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Rida Development Corp's Mixed-Use Complex [Under Construction]

MaXxlife

By MaXxlife
in Orlando

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JFW657 Metropolitan Area

JFW657

Posted
Posted

I'm not so much concerned about the lack of height as I am about the lack of activity on the ground floor.  This is Orlando's one chance to develop a significant parcel into an activity center adjacent SunRail.  Having services here, a place to grab a bite or magazine and wait comfortably (out of weather, away from panhandlers) for a train could make or break the commuting experience for people.   

 

They would have to be missing a few screws to put a development there that was bereft of ample groundfloor activity.

 

I would like to see some fast food franchises in there as well. And of course a newsstand, a coffee & donut/pastry shop & possibly a tobacconist.

 

And I would think there should be a convenience store there too.

 

Given the way 7 Eleven has been expanding lately.... <_<  

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spenser1058 Gigalopolis

spenser1058

Posted
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They would have to be missing a few screws to put a development there that was bereft of ample groundfloor activity.

 

I would like to see some fast food franchises in there as well. And of course a newsstand, a coffee & donut/pastry shop & possibly a tobacconist.

 

And I would think there should be a convenience store there too.

 

Given the way 7 Eleven has been expanding lately.... <_<  

 

Have we lost the Pipe & Pouch on N. Orange just beyond Central? It's been around since God was a child.

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codypet City

codypet

Posted
Posted

Let's all keep in mind also, that even though a highrise isn't getting built on that site, there's a huge prime lot just one block to the north of that one.

 

nofrida.jpg

 

Demo the old BellSouth building The Hub bar & Southeast Steel. Build around the Firestone.

 

Parking garage across the tracks.

 

I thought that lot between the tracks and Garland was a pond for FDOT and the I-4 widening.

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klstorey Whistle-Stop

klstorey

Posted
Posted

Looks like it's state owned, remember this is the property that Mica proposed as the future Greyhound terminal.  Whatever happened to that?

 

And to get us back on the topic (before we get in trouble for being too far off): Do you think that RIDA is talking with those who are developing around Central Station? (I imagine with the city as a go between so that no ones full hand is reveled)  I mean +1, the Greyhound station, that giant tower that was at one time proposed for the :08 property (with bottom floor retail opening onto Gertrude's Walk if I remember correctly (it's a bit harder these days to recall details now that OrlandoSkyscrapers is offline, all those pictures really helped)).

 

Any one of these projects could really change the preferred uses for the Central Station project.  IMHO even one of these projects if ever realized would mean that the RIDA plan should have (or be able to quickly convert) lots of lower level floors to retail. 

 

A second floor retail area with a skybridge over Orange connecting to the courthouse parking garage would create a storm/sun free walk directly from the SunRail/Lynx station.  I use the ones in downtown Tampa quite a bit and love not having to go out in the hot sun.  A Bank of America connection wouldn't be nearly as impressive, unless it was designed to connect all the way to the future WTC site, or whatever comes to that property, as I have zero belief that WTC will be built there. 

 

I'm just concerned that Central Station is being built with only today in mind.  Downtown is changing fast and I don't want this to be a project that is out of date before it ever opens. 

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FLClarkKent Hamlet

FLClarkKent

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These plans just seem... weird. Prime parcel of land, adjacent to sunrail, and your first phase is mid rise apartments and a surface parking lot? How does a surface parking lot generate revenue for a developer? Why would a developer want mid rise apartments when you could (in theory and zoning rules) put up a high rise apartment tower?

These don't seem to be the type of plans that would make a developer a lot of money. And I question whether they're serious about actually developing this parcel.

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Jernigan Town

Jernigan

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Well, as it is commuter rail and whereas 90 percent of the people riding it will be taking it INTO downtown...to work...I would think that the prime use here is office as well as retail to serve those going from the station to other offices.

I don't see the demand to be near the destination of a commuter rail line (any more than living downtown in general).

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bulldogger Town

bulldogger

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Makes you wonder if Dyer is just pushing Rida to just get something in place for the opening of SunRail to say it was done during his term.  Does Rida have the funding lined up to do something better than this proposed complex that looks like it should go out by UCF or Lake Mary or are we just dreaming that Orlando is more than it truly is?  If Rida developed at least a 20 story office building at this location, could our market fill the building?  Plenty of young people want to rent downtown, because what they crave most is a lively bar scene.  Does downtown Orlando have what businesses crave and is our professional market growing at a rate to justify another highrise to come online within 1-2 years?

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alex Hamlet

alex

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I grabbed some pictures off the MPB Conditional Approval document.  

 

To be honest, I'm not that upset with the design or the height.  No, it doesn't live up to the potential of the site, but I find it very pedestrian-scale, which is who the development is ultimately targeting: people getting on and off SunRail.  I like that they broke up the lot into three buildings facing Orange Avenue; many of the new project are so large that they are creating a very homogeneous Uptown.  

