Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

PghUSA

Forbes Rankings of 50 largest

Recommended Posts

Sunshine a few months ago posted links to Forbes Magazines rankings of big cities and towns according to 9 demographic measuring sticks (education to safety to business climate and culture). Only problem was that Arlington, TX and Riverside, CA and Toledo, OH came up on them. To me thats a bit bogus, its similar to comparing apples to virus strains. SIZE matters, maybe small towns are better then big cities but you dont get ANYWHERE comparing a Los Angeles or Milwaukee to Wassau, WI or Tallahassee, FL. There ain't much comparison, even if you try to even the playing fields by doing it "per capita" it just gets scewed anyway (no matter how much per capita equations you run NYC's culture is always gonna dwarf Wassau's and if you crunch the #s too hard you might get a result that makes Wassau look MORE cultured then NYC which defys the whole point of comparison in the first place!) To try and add some of that logic I took the 50 largest metros and threw ALL OTHER cities out of the rankings. So here is the big city ranking using Forbes' #s but with all the Bakersfields, Brownsvilles, Tallahasses, and Uticas KICKED OUT. Big Boys only here ;)

Educational Opportunity:

BEST San Francisco

2 Washington

3 Boston

4 Raliegh-Durham

5 Austin

6 Seattle

7 Denver

8 Minneapolis

9 Atlanta

10 Chicago

11 Dallas

12 San Diego

13 New York

14 Columbus

15 Portland

16 Kansas City

17 Albany

18 Omaha

19 Honolulu

20 Philadelphia

21 Houston

22 Rochester

23 Milwaukee

24 Nashville

25 Charlotte

26 Salt Lake City

27 Sacramento

28 Indianapolis

29 St. Louis

30 Cincinnati

31 Phoenix

32 Los Angeles

33 Orlando

34 Birmingham

35 Oklahoma City

36 Pittsburgh

37 Knoxville

38 Cleveland

39 Buffalo

40 Tulsa

41 Jacksonville

42 Detriot

43 Memphis

44 New Orleans

45 San Antonio

46 Louisville

47 Tampa

48 Miami

49 Fresno

WORST Las Vegas

=================

In-Migration:

BEST Las Vegas

2 Austin

3 Phoenix

4 Orlando

5 Atlanta

6 Sacramento

7 Raliegh-Durham

8 Charlotte

9 Tampa

10 Dallas

11 Houston

12 Denver

13 Jacksonville

14 Portland

15 Washington

16 San Antonio

17 Nashville

18 Miami

19 Knoxville

20 San Diego

21 Minneapolis

22 Indianapolis

23 Kansas City

24 Seattle

25 Tulsa

26 Columbus

27 Fresno

28 Oklahoma City

29 Birmingham

30 Boston

31 Memphis

32 Louisville

33 Los Angeles

34 Omaha

35 Cincinnati

36 Chicago

37 Albany

38 St. Louis

39 Philadelphia

40 New York

41 Salt Lake City

42 Milwaukee

43 Pittsburgh

44 Rochester

45 Detriot

46 San Francisco

47 Cleveland

48 New Orleans

49 Buffalo

WORST Honolulu

===================

Job Growth:

BEST Las Vegas

2 Sacramento

3 Fresno

4 San Diego

5 Phoenix

6 Washington

7 Orlando

8 Tampa

9 Knoxville

10 Austin

11 Jacksonville

12 San Antonio

13 Charlotte

14 Atlanta

15 Raliegh-Durham

16 Houston

17 Indianapolis

18 Honolulu

19 Omaha

20 Nashville

21 Albany

22 Denver

23 Columbus

24 Minneapolis

25 Philadelphia

26 Dallas

27 Oklahoma City

28 Miami

29 Salt Lake City

30 Memphis

31 Pittsburgh

32 Cincinnati

33 New York

34 Birmingham

35 Boston

36 Buffalo

37 Kansas City

38 Louisville

39 New Orleans

40 Portland

41 Chicago

42 Rochester

43 Seattle

44 St. Louis

45 Milwaukee

46 Tulsa

47 Detriot

48 Cleveland

49 San Francisco

WORST Los Angeles

====================

Income Growth:

