Gun Lake Casino

[AlexPKeaton]

Well, aren't we talking about an Indian casino? I've been to a few of them. Before I had been to one I thought these were just stereotypes, but unfortunately they're not. People can do what they want with their money, but is gambling it away something we want to encourage? For the people least able to afford it? You might as well propose building liquor stores in the poorer areas of the city. Is it a perfectly legitimate business? Yes. Is it something that's actually desirable and helps revitalize the community? I doubt it.

The Vegas casinos, despite being tacky, are very professionally run and attract people from all over. People with money. This is not a Vegas casino. Detroit's casinos may be a step up, but it's still not Vegas.

If the purpose of a theoretical downtown casino is to help revitalize the city I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. Detroit's casinos haven't done much. Perhaps they've generated some revenue for a city that desperately needs it, but they haven't exactly made downtown Detroit a desirable place to go.

[GR8scott]

first of all if its not an indian casino its probably never going to happen.

second there are a lot of negatives assosciated with them that I just dont accept. Yes, it will most likely increase petty crime right around it just as a downtown meijers would. I think much of the negatives come from the fact that many casinos are brought into already rundown places to revive them (Hammond, Joliet, Mi city, Detroit, ect. not enhance them) GR has no where near the NEED that these cities had to attract people and money there.

If one every got built I would liken it to an indian casino just outside of downtown Milwaukee. (although I beleive it might be somewhat limited services) I happen to think a casino would only enhance the city as more of a DESTINATION because if you have ever noticed at any casino that I have been to there are ALWAYS plenty of out of state plates and that ussually means out of state $$$$

[DSchoon]

There is plenty of room on and around the site for expansion. Trust me I know this site and the surrounding property very well.

[localtalent]

Well, aren't we talking about an Indian casino? I've been to a few of them. Before I had been to one I thought these were just stereotypes, but unfortunately they're not. People can do what they want with their money, but is gambling it away something we want to encourage? For the people least able to afford it? You might as well propose building liquor stores in the poorer areas of the city. Is it a perfectly legitimate business? Yes. Is it something that's actually desirable and helps revitalize the community? I doubt it.

The Vegas casinos, despite being tacky, are very professionally run and attract people from all over. People with money. This is not a Vegas casino. Detroit's casinos may be a step up, but it's still not Vegas.

If the purpose of a theoretical downtown casino is to help revitalize the city I'm afraid you'll be disappointed. Detroit's casinos haven't done much. Perhaps they've generated some revenue for a city that desperately needs it, but they haven't exactly made downtown Detroit a desirable place to go.

[Rizzo]

Are the moral and economic arguments mutually exclusive?

[AlexPKeaton]

"People can do what they want with their money, but is gambling it away something we want to encourage?" I'd like this clarified a bit so I don't make a faulty assumption...is your opinion that people CAN do what they want with their money or not? And in what way are "we" encouraging it (who is we, by the way? That's always a tricky thing, too)?

<snip>

Don't get me wrong, casinos are no panacea...but folks looking to demonize them should at least fight the battle on honest terms.

So let's be honest, in West Michigan, is this an economic development argument or a moral argument?

[localtalent]

Are the moral and economic arguments mutually exclusive?

[AlexPKeaton]

I think I tend to lean in your direction as well when it comes to free markets, etc. So in that case, I would agree with you that "we" (as you describe it) shouldn't necessarily be encouraging casino developments.

However, I draw the line between encouraging and allowing. Having our government specifically disallow it is to make a stand on the moral or economic development argument that I don't think is justified.

[houseofdon]

must...walk...away...

[localtalent]

If we're going to "allow" casinos, then shouldn't any citizen be able to own and operate them rather than just those of Native American descent? If a government enforced monopoly on a guaranteed money maker isn't encouragement, I don't know what is.

That said, even if the playing field were totally level, I'd still be generally opposed to more casinos. On the "encourage, allow/tolerate, discourage, outright ban" specturm, I'd fall somewhere near "discourage." I suppose the reason is mostly for moral issues, though beyond the simplistic "gambling is a sin" kind. To me it's more about the message it sends, that you can get money for nothing and get rich quick. That sort of attitude can be damaging to society, though it's hard to measure in any objective way.

[jas49503]

first of all if its not an indian casino its probably never going to happen.

second there are a lot of negatives assosciated with them that I just dont accept. Yes, it will most likely increase petty crime right around it just as a downtown meijers would. I think much of the negatives come from the fact that many casinos are brought into already rundown places to revive them (Hammond, Joliet, Mi city, Detroit, ect. not enhance them) GR has no where near the NEED that these cities had to attract people and money there.

If one every got built I would liken it to an indian casino just outside of downtown Milwaukee. (although I beleive it might be somewhat limited services) I happen to think a casino would only enhance the city as more of a DESTINATION because if you have ever noticed at any casino that I have been to there are ALWAYS plenty of out of state plates and that ussually means out of state $$$$

[wingbert]

nobody is going to come to grand rapids from out of state to go to a casino. mostly for the reason that they pretty much have to drive by plenty of casinos before they get to grand rapids.

