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RDV buys Charley's Crab site


mgreven

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I love it! It's very SCB Design.

The whole massing of it reminds me of this project:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3225/246089...196ceda97_b.jpg

The retail lining both Market and Fulton is fabulous. Can anyone figure out what is going on with the riverfront side? Is that a canal going down between the two towers? Also, I started thinking of Alticor's new company Fulton Innovations (eCoupled technology) and it just occurred to me that Amway's HQ is on Fulton and this site is on Fulton. Am I the only one to just now notice that?

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One thing I'm glad to see is that it does not look like a casino (there would be a large "convention center" building at the base somewhere if it were). Although, if they added a casino portion to the Southern end of this project, I don't think I'd mind at all.

The dark gray portion looks like residential, with a lot of patios going on. The other tower looks like a combination of office and maybe residential/hotel. It does have a lot of thought put into it, with motor lobbies (places where cars can pull in and pick up/drop off) at the base of each tower. And utility/loading docks on the South end. The whole thing actually does not take up the entire Market/Fulton and Charley's Crab site, with a lot of space left over.

Is that a JumboTron on the Market/Fulton corner?

And yes Khorosauraus, why would they reintroduce Grandville into that intersection? What a mess that would be.

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Leaving architectural deign out of the conversation for a moment - the bottom few floors on these renderings seem (in my humble opinion) to be why sign and lighting ordinances are necessary. At least a casino would keep all the jumboscreens, neon and flashing lights on the INSIDE of the building...

Quoting an earlier comment in this thread: "holy clown college batman". Now I want to celebrate the river as much as anyone - but we shoudn't make this (in my opinion) the trashy carnival atmosphere of SF's fisherman's wharf. Nothing says "look here INSTEAD of at the river" more than a bunch of electricity sucking signage.

It would be much better to follow the example put forth by Milwaukee's Art museum and their park system along their lakefront. Developers could then build just inland from what would be a major PUBLIC (ie festival and other activities) space along our prominent natural feature. Building a man-made canyon along the riverfront isn't going to make the river a regional draw for anything more than bar patrons.

(flame away if you must...)

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Leaving architectural deign out of the conversation for a moment - the bottom few floors on these renderings seem (in my humble opinion) to be why sign and lighting ordinances are necessary. At least a casino would keep all the jumboscreens, neon and flashing lights on the INSIDE of the building...

Quoting an earlier comment in this thread: "holy clown college batman". Now I want to celebrate the river as much as anyone - but we shoudn't make this (in my opinion) the trashy carnival atmosphere of SF's fisherman's wharf. Nothing says "look here INSTEAD of at the river" more than a bunch of electricity sucking signage.

It would be much better to follow the example put forth by Milwaukee's Art museum and their park system along their lakefront. Developers could then build just inland from what would be a major PUBLIC (ie festival and other activities) space along our prominent natural feature. Building a man-made canyon along the riverfront isn't going to make the river a regional draw for anything more than bar patrons.

(flame away if you must...)

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While the signs in the rendering aren't that pretty, it is just a concept. I'd love to have a Times Square type place with bright lights everywhere. The signage is directed at the street and not the river. I do agree that a cohesive public riverfront would be preferable to the patchwork we have right now.

I do like the overall size and shape of this rendering, though I don't care for some of the details, colors, and extra stuff. Again, as a concept it's fine, but if it were to become an actual proposal I would hope it would be more refined.

It does seem odd that they would make this rendering without some sort of real project and that they'd pull it from their website once it was discovered. But, it also seems unlikely that any project of this scale will be proposed anytime soon. Not just with the current economy, but with the vacancy rate downtown (office, retail) and the weak housing market (condos). Perhaps if the bottom few floors of this development were some sort of mall that generates a lot of traffic it would bring more interest downtown and help fill those vacancies.

Perhaps this rendering is just a proof-of-concept that might be used to lure potential tenants and we won't see anything there for another 5-10 years.

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to assme that this is going to be just residential is silly. Alticore or Amway which ever you prefer would have to relocate its world headquarters there, which from what I understand is a strong possibility. Downtown needs a coorporate presence to sustain all this growth. Something the soft condo market cant do. With all the money rdv has invested in downtown this would be a two pronged investment. One in the growing Alticore, and also to shore up and give stability to all his other investments.

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Leaving architectural deign out of the conversation for a moment - the bottom few floors on these renderings seem (in my humble opinion) to be why sign and lighting ordinances are necessary. At least a casino would keep all the jumboscreens, neon and flashing lights on the INSIDE of the building...

Quoting an earlier comment in this thread: "holy clown college batman". Now I want to celebrate the river as much as anyone - but we shoudn't make this (in my opinion) the trashy carnival atmosphere of SF's fisherman's wharf. Nothing says "look here INSTEAD of at the river" more than a bunch of electricity sucking signage.

It would be much better to follow the example put forth by Milwaukee's Art museum and their park system along their lakefront. Developers could then build just inland from what would be a major PUBLIC (ie festival and other activities) space along our prominent natural feature. Building a man-made canyon along the riverfront isn't going to make the river a regional draw for anything more than bar patrons.

(flame away if you must...)

