2035 Triangle Regional Transit Vision Plan

[Spatula]

Conversely NOVA is much more urban than it used to be, and probably would have been, had it not been for the metro rail. Ballston and Rosslyn and other 'nodes' simply wouldn't exist.

[Jones_]

Contrast that with Portland's light rail, which started in 1987, has 57 miles of track in a metro of 2.2 million, and 12.6% use. Portland's transit system has significantly influenced how the region has developed.

 

The lesson to take from this is that rail by itself is not enough. The city has to engage in deliberate land-use regulation for anything to come of transit. Same could be said for Washington DC's system, which is another success story that can't be ignored. The other lesson is that you get what you pay for. Portland and DC both spent more on their systems than Atlanta. A system has to be large enough to offer network benefits.

I'm not very familiar with how it works but imagine the urban growth boundary in Portland was key in their system's success versus MARTA trying to succeed where unbridled sprawl was practically encouraged. 

[NCMike1981]

Based on reading stories on the subject I doubt if Wake County will join Durham and Orange counties in reference to light rail until republicans lose their majority on the county commision...I think they should at least put it to the ballot so people can vote on it...

[kermit]

Its going to be tough for the Wake County comission to ignore the very clear request from the RTP foundation for rail transit to the park.

[Atowwn]

Its going to be tough for the Wake County comission to ignore the very clear request from the RTP foundation for rail transit to the park.

Let's hope so. But they are in their own world sometime!

[orulz]

RTP's master plan calls for commuter rail, which is sensible, but also proposes a meandering light rail line that basically hits every major and minor street in the park. If you think VTA in Silicon Valley has poor ridership per mile, just wait until something like that gets built. I'm fully on board with the commuter rail line, but hopefully their light rail proposal never sees the light of day.

[DanRNC]

Coble may be seeing the light. Maybe he had to go out like the rest of the working masses and got caught on that disaster known as I-40 for a couple of hours.

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/07/11/4000288/wakes-coble-appears-ready-to-move.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

[ctl]

Coble feels political pressure. However, don't jump to the conclusion that he will endorse a rail-centric plan focused on DTR. 

[DanRNC]

Yea, but his endorsement isn't needed-just the willingness to let this go to a vote.

Edited July 12, 2014 by DanRNC

[orulz]

I have a hard time believing that Paul Coble would support any additional tax for transit, so my hunch is that this is mostly election year posturing. His term is up in December, so he is feeling the heat and knows he would get kicked out if he keeps obstructing the commission from even voting on it. Supporting a vote is different from supporting a plan.

Although, he did say before that he might support a BRT-focused plan, so maybe that is what we should expect to see this time around.

[Jones_]

I've lost track of things to a degree....are there any publicly released plans involving Wake County that are say at least 10% engineered? Can any portion of the station design from the diesel propulsion units be used still? There is a ton of TTA owned right of way and property acquired for stations that is idle. I remember a lot of discussion about whether to use CSX or Norfolk Southern tracks through downtown but can't remember how conceptual that was vs. being able to start up design again...

[orulz]

There are others here who could possibly answer better than me.

 

I've lost track of things to a degree....are there any publicly released plans involving Wake County that are say at least 10% engineered? Can any portion of the station design from the diesel propulsion units be used still?

The alternatives analysis got pretty detailed, see the "conceptual plans and profiles." I do not believe this could be considered even 10% design. Not sure how much of this if any was recycled from the 2005 plan.

 

There is a ton of TTA owned right of way and property acquired for stations that is idle. I remember a lot of discussion about whether to use CSX or Norfolk Southern tracks through downtown but can't remember how conceptual that was vs. being able to start up design again...

The plan that everybody seemed to be settling on was entering Morgan Street near Central Prison, and running in mixed traffic on Morgan and turning north onto Harrington, and then rejoining the CSX corridor. This was before Citrix and before the present plans for Union Station in the Viaduct Building were set, so Triangle Transit has gone on record saying that the entire route through downtown Raleigh will have to be reconsidered. Personally, I prefer some variant of Alternative 5, which provides the best coverage downtown as well as the best connection to Union Station, but costing more to build and giving longer run times through downtown.

[orulz]

Just an update on some rail related things around the triangle.