BEST Omaha

2 Boston

3 Washington

4 Fresno

5 San Diego

6 Honolulu

7 Phoenix

8 Pittsburgh

9 Sacramento

10 Las Vegas

11 San Francisco

12 Austin

13 Houston

14 Albany

15 San Antonio

16 Philadelphia

17 Cincinnati

18 Columbus

19 Atlanta

20 Los Angeles

21 Minneapolis

22 Buffalo

23 New York

24 New Orleans

25 Oklahoma City

26 Charlotte

27 Raliegh-Durham

28 Detriot

29 Cleveland

30 Milwaukee

31 Louisville

32 Kansas City

33 Rochester

34 Nashville

35 Dallas

36 Chicago

37 Tampa

38 Knoxville

39 Jacksonville

40 Orlando

41 Memphis

42 St. Louis

43 Indianapolis

44 Salt Lake City

45 Miami

46 Portland

47 Denver

48 Tulsa

49 Birmingham

WORST Seattle

=====================

Culture:

BEST Los Angeles

2 New York

3 Chicago

4 San Francisco

5 Boston

6 Seattle

7 Washington

8 Philadelphia

9 Cleveland

10 Minneapolis

11 San Diego

12 Detriot

13 Miami

14 Denver

15 Atlanta

16 Pittsburgh

17 Houston

18 Dallas

19 St. Louis

20 Phoenix

21 Milwaukee

22 Indianapolis

23 Portland

24 Cincinnati

25 Tampa

26 Salt Lake City

27 Columbus

28 Kansas City

29 New Orleans

30 Rochester

31 Sacramento

32 Buffalo

33 Albany

34 Raliegh-Durham

35 Honolulu

36 Jacksonville

37 San Antonio

38 Nashville

39 Knoxville

40 Memphis

41 Omaha

42 Charlotte

43 Louisville

44 Austin

45 Las Vegas

46 Oklahoma City

47 Tulsa

48 Birmingham

49 Orlando

WORST Fresno

====================

Safety:

BEST Pittsburgh

2 Boston

3 Albany

4 New York

5 Philadelphia

6 Rochester

7 Buffalo

8 San Diego

9 Cleveland

10 San Francisco

11 Indianapolis

12 Los Angeles

13 Minneapolis

14 Washington

15 Detriot

16 Chicago

17 Knoxville

18 Cincinnati

19 Milwaukee

20 Atlanta

21 Birmingham

22 Louisville

23 Austin

24 Las Vegas

25 Denver

26 Sacramento

27 Raliegh-Durham

28 Portland

29 Tulsa

30 New Orleans

31 Seattle

32 St. Louis

33 Salt Lake City

34 Houston

35 Nashville

36 Orlando

37 Fresno

38 Jacksonville

39 Charlotte

40 Dallas

41 Omaha

42 Tampa

43 Columbus

44 Kansas City

45 Honolulu

46 Oklahoma City

47 San Antonio

48 Phoenix

49 Miami

WORST Memphis

===================

Cost of Living:

BEST Buffalo

2 Oklahoma City

3 Rochester

4 Pittsburgh

5 Indianapolis

6 Omaha

7 Tulsa

8 Louisville

9 Knoxville

10 St. Louis

11 Cincinnati

12 San Antonio

13 Albany

14 Salt Lake City

15 Memphis

16 Birmingham

17 Kansas City

18 Columbus

19 Cleveland

20 Milwaukee

21 Jacksonville

22 Charlotte

23 Detriot

24 New Orleans

25 Tampa

26 Nashville

27 Raliegh-Durham

28 Fresno

29 Philadelphia

30 Orlando

31 Atlanta

32 Phoenix

33 Dallas

34 Houston

35 Las Vegas

36 Portland

37 Austin

38 Minneapolis

39 Chicago

40 Sacramento

41 Miami

42 Denver

43 Washington

44 Seattle

45 Los Angeles

46 Honolulu

47 San Diego

48 New York

49 Boston

WORST San Francisco

===================

Business Friendly:

