"The Collection at Forsyth"

[perimeter285]

Taubman Centers, Inc. is developing a new full-enclosed mall as part of a master community planned on McFarland Parkway and Georgia 400 in South Forsyth county. I work on Windward Parkway, one exit south of the development. Taubman has been planning this development for 2+ years now, and has all of the necessary approvals to break ground. The project will include office, hotel, and residential components in addition to the mall which is tentatively being called "The Collection at Forsyth."

Taubman is courting high-end retailers on the level of those seen in Phipps, Lenox, and The Streets of Buckhead. There is a tenant battle ensuing between the Taubman mall and the Forum at Prospect Park development two exits south. All of these developments are going after the increasingly affluent Forsyth County residents.

I have no doubt that Taubman will build a high-end center as their history has proved that they are very innovative with their malls, even though an enclosed mall is no longer the trend. Mall at Millenia in Orlando and International Plaza in Tampa are examples of Taubman centers, and both boast retailers that have yet to enter the Atlanta market.

Look for more to come on this retail development as the war for North Fulton/South Forsyth high-end retail heats up!

On a side note - I hope that these developments do not end up making North Point Mall experience the same fate that Gwinnett Place has experienced.

[ATLman1]

Taubman Centers, Inc. is developing a new full-enclosed mall as part of a master community planned on McFarland Parkway and Georgia 400 in South Forsyth county. I work on Windward Parkway, one exit south of the development. Taubman has been planning this development for 2+ years now, and has all of the necessary approvals to break ground. The project will include office, hotel, and residential components in addition to the mall which is tentatively being called "The Collection at Forsyth."

Taubman is courting high-end retailers on the level of those seen in Phipps, Lenox, and The Streets of Buckhead. There is a tenant battle ensuing between the Taubman mall and the Forum at Prospect Park development two exits south. All of these developments are going after the increasingly affluent Forsyth County residents.

I have no doubt that Taubman will build a high-end center as their history has proved that they are very innovative with their malls, even though an enclosed mall is no longer the trend. Mall at Millenia in Orlando and International Plaza in Tampa are examples of Taubman centers, and both boast retailers that have yet to enter the Atlanta market.

Look for more to come on this retail development as the war for North Fulton/South Forsyth high-end retail heats up!

On a side note - I hope that these developments do not end up making North Point Mall experience the same fate that Gwinnett Place has experienced.

I have seen the site plan for it. There are a lot of cool retailers coming, but I can't speak on which ones. This will definitely be a great development.

Also, my company is developing an apartment community off of exit 13 so be on the lookout for a groundbreaking this July!

[Martinman]

I just wonder if this is going to be as high-end as everyone thinks. The advantage Millenia and International Plaza have is being the premier luxury destination in those markets and millions upon millions of tourists to draw from.

Also I thought I read something about the Prospect Park development having trouble getting off the ground. Has construction started on anything yet?

[perimeter285]

I just wonder if this is going to be as high-end as everyone thinks. The advantage Millenia and International Plaza have is being the premier luxury destination in those markets and millions upon millions of tourists to draw from.

Also I thought I read something about the Prospect Park development having trouble getting off the ground. Has construction started on anything yet?

I think it could work with the hysteria I sometimes witness in the northern suburbs about going inside the perimeter. There are literally folks up in the North Fulton/South Forsyth area that think Lenox Mall is "ghetto." They avoid the area for that reason, however ridiculous it might be. Dallas supports 2 or 3 high-end retail clusters and I think we could as well, but whether it will be on the same level as Millenia and IP will remain to be seen.

Prospect Park has definitely had trouble getting off the ground. I don't know what has been the biggest factor in the delays, whether it's construction costs, zoning, or just the economy in general. Construction is definitely underway, but I think it's mainly the anchors that are being built right now. A large Whole Foods and a movie theater are the only confirmed tenants. I pass by the site frequently, and while they do work on it, it is not taking shape quickly by any stretch of the imagination.

As someone in the hotel industry, I was very interested to see how the high-end hotel component of Prospect Park, The Stanbury Manor, would materialize. So far, no word on whether that is under construction.

