Towne Bank lot, I can't think of anywhere else. Maybe the BoA drive-thru area, but doesn't that belong to Buddy Gadams?

[ntheo]

On 1/30/2017 at 0:22 PM, brikkman said:

it all just seems odd i guess. BOA building turning in apt, and the potential for a highrise apt at wateside 3.0 that was not originally designed for mix use, just seem blah to me. I assume this is all because of the failed/failling/bad SPQ plan (yeah i know, i'm the only one that hates it). one thing i know for certain, an above/bottom level garage would look absolutely terrible in that annex location. Personally, i would love to seen the city let cordish redevelop the area around harbor park.. that is a chunk of area right over the train tracks, some old apts and the surround area... that is due for all of these things we are talking about.

 

The City Council did encourage Cordish to develop Harbor Park instead of building a tower at Waterside. Cordish was insistent on the tower.

[BFG]

29 minutes ago, ntheo said:

The City Council did encourage Cordish to develop Harbor Park instead of building a tower at Waterside. Cordish was insistent on the tower.

I've been wanting to see development in that area for years. I think it's a perfect spot for new development, and offers more space to build a cluster of "One River, Two River, etc." towers, esp. if you keep it mixed-use with apartments, restaurants and retail. Being that close to LRT and Amtrak is another great selling point for businesses who would want to move to the area. With it being Cordish, I'm sure you could put a small riverfront plaza connecting to Waterside. The view along the river might not be the prettiest though...  

I know he wants something directly next to Waterside, but if he wants to space things out, he's kinda landlocked without knocking something down, and Norfolk has done enough of that.

[BFG]

So is SPQ on indefinite hold? I remember hearing Mayor Alexander talk about it becoming a reality by 2020, but that's only three years away, so they would probably have to start planning Phase I now. I imagine that also includes finding solutions for the current tenants?

[Urbanlooker]

49 minutes ago, BFG said:

So is SPQ on indefinite hold? I remember hearing Mayor Alexander talk about it becoming a reality by 2020, but that's only three years away, so they would probably have to start planning Phase I now. I imagine that also includes finding solutions for the current tenants?

The solution for the tenants last I knew of was keep them there, build then tear down and continue that trend, and make it a mixed income area