BEST Tulsa

2 Oklahoma City

3 Louisville

4 Raliegh-Durham

5 Portland

6 Birmingham

7 Charlotte

8 Knoxville

9 Omaha

10 Memphis

11 Nashville

12 Salt Lake City

13 New Orleans

14 Dallas

15 San Antonio

16 Atlanta

17 Austin

18 Houston

19 Kansas City

20 Indianapolis

21 Cincinnati

22 Las Vegas

23 St. Louis

24 Denver

25 Milwaukee

26 Columbus

27 Phoenix

28 Jacksonville

29 Tampa

30 Orlando

31 Albany

32 Buffalo

33 Minneapolis

34 Miami

35 Pittsburgh

36 Washington

37 Chicago

38 Rochester

39 Cleveland

40 Seattle

41 Detriot

42 Philadelphia

43 Honolulu

44 San Francisco

45 Sacramento

46 Fresno

47 Los Angeles

48 San Diego

49 Boston

WORST New York

Educated Population:

BEST Raliegh-Durham

2 Washington

3 San Francisco

4 Austin

5 Boston

6 San Diego

7 Albany

8 Denver

9 Knoxville

10 Philadelphia

11 Columbus

12 New York

13 Seattle

14 Minneapolis

15 Salt Lake City

16 Sacramento

17 Rochester

18 Houston

19 Atlanta

20 Nashville

21 Honolulu

22 Pittsburgh

23 Chicago

24 Oklahoma City

25 Los Angeles

26 Portland

27 Cincinnati

28 Miami

29 Buffalo

30 St. Louis

31 Birmingham

32 New Orleans

33 Indianapolis

34 Dallas

35 Cleveland

36 Phoenix

37 Detriot

38 Omaha

39 Memphis

40 Milwaukee

41 San Antonio

42 Kansas City

43 Orlando

44 Tampa

45 Fresno

46 Tulsa

47 Louisville

48 Jacksonville

49 Charlotte

WORST Las Vegas

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites


Cost of Living:

48 New York

49 Boston

WORST San Francisco

This is to all the people who pashawed when I said I moved from Boston to New York because New York was cheaper!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is to all the people who pashawed when I said I moved from Boston to New York because New York was cheaper!

Cotuit, these rankings have been posted a dozen times here but Forbes A) doesnt consolidate them (I had to click and click and click to consolidate them) and B) they bog them down with basically small towns so you cant get a clear picture of the metros vs. metros. I am glad you find this useful Cotuit.

Here is the Matrix I complied for the 50 largest Metros and then Forbes rankings accordingly, for those that wish to check my math in a way ;) :