[Lady Celeste]

I have been well aware of this mall for quite some time. The proposal is about as old as the proposed Windward Marta Station. Southern Forsyth has really changed so I guess that I can see why Taubman is revisiting this proposal again. Median household incomes ranks it in the top wealthiest counties in the USA. The current location is ripe for further development. With the widening of GA 400 up to GA 141 (Peachtree Pkwy) ease of entry and exit should not be too drastic of an avent.

I can remember when the North Point are was nothing more than woodlands. At the time is was pretty far for most Atlantans. Now we have another proposal for yet another high end mall. At the time...for those old enough or those who have lived here long enough to remember...North Point Mall was supposed to be the high end alternative to Lenox/Phipps/Perimeter Mall. The execution of the mall is high end...unfortunately the mall itself could not keep it's high end edge.

I say all of that to say this. This new mall WILL NOT be in direct competition with Lenox Mall and Phipps Plaza. Quite the contrary. It will be in conjunction with it. GA 400 will be a sort of high end retail corridor. Lenox/Phipps being the king anchoring the south and The Collection anchoring the north. One reason why the new mall will not compete with Lenox/Phipps is simple. While southern Forsyth and northern Fulton counties have extremely high average household incomes, the super rich or generational wealthy continue to choose Buckhead or closer end suburbs. The Buckhead area (Lenox/Phipps/Streets of Buckhead) will continue to have the uber-luxury retail. Based on sheer numbers, any uber luxury retailer would bank on Buckhead first. It's pure logic because of the amount of foot traffic potential in the Buckhead area (tourist/conventioneers/central location).

Perimeter Mall will continue to thrive as well. Well over 100,000 daytime workers have access to this area. It also is bordered by two of some of metro Atlanta's most affluent suburbs...Sandy Springs and Dunwoody. If I have to worry about a location, I would consider The Mall of Georgia (Nordstrom) and North Point Mall to be potentially hurt by this new mall. They both are n the same general area. I personally feel that the uber stores will stay in Buckhead, Perimeter will maintain is Dunwoody housewife appeal and the new mall in Forsyth will be a prong below L/P but a prong above Peri.

That's just my feeling.

[Lady Celeste]

I think it could work with the hysteria I sometimes witness in the northern suburbs about going inside the perimeter. There are literally folks up in the North Fulton/South Forsyth area that think Lenox Mall is "ghetto." They avoid the area for that reason, however ridiculous it might be.

I also would like to address the quote above.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The person(s) saying this probably could not even afford to purchase something at Lenox...other than a cup of java at Starbucks. I know of noone in my ranks who would even use the word "ghetto" to describe a place in which they feel uncomfortable. That is so juvenile. These people must be very young...in which case they probably can't even purchase a scarf out of Neiman Marcus. It can be a little crowded at times during the midweek...I rarely go on weekends...but rarely am I there where I would feel that it's "ghetto"...which to me is code word for something else.

I loathe spinless people and I wished they would just say what they really feel. Even if I disagree, at least I can respect you.

I apologize for getting off topic.

[SAV]

Buckhead also has the rest of Metro Atlanta to support it. Not just Ga 400. Plus when visitors want to shop in Atlanta they go to buckhead, not those other places. Everyone know buckhead

[perimeter285]

I also would like to address the quote above.

That has to be one of the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. The person(s) saying this probably could not even afford to purchase something at Lenox...other than a cup of java at Starbucks. I know of noone in my ranks who would even use the word "ghetto" to describe a place in which they feel uncomfortable. That is so juvenile. These people must be very young...in which case they probably can't even purchase a scarf out of Neiman Marcus. It can be a little crowded at times during the midweek...I rarely go on weekends...but rarely am I there where I would feel that it's "ghetto"...which to me is code word for something else.

I loathe spinless people and I wished they would just say what they really feel. Even if I disagree, at least I can respect you.

I apologize for getting off topic.

I agree Celeste. These are people of all ages. People I work with. Customers of mine. Residents of North Fulton (and other areas). They do not venture inside the perimeter EVER. Maybe they're not into the fashionable enough to get over the misconceptions about intown life. It's the same mentality that has blocked Marta in so many place over the years. If you read any of the articles in AJC in which people can comment, it proves that ignorance still reigns supreme.