[downtownGRguy]

Okay. So how do you come to that conclusion? I hope your knowledge of the site isn't just based on driving past it everyday.

Perhaps you'd like to comment on the availability of sewer infrastructure in that area?

[Veloise]

... due to my heritage, and current industry affiliation I very much prefer to see commercial uses within or clustered very close to cities, and rural areas remain in agriculture and open space.

[Floyd Z]

Will this casino have a hotel with it?

[Floyd Z]

Will this casino have a hotel with it?

[DSchoon]

Ha...driving by....thats a good one. Although I might ask you the same.

Actually I have walked nearly every acre of that site with the exception of the approx 22 acres of woods. I also know that the USDA has classified all the acreage with the exception of aforementioned woods non wetlands, they did not have any reason to classify the wooded area one way or the other. I suspect that the remaining 125 acres would provide space for a very large facility. In addition to this a large amount of the property between there and Wayland is in the hands of developers just waiting for the casino to come, includinng the adjacent approx 140 parcel immediately to the north. I have also walked nearly every acre of this parcel...no wetlands.

Regarding sewer, yes there is a lack there. However, with the support of local municipalities drooling over additional tax revenue, I suspect this will be worked out. In any regard a well done casino should generate plenty of revenue to take care of its sewer problem in a multitude of ways.

I will note that my experience was related to a previous use...I have no relationship to the casino whatsoever.

I am not going to weigh in on the casino specifically except to say that due to my heritage, and current industry affiliation I very much prefer to see commercial uses within or clustered very close to cities, and rural areas remain in agriculture and open space.

[wingbert]

... and here's how it works:

"We'll move dirt on the (first) hotel as soon as we can," said Jim Coleman, CEO for the Chippewa's Migizi Economic Development Co. "We move quickly, as everyone found out with the casino," built in six months.

This week's announcement gives immediacy to what many in Standish presumed inevitable - that a casino, once open, would soon spur more tribal development."

Full article here --> http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/20...uild_hotel.html

[localtalent]

... and here's how it works:

"We'll move dirt on the (first) hotel as soon as we can," said Jim Coleman, CEO for the Chippewa's Migizi Economic Development Co. "We move quickly, as everyone found out with the casino," built in six months.

This week's announcement gives immediacy to what many in Standish presumed inevitable - that a casino, once open, would soon spur more tribal development."

Full article here --> http://www.mlive.com/business/index.ssf/20...uild_hotel.html

[wingbert]

It makes you sick to see outside visitors who help produce new jobs and development in a desperately depressed economy?

I just don't understand opposition on the grounds of simply being anti-development....

[wingbert]

That poor reservation full of malnourished Native Americans down by Gun Lake is finally going to get their casino. The Great Spirit is smiling today.

Supreme Court clears Gun Lake casino

High Court rejects opposition group's appeal

GRAND RAPIDS, Mich. (WOOD) - Construction on the Gun Lake casino seems unstoppable as the US Supreme Court declined to hear an appeal from a group opposed to the project.

full story

[GRguy]

Another win for the Casino today.

I know many here do not like the idea of a casino. My sister lives in the area, has some rental properties and every one of her tenants is out of work. If for nothing else, approve it and get the Millions of dollars into the economy. Construction jobs, furniture manufacturing and eventually,staff.

[MJLO]

It is amusing for me to see this still going on. Having been across the country for three years I forgot about it. I give this 23 is enough group, points for tenacity. But it really seems like they are lying to themselves and fighting a futile battle.

[GRDadof3]

The land for the casino has been placed into a trust by the Federal Bureau of Indian Affairs. That, coupled with the Gun Lake Band's compact with the state already back in 2007 (not passed by the Senate yet apparently), means the casino will probably start construction some time this year.

Again, I have a hard time believing this will make a huge dent in downtown entertainment. Bar hoppers downtown aren't going to drive all the way to Wayland on a regular basis (plus casinos make for cheesy meat markets IMO). I actually read a column the other day about the fears that buses will load up Devos Place conventioneers and take them to Wayland to dine and have a good time. Do those people realize that is already being done now, that buses are taking large convention attendees to Rivertown Crossings, Meijer Gardens and other non-downtown sites?

The only area where I see competition is concerts for the VAA. That might explain John Wheeler's recent desire to get a baseball stadium/outdoor concert venue downtown.

I wonder too if the rumors about a downtown casino will start to pick up again this year.

[blueradon]

I didn't really read through some of the previous posts so I'm sorry in advance if I am repeating what someone else said...but I think this is good for Wayland. Some may not think so - but casinos spur development - take Mount Pleasant for example - although it's slightly out of town - and granted that it has CMU - it has gained quite a lot of development since - and I think this may give Wayland a boost for extra commercial property.