Pop. Ed. Biz. CstOfLv Crime Culture EdOp IncGrowth JobGrowth Migration

New York 21.8 21 150 146 20 2 29 63 103 125

Los Angeles 17 44 147 133 47 1 67 55 1000 99

Chicago 9.5 40 103 123 63 3 24 98 119 108

Washington 9.5 4 102 131 50 7 2 5 23 37

San Francisco 7.2 5 139 150 45 4 1 27 145 136

Boston 6.3 10 149 148 16 5 5 3 106 92

Philadelphia 5.9 18 121 101 25 9 45 45 75 117

Dallas 5.8 62 35 109 124 27 25 94 76 23

Detriot 5.4 66 118 86 60 16 94 76 133 132

Miami 5.2 53 95 127 148 19 106 132 79 47

Houston 4.9 33 48 110 113 27 49 38 55 31

Atlanta 4.9 35 44 105 75 22 16 53 50 14

Phoenix 4.6 65 74 106 147 32 63 15 21 8

Seattle 3.9 24 110 132 105 6 10 149 122 68

Minneapolis 3.4 27 94 120 49 14 14 58 74 62

Cleveland 2.9 63 108 74 44 13 88 77 140 139

San Diego 2.9 13 148 139 35 15 27 11 15 50

St. Louis 2.8 57 65 47 107 29 60 123 123 116

Denver 2.5 16 68 128 88 19 12 134 71 33

Pittsburgh 2.5 39 99 28 13 25 80 17 95 130

Tampa 2.5 88 82 89 126 40 105 105 26 22

Cincinnati 2.5 49 57 48 70 40 61 48 102 107

Sacramento 2.1 31 142 125 90 53 58 22 6 15

Portland 2 47 16 114 100 39 34 133 118 35

Charlotte 2 99 19 82 123 82 55 72 49 19

Kansas City 2 82 50 70 135 48 37 84 113 65

Indianapolis 1.9 61 54 33 46 34 59 127 62 64

Columbus 1.9 19 71 72 134 47 33 52 73 73

Orlando 1.9 86 87 103 116 101 69 112 24 9

San Antonio 1.8 79 38 60 145 69 100 44 45 42

Milwaukee 1.7 75 69 75 74 34 51 79 128 129

Las Vegas 1.6 107 63 112 86 87 138 25 2 1

Salt Lake City 1.5 30 27 63 109 43 56 130 86 128

Nashville 1.4 36 25 94 114 69 52 91 67 44

Raliegh-Durham 1.4 2 13 96 92 58 6 74 52 18

Austin 1.4 9 45 115 83 86 9 29 30 3

New Orleans 1.4 59 31 88 104 49 97 68 117 145

Louisville 1.3 95 7 38 79 84 102 83 116 96

Memphis 1.2 73 23 67 149 74 95 118 91 93

Jacksonville 1.2 97 77 78 122 68 92 111 43 34

Oklahoma City 1.2 43 4 17 141 88 77 71 77 82

Buffalo 1.2 56 92 9 31 53 89 62 109 148

Birmingham 1.2 58 17 69 78 94 71 139 105 90

Rochester 1.1 32 105 18 27 49 50 87 120 131

Albany 1.1 14 88 61 19 55 41 42 68 112

Fresno 1 93 146 99 117 116 135 9 13 74

Tulsa 1 94 3 37 102 92 90 136 132 69

Honolulu 1 37 128 134 138 63 44 13 64 149

Omaha 1 67 22 35 125 78 43 1 65 101

Knoxville 1 17 20 41 67 69 85 106 29 48

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Cotuit, these rankings have been posted a dozen times here but Forbes A) doesnt consolidate them (I had to click and click and click to consolidate them) and then they bog them down with basically small towns so you cant get a clear picture of the metros vs. metros. I am glad you find this useful Cotuit.

I've actually seen other cost of living rankings that put both Boston and the Barnstable (Cape Cod) MSA where I grew up (along with Long Island, SF, and DC) as being more expensive than NYC.

All that's why I live in Providence now! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

St. Louis safer than Salt Lake City?

St. Louis:

http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/1/2004...6&datatype=Misc

Salt Lake City:

http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/1/2004...3&datatype=Misc

St. Louis I have heard is a death trap in some parts, out of control Gang Warfare, but Forbes (again this is Forbes we are talking about) is doing TOTAL crime per capita, not ONLY violent crime etc. Take it up with them, I'm just sorting them for an easier read ;) Anyways you admitted SLC sucked in the describe your city post lol, kidding aside, I would be interested in hearing about why Forbes ranked you guys so low on that count, lots of auto thefts, or gun violations etc. I always thought SLC was pretty safe, not the safest but not violent.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I bet Honolulu gets hurt with the "In-Migration" factor because of military/dependents always going in and out as well as young adults, but not when it comes to International migration cause it recieves more immigrants a year than quite a few of those cities on the list. Which i think is also why the foreign born percentage is increasing pretty fast here ->domestic out ~ International in... :P I wouldnt doubt that in less than a couple of decades that there will be more foreign born than domestic born in this state.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To me its a joke many of those cities are even on the list - especially Knoxville. The job growth in Knoxville is quite stodgy, and its not a place for cultural or ethnic diversity. Its one of the most diversity-unfriendly cities in the nation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Size does play a role in my personal preferences. I just don't see myself being content in a city smaller then NYC, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, Montreal, etc.