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to assme that this is going to be just residential is silly. Alticore or Amway which ever you prefer would have to relocate its world headquarters there, which from what I understand is a strong possibility. Downtown needs a coorporate presence to sustain all this growth. Something the soft condo market cant do. With all the money rdv has invested in downtown this would be a two pronged investment. One in the growing Alticore, and also to shore up and give stability to all his other investments.
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Leaving architectural deign out of the conversation for a moment - the bottom few floors on these renderings seem (in my humble opinion) to be why sign and lighting ordinances are necessary. At least a casino would keep all the jumboscreens, neon and flashing lights on the INSIDE of the building...

Quoting an earlier comment in this thread: "holy clown college batman". Now I want to celebrate the river as much as anyone - but we shoudn't make this (in my opinion) the trashy carnival atmosphere of SF's fisherman's wharf. Nothing says "look here INSTEAD of at the river" more than a bunch of electricity sucking signage.

It would be much better to follow the example put forth by Milwaukee's Art museum and their park system along their lakefront. Developers could then build just inland from what would be a major PUBLIC (ie festival and other activities) space along our prominent natural feature. Building a man-made canyon along the riverfront isn't going to make the river a regional draw for anything more than bar patrons.

(flame away if you must...)

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It would seem that the best way to fill something at that corner, would be with some kind of Amway related business, or Amway itself, if it were to be proposed. That being said, what would benefit Amway for relocating itself ten miles west down fulton? Would it be some kind of image thing? They certainly own hotels that could benefit from their presence being there. But other than that it would seem costly? I don't know, everything said is hypothetical anyway. Personally i'd love to see it but all these questions that go thru my mind.

I gotta think somethings being planned there tho, with everything going on around it. I mean, they didn't build the JW for giggles did they?

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It would seem that the best way to fill something at that corner, would be with some kind of Amway related business, or Amway itself, if it were to be proposed. That being said, what would benefit Amway for relocating itself ten miles west down fulton? Would it be some kind of image thing? They certainly own hotels that could benefit from their presence being there. But other than that it would seem costly? I don't know, everything said is hypothetical anyway. Personally i'd love to see it but all these questions that go thru my mind.

I gotta think somethings being planned there tho, with everything going on around it. I mean, they didn't build the JW for giggles did they?

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I doubt Amway would move just for the fun of it. Their current offices would probably have to be obsolete, and they'd probably have to be anticipating major growth to fill a significant portion of this space. I don't work at Amway, so does anyone else know how many white collar people they employ? Are they growing significantly? How many floors would they likely take up? Again, these plans are likely years off, but doing the leg work now makes sense so they're ready to go when they need the space.

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I doubt Amway would move just for the fun of it. Their current offices would probably have to be obsolete, and they'd probably have to be anticipating major growth to fill a significant portion of this space. I don't work at Amway, so does anyone else know how many white collar people they employ? Are they growing significantly? How many floors would they likely take up? Again, these plans are likely years off, but doing the leg work now makes sense so they're ready to go when they need the space.
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to assme that this is going to be just residential is silly. Alticore or Amway which ever you prefer would have to relocate its world headquarters there, which from what I understand is a strong possibility. Downtown needs a coorporate presence to sustain all this growth. Something the soft condo market cant do. With all the money rdv has invested in downtown this would be a two pronged investment. One in the growing Alticore, and also to shore up and give stability to all his other investments.
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From the looks of it the elevators are on the outside of the building in glass. That would mean that they would probally require slightly smaller floors than normal. As you go taller, more area is to be served with elevators. The cool thing is that offices and hotels/condos tend to have diffrent traffic patterns for usage. As a result with both towers being interconnected it makes sense that they could use both towers elevators for both the office and the hotel/condo sections.

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I'd like to advance the idea that in the unlikely event that there is something real behind this, perhaps the project is better served NOT being dragged under a microscope on UP prior to the developers going public with it.

The fact the the images were removed as soon as they were publically posted could be seen as evidence of this.

If this is real, we'll have plenty of time to chatter on like kids on Christmas Eve once something is announced.

I know that's contrary to the spirit of this forum, but sometimes loose lips can sink ships...and no one benefits from that.

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I'd like to advance the idea that in the unlikely event that there is something real behind this, perhaps the project is better served NOT being dragged under a microscope on UP prior to the developers going public with it.

The fact the the images were removed as soon as they were publically posted could be seen as evidence of this.

If this is real, we'll have plenty of time to chatter on like kids on Christmas Eve once something is announced.

I know that's contrary to the spirit of this forum, but sometimes loose lips can sink ships...and no one benefits from that.

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I don't think this will rise to the level of the Mystery Project, if that's what you're worried about localtalent. :P Although I do wonder if UP had anything do with 275 Fulton Place's demise (too much speculation flying about).

In fact, I don't think much more can be said about it at this point unless any more info comes out.

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I don't think this will devolve into Project X-level stupidity (we've all learned our lessons, I'm sure), but does this mean you're going to lock the thread until additional info is available (as happened multiple times with Project X)?

*posted almost entirely tongue in cheek*

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I don't think it's risen to "lock-able" status yet. The problem becomes, is that if I lock it, that adds more legitimacy to it. People will think I'm trying to cover up something. :dontknow: Tell you what, I won't post anything more in this thread if that helps (unless someone warrants some drubbing for stupidity).

Anyway, that's all for me today.

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