The one I can recall is the article about Six Flags lowering their prices. You should have seen all of the comments to the tune of "I won't go there because it's all thugs" and such.

My point in the previous post was that this ignorance may lead to bliss for the new Taubman center, but probably at the expense of North Point.

[Hybrid0NE]

I think it could work with the hysteria I sometimes witness in the northern suburbs about going inside the perimeter. There are literally folks up in the North Fulton/South Forsyth area that think Lenox Mall is "ghetto." They avoid the area for that reason, however ridiculous it might be.

Wow. I didn't feel like I was getting a "ghetto" experience at Lenox when my tax rebate was exhausted in less than an hour. I think I'll continue to avoid the "north 400" until it joins reality.

Am I the only one that thinks Metro Atlanta is over-malled to begin with?

Lenox

Phipps Plaza

Perimeter

Mall of Georgia

"...Forsyth"?

North Point

Town Center

Atlantic Station

Arbor Place

Stonecrest

Gwinnett Place

Southlake

Northlake

Cumberland

Shannon Southpark

Discover Mills

North Dekalb

Gallery at South Dekalb

Greenbriar

That's already 19, not including the dozens of "luxury" strips scattered around. Isn't there something in the works in the far-South parts of the metro? Also awhile ago, I heard a rumor about something going up in Cherokee/Far-North Cobb.

[wmsweatman]

I was wondering if anyone has heard any recent news about Taubman's mall project in Forsyth? I read a post by someone in another forum (not Urban Planet) that this mall would be no different than the Premium Outlet Mall in Dawsonville, that it would in no way compete with Phipps or Lenox. I really doubt this is the case. From what I've seen, this project looks top notch and high end! I know the economy does not look good right now, but I'm sure Taubman looks to the time in the future when the malls expects to open to forecast the economy and not judge their development plans on what is happening today. I'm sure the economy will turn around by the time they want to open the doors to their new development. What does everyone else think? I'd love to hear what is going on with the development.

Mark

[Martinman]

The last I've heard of it was that the county approved the rezoning so they could build a 12 story office building as part of the project. I suspect its probably suffering from the same economy related problems that have affected Midtown retail. Retailers have basically "frozen" expansion plans according to Cousins CEO who just opened one of their Avenue developments in the county.

article:Taubman's first foray into Georgia

Another article said that they needed committments from anchor stores by summer 2008 in order to stay on schedule for a 2011 opening. I haven't seen or heard anything on whether or not that happened.

[wmsweatman]

Thanks for the input. I just hope this project gets off the ground and comes to fruition. I'm sure the economy will recover eventually within a year or so, and will hopefully be strong by the time this development plans to open.

[DigitalSky]

There is a tenant battle ensuing between the Taubman mall and the Forum at Prospect Park development

Well one can be "Phipps North" and the other "Lenox North" lol

[Martinman]

Forsyth county recently approved 10-year property tax abatements and discount sewer rates for the project. The only requirement is that they deliver the project by December 2015 but Taubman hopes to finish by 2011. According to the article , it appears the retail has been reduced to 650,000 sf with two department stores and will now be a "lifestlye center" rather than an enclosed mall.

Article

[101_ce]

I doubt that it will open as a very high end mall. No mall really opens as high end, they earn it over the years. (Well, Phipps opened as High end and so did Tysons Galleria) But there are very few malls that do open as high end. Northlake Mall by Taubman opened in Charlotte in 2005 and promised to be high end like SouthPark, but it is just a notch above a regular mall/ (for those of you who do not know about SouthPark: it is an upscale mall in South Charlotte with one of the two Nordstroms in the state and the only Neiman Marcus in the Carolinas. It also houses the large 4 level Belk main flagship (one not like Phipps, but like a Nordstrom) and a very large 4 story Dillards and has boutiques such as Tiffany, Ralph Lauren, Louis Vuitton, Lacoste, Burberry, BCBG & more.)