Size is relative - I would love Montreal immensely more then Atlanta, yet Montreal has fewer people metro-wide; the difference is that the city's urban landscape is intensely urban and much larger in that respect. Same for Vancouver - city of 2 million with more urbanized areas then a metro of 4 or 5 million such as Atlanta or Houston; therefore I'd prefer Vancouver's larger densely urbanized area compared /w Atlanta or Houston.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Every city is of different size.

So the only way to do it, is by per capita.

It always comes down to percentages.

Bigger dose NOT equate into better.

per capita is how Forbes is ranking most of these metro areas. BUT did you ever notice that a "Batting Average" is ranked only after so many AT BATS, my contention with the original forbes rankings IS NOT that they included smaller metros but that they are listing them along with NYC and Pittsburgh and Dallas and Denver. Its like listing a dude that has had 3 at bats this year up against Barry Bonds, WE ALL KNOW Barry Bonds is worlds better (thats why he has more at bats or in this case more people) but the dude with 3 at bats if you do the numbers one way could look BETTER then Barry Bonds. Thats my beef with Forbes, thats why I only took the 50 largest. Small towns are great but compare them to other small towns. ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Charlotte #49 for educated people? I really would like to know how you calculated that!!! North Carolina's other large metro(Raliegh) has the most educated population in the Nation but the Charlotte Metro home to 8 Fortune 500 companies, many company national headquarters, and a city with one of the higest household incomes in the nation is the second lowest in the category of most educated population. I find that hard to believe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

heckles, btw you bring up an interesting point about size but i honestly feel it shouldnt matter too much if the city is vibrant, urban/dense, and theres lots to do etc. Shoot Honolulu is less than a million in size yet its more vibrant, urban, diverse than many many cities many times larger than it and the people are friendly and get a long it has always been that way which its probably one of the few places in the world where the creole language here is mixed with so many different languages (Hawaiian, Spanish, Portuguese, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, Okinawan, Filipino, Samoan, etc) thanks to cultures mixing. Its not unusual to hear words or slangs from all those languages and more mixed in an average conversation as if it was the norm. :P its so nutty... i love it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little clarification here, I just sorted what Forbes ranked--but didnt sort completely and didn't only look at the LARGEST 50 (but muddied the waters with what appeared to be every town with a stop light). I just wanted to see the Forest from the Trees if you get my drift. This way we can compare apples to apples and without all the click click click that is on the Forbes site. As far as where your city ranks take it up with Forbes not me. Now if you see an Error (If I transposed two rankings of Forbes) let me know, but I am 99.9% sure those are the same #s on Forbes (see the matrix I put together with there Forbes Rankings). :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A little clarification here, I just sorted what Forbes ranked--but didnt sort completely and didn't only look at the LARGEST 50 (but muddied the waters with what appeared to be every town with a stop light).

Well Providence isn't on any of these lists. I know we're a top 50 metro, and I know we have traffic lights, not many of them work, but we have 'em..

It could well be ranked outside the top 50, but I can't imagine it being ranked lower than Boston and New York and SF in cost of living. :blink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

http://www.neweconomyindex.org/metro/major_cities.html

In the last few years I have not seen Providence Metro on any of the top 50 lists, maybe by the 1990 census but not since then, not 2004 or 2003.

For comparisons sake here is Providence (If you look at the post where I posted the matrix of all the rankings with Forbes list of 150 metros these #s will make some sense to you)

http://www.forbes.com/finance/lists/1/2004...9&datatype=Misc

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When do you think these lists will start using the new Census metro definitions? If that is the case, SLC will drop out of it because their metro went from 1.3 million to around 950,000. And these type of lists tend to go only with metro areas of 1 million +.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When do you think these lists will start using the new Census metro definitions? If that is the case, SLC will drop out of it because their metro went from 1.3 million to around 950,000. And these type of lists tend to go only with metro areas of 1 million +.

You got a link to the "new" ones the estimates for 2003 or 2004 from the census, I can't seem to find them on their site, just an alphabetical list of all 300 or so metros (when the list starts with Abliene, TX its gonna be a LONG day finding the 50 biggest). There are 50 largest lists on the net but some are by their own measuring sticks and not 100% accurate like the census.