 

post-25309-0-72872100-1361374648_thumb.g Orange Avenue Elevation

 

I like that they created a smaller street ("Paseo") that breaks up the lot, as well as two pedestrian plazas.  It adds another dimension to Orange Ave we haven't really seen before.  

 

post-25309-0-03118800-1361374654_thumb.g Paseo Elevation

 

My two biggest concerns are the location of of the garages and the location of the retail.  I think it's very un-pedestrian for people to see two large garages when they get off the train:

 

post-25309-0-54931000-1361374665_thumb.g SunRail Elevation

 

For the retail, I'm surprised it doesn't connect at all with the pedestrian Plazas.  Imagine people grabbing a bite to eat or visiting the inevitable froyo shop before a train or a meeting at the courthouse.

 

post-25309-0-75978000-1361374659_thumb.g

 

Even if this doesn't turn out to be a stellar new landmark for Downtown, I personally think it's better than what I expected, and it will also pressure the adjacent empty lots to become denser.

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jack Burg

jack

Posted
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Not enough demand for any office unless one tenant wants to build there own building. A more expensive building(20 stories) means higher rents. There is a cap on how much people will pay to rent downtown. Build what can be absorbed. 

 

Rida is doing the hotel. The apartments is Crescent. They have a few site under construction in Tampa. Nice buildings too. They seem very serious about moving forward. They are very bullish on the multifamily market. 

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bulldogger Town

bulldogger

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The surface lot can be dug up later and they can build up in 10-20 years if rail and downtown follows with further growth.  I think they should have some small retail spaces available at the base of the garage, though.  On the Gertrude's Walk side of the garage, they show trees and a burm to insulate it from the train.  It would be nice if they provided a ground level "visor" for pedestrian shade.

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gibby Burg

gibby

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I kinda like it except for the garage elevations.  They could fix that up.  Steel House garage looks pretty decent but this one will be more visible.  I wonder how the Livingston access will work with the Lymmo lane being there.  It's hard to tell if it lines up with State Street but it looks like it might.

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FLClarkKent Hamlet

FLClarkKent

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Most disappointing thing I've ever seen for this city and ANY transit oriented project. Horrible. But oh well.

It's not as bad as I feared. It seems they've ditched the faux-Mediterranean Revival style architecture for something more modern.

 

But the name "Central Station" implies that it's connected to transit and oriented towards the growing Lynx Central Station. But the site plans suggest that all of the retail, office space and residential units will be oriented towards Orange Avenue. The project seemingly turns its back on Lynx Central Station. That's definitely a missed opportunity, and City Hall would be wise to have the developers address this issue.

 

Retail in the bottom level of the parking garage would be the simplest solution. I could see folks waiting for a SunRail trail grabbing a coffee at a Starbucks or picking up a pack of smokes at a 7-11 (you just know another 7-11 would set up shop here).

 

I still believe that they could go significantly higher with residential in this location and still turn a healthy profit. We often think of the downtown SunRail stops as being the final destination stops. But this location could also be the embarkation point for young urbanites who want to live downtown, but work in the 'burbs. If I worked at either ORMC or Florida Hospital, I could live downtown and take a train to work. I could even get to my office space in Heathrow via train a bus connector. Lots of possibilities with this parcel. I hope the powers that be work on this further.

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prahaboheme City

prahaboheme

Posted
Posted

The parking garages are seemingly disconnected from the actual buildings.  Why aren't they enclosed in the buildings to eliminate the "parking garage" look that contributes to the unattractiveness of the entire project.

 

I'm not disillusioned about  Orlando and believe we were ever going to get a Rockefeller Center on this lot, but I was expecting, at minimum, a development that aspired to transit oriented principles and sound urbanism.  Instead, we have a couple of clumsy midrises OVERSHADOWED by parking garages.  Let's not forget that the first impression most people will have of Central Station is coming from I-4, or from SunRail.  They will be greated by parking garages -- I don't care how much you dress them up, it's lipstick on a pig.

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Jernigan Town

Jernigan

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Posted

If you live downtown...

1. This developments proximity to transit is only closer by a matter of blocks to other towers. It may be desirable but not at a relative premium.

2. You will have more frequent service to both hospitals via the N/S LYMMO expansion than you would with SunRail. Depending on timing, LYNX may even prove to be a better option with 4 buses heading south on Orange and at least 1 heading north at 15 minute intervals.

3. If you work in Maitland, Lake Mary etc that's great but you will most likely need to connect to your job via another service like LYNX or a shuttle. There may eventually be a TOD there, with offices, but at that point why not just live there is car free urban living is your thing.

Some people will take the train outbounds...but are they the same people who will be shelling out downtown rents?

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