The grade separation at Hopson Road is coming along. The piers for the bridge are mostly complete, as well as the embankment for the new alignment. They have put down the tracks, ties, and ballast for most of the planned double track segment.

Work is underway in earnest at Morrisville Parkway as well. Clearing and grading is in progress for the road and rail realignments.

There are several studies underway or recently completed.

1. The Traffic Separation Study for Durham was completed in October 2013. Recommendations include up to nine new grade separations in the long term, with improvements to the downtown crossings at Roxboro and Mangum getting top priority.
2. The "NC 54 + more" study by CAMPO, Cary, and Morrisville is looking at how to widen NC54 as well as how to deal with the grade crossings at McCrimmon and Morrisville Carpenter as well as the future extension of  Airport Blvd. This is supposed to be complete in December.
3. Cary seems to have put the plan for a grade separation at Walker Street on the back burner for now, and instead they are focusing on building a grade separation at Harrison Avenue over one or both sets of tracks. This is currently being studied by the town. The second public meeting is August 5th.
4. West Raleigh-East Cary study (WREC) studying every grade crossing between Royal Street and East Maynard. This study just got its funding this month.

Once these studies are complete, and combined with the SEHSR Tier 2 EIS which is still not technically complete, there will be a plan in place for every grade crossing on the SEHSR corridor in the triangle.

[Euphorius]

Something tells me that Coble's change of heart was brought on because he knew this bill was coming up for a vote and figured it would be a moot issue since the voters would probably approve a sales tax increase for education over transit. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/07/17/4012140/education-sales-tax-bill-delayed.html

[DanRNC]

McCorny will most likely veto this bill due to its impact on Charlotte, which lives on these type of taxes. 

[Jones_]

Something tells me that Coble's change of heart was brought on because he knew this bill was coming up for a vote and figured it would be a moot issue since the voters would probably approve a sales tax increase for education over transit. http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/07/17/4012140/education-sales-tax-bill-delayed.html

Speaking of which, this bill is some of the most blatant partisan BS I have ever seen. "you get teachers or trains but not both". Who even conceives of this crap?

[ctl]

I'm no fan of Republicans but remember: McCrory carried Wake County in 2012. What happens this November is anyone's guess, but there aren't many analysts who think the Democrats can retake either side of the General Assembly.

[Spatula]

Worth noting that a lot of democrats in the Triangle voted for McCrory because they wrongly associated him with Charlotte's rail system.

 

Not that I think the dems can retake the general assembly... they'd have to win by a very large margin statewide to overcome the gerrymandering, and they're just not organizing or running the candidates to do that. They're not even fielding candidates in a third of the seats.

Edited July 25, 2014 by Spatula

[RALNATIVE]

I'm shocked to see the words "light rail" and "Raleigh" in the same article:

 

http://www.newsobserver.com/2014/08/09/4062223/raleighs-futuristic-vision-includes.html?sp=/99/100/&ihp=1

[Jones_]

Its sort of silly (or maybe telling) that the article used the word "futuristic" What? This is all basic sh$t good cities do already. OTB people drive me crazy. I assume the "don't put a greenway near me" is because they think crime comes via a greenway now. 

Anyway, I am really curious about the cycle track route. Will it be useful? 

Not to hate too much on the architects but I find it funny they are coordinating these get togethers and yet that building ignores the city around it (Peace St in particular) as bad as any suburban building. 

Sorry so off topic....

[Euphorius]

The comments are sad. There is one guy saying people should ride their bikes on the sidewalks, and another that literally said he is all for suburban sprawl. 

[Spatula]

N&O comments are about on par with youtube comments if they had an extra chromosome.

 

Urbanism is "Social engineering", "thrust upon people who don't want it". As if suburbanism wasn't thrust upon us? As if it weren't also social engineering?

[DanRNC]

There are usually more comments on transit than murders on the N&O website. Ron Paul New World Order conspiracy types who think mass transit is akin to communism.  

[Spatula]

Government subsidized roads: the free market alternative to government subsidized rail.

[DanRNC]

The funny thing is these people never have a problem with the bloated budget for the military which essentially supports our aerospace industry that would be bankrupt if it relied on the free market.