By the way, Salt Lake City/Provo LOST POPULATION in the last 4 years :blink: How is it that Utah's biggest metro is LOSING population, I thought Utah was the only state in the Union to have POSITIVE NATIVE BORN POPULATION GROWTH (Since almost all American regions are giving birth to LESS people then are currently living and only seeing an increase in population from Foreign and Domestic In-Migration). I would like to see where the largest city in the most native population increasing state would LOSE 100k people per year?!?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Size does play a role in my personal preferences. I just don't see myself being content in a city smaller then NYC, Boston, Toronto, Chicago, Montreal, etc.

Size is relative - I would love Montreal immensely more then Atlanta, yet Montreal has fewer people metro-wide; the difference is that the city's urban landscape is intensely urban and much larger in that respect. Same for Vancouver - city of 2 million with more urbanized areas then a metro of 4 or 5 million such as Atlanta or Houston; therefore I'd prefer Vancouver's larger densely urbanized area compared /w Atlanta or Houston.

Houston city population is over 2 million. The stat of the metro's is wrong. Houston has 5.6 mil in metro and is back in front of Miami. I agree I would rather be in a larger city than a small city in a large metro. That's why I live in Metro Atlanta. :lol:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats really funny about this list is that Pittsburgh has had ITS WORST year ever in violent crime this past year, but we are still safer then any other big city. Not safe enough for my liking though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Whats really funny about this list is that Pittsburgh has had ITS WORST year ever in violent crime this past year, but we are still safer then any other big city. Not safe enough for my liking though.

Rochester, NY (city) has the highest murder rate in NY State and it finished #6 nationally. But when you take into account its unusually crime free suburban areas and the fact that the city population is only about 1/5 of the metros, its high national ranking starts to seem more logical.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am more of a person that enjoys a urban lifestyle. Therefore my list of best places to live will be different then someone that prefers the less urban cities like Charlotte and Nashville. That why I've put together a top 5 cities list.

1) Washington DC/Baltimore

Great cultrural offerings and seems to be a city that offers opportunities for everyone. Its a true equal opportunity city. Also like the architecture and the cultural offerings.

2)New York City

The center of the universe. The best and the worse of everything that life has to offer.

3)San Francisco Bay

Big city life with lots of recreational opportunity. Although not a large African American Community, its still a viable place for people of all races to succeed.

4)Chicago

Chicago is just my kind of town. 24 hours a day 365 days a year. The city is constantly on the move. They still manage to keep a no attitude midwestern flavor. And they have the best skyline.

5)Philadelphia

Although the city still has a bad reputation. It still remains a big city with a lot to offer young people. Excellent downtown.

Here is my ratings by category.

Most over rated.

Atlanta

Most under rated

St. Louis

Best Vacation city

Honolulu

Most backward

Memphis

Cleanest

Charlotte

Most sophisticated

San Francisco

Up and coming city to watch.

Dallas

Worse weather

Chicago

Best weather

San Diego

Let me know what yall think of my ratings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

3)San Francisco Bay

Big city life with lots of recreational opportunity. Although not a large African American Community, its still a viable place for people of all races to succeed.

The Bay Area's Black Population is 15% Black with less than 500,000 in the Bay. The major Black communites are located in these cities:

- Oakland. They are currently 37% of the overall population of 400,000. Black population has been slowing decline, as evidenced in the fact that Oakland's black population was 45% back in the 70s, 80s and 90s.

- Richmond. 35% of 100,000. Oakland suburb.

- Vallejo. 25% of 115,000. Located on the North Bay.

Elsewhere, the higher number of Blacks live in the East Bay and the North Bay. The lowest numbers are in Frisco, San Jose and the Peninsula due to costs of housing. San Francisco at one time had a whole lot of Black people prior to the 70s. Tragically, new city projects destroyed neighborhoods that Blacks once lived in, reducing it to only 10% of the population of Frisco today. When all was said and done, Blacks decided to relocated across the Bay Bridge and made Oakland their new Bay Area Black haven.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.