[Lady Celeste]

I doubt that it will open as a very high end mall. No mall really opens as high end, they earn it over the years. (Well, Phipps opened as High end and so did Tysons Galleria) But there are very few malls that do open as high end. Northlake Mall by Taubman opened in Charlotte in 2005 and promised to be high end like SouthPark, but it is just a notch above a regular mall/ (for those of you who do not know about SouthPark: it is an upscale mall in South Charlotte with one of the two Nordstroms in the state and the only Neiman Marcus in the Carolinas. It also houses the large 4 level Belk main flagship (one not like Phipps, but like a Nordstrom) and a very large 4 story Dillards and has boutiques such as Tiffany, Ralph Lauren, Louis Vuitton, Lacoste, Burberry, BCBG & more.)

A Belk and a Dillards?.....ummmm.......okay, yeah!

Nieman Marcus...what would be metro Atlanta's third...is reported to have already signed. There are other luxury retailers that have also reported given Taubman intent. The demographics in the area are quite appropiate for a luxury mall....however as someone on an urban site, I am more excited about The Streets of Buckhead...which will offer retailers new to the southeast and the country...and Midtown Mile. I think most Atlantans would not blink an eye if this mall never occurs. We are saturated with malls as it is now...and upscale lifestyle centers (The Avenues in Fayette, East Cobb, Forsyth and Peachtree Corners).

[perimeter285]

A Belk and a Dillards?.....ummmm.......okay, yeah!

Nieman Marcus...what would be metro Atlanta's third...is reported to have already signed. There are other luxury retailers that have also reported given Taubman intent. The demographics in the area are quite appropiate for a luxury mall....however as someone on an urban site, I am more excited about The Streets of Buckhead...which will offer retailers new to the southeast and the country...and Midtown Mile. I think most Atlantans would not blink an eye if this mall never occurs. We are saturated with malls as it is now...and upscale lifestyle centers (The Avenues in Fayette, East Cobb, Forsyth and Peachtree Corners).

Where is the 2nd NM? I only know of Lenox.

[Lady Celeste]

Where is the 2nd NM? I only know of Lenox.

I'm sorry, I meant second...thank you for the inquiry because I defintiely don't want to give out erroneous information.

[perimeter285]

I think we deserve a 2nd one though. It'd be nice if it were part of either SOB or Midtown Mile.

[eastatlanta119]

I think we deserve a 2nd one though. It'd be nice if it were part of either SOB or Midtown Mile.

If we did get another one I doubt it would be right down the street from the other. My hope is that we could get a Barney's, and I would love for it go on the Mile, although I think it'll be a while until a department store like that gains real confidence in the

corridor. But there were those rumors of a Saks at 12th and Midtown...

[Martinman]

As reported in the Business Chronicle, Neimans is in fact planning another Atlanta area store. My guess would be either the Forsyth mall or Prospect Park. See the Lenox/Phipps thread for other stores mentioned in the article.

[arkula]

I have a hard time getting excited about more malls coming to Atlanta, because the malls we have are struggling overall. North Point is missing two anchors...why can't Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom(?) open up there? Just knock down the ugly old L&T and Parisian and latch on...it would make North Point truly competitive again and give them an edge they don't have now. Why does it seem everybody wants this to be a dead mall? It deserves more credit than it gets.

[xivinrah]

I have a hard time getting excited about more malls coming to Atlanta, because the malls we have are struggling overall. North Point is missing two anchors...why can't Neiman Marcus and Nordstrom(?) open up there? Just knock down the ugly old L&T and Parisian and latch on...it would make North Point truly competitive again and give them an edge they don't have now. Why does it seem everybody wants this to be a dead mall? It deserves more credit than it gets.

I agree. It's a bit overkill don't you think? You've got North Point, Perimeter, and the multitude of other shopping plazas in, around, and between those two areas... and now you want to build two more high end malls - The Collection at Forsyth and Prospect Park? Personally I think that the Northern Suburbs/Exurbs are already over-saturated with retail centers.

[caribou9]

http://www.taubman.com/leasing/321.html

It's not "The Collection at Forysth" anymore I guess, but "North Atlanta Center". How creative and luxurious that sounds.

[DAP433]

Even if it somehow manages to materialize, it will not be as upscale as originally purposed. Looks like Phipps/Lenox will continue to dominate the upscale shopping in Atlanta.