2035 Triangle Regional Transit Vision Plan

[js4life]

The DOLRT was DOA since the NCGA got involved. Remember this project is on a extremely tight deadline schedule just to receive state funding let alone federal. Duke is getting most of the flack but NS could ultimately kill this project either way

[InitialD]

14 hours ago, southslider said:

Develop a new alignment that avoids them. Instead of Erwin Rd, stay along 501 to Durham Freeway.

Or just eminent domain the land. 

Edited February 28, 2019 by InitialD

[southslider]

41 minutes ago, InitialD said:

Or just eminent domain the land. 

But Duke would litigate any condemnation.

[Crabpeople]

It's unfortunate that various people from Duke can't admit they are trying to kill the project because they think it's a boondoggle, as that would be a huge PR problem.

[Seaboard Fellow]

The LRT proposed route could be modified to continue on US 501 north to Durham Freeway. This route could then follow Durham Freeway to the proposed 9th station where it would connect to the current planned alignment.  This alignment would still allow you to serve Duke, help redevelop a blighted Hillsborough Road, and open up transfer options for the planned “West Durham” commuter rail stop.  Most importantly, it would reduce costs and potential conflicts. I believe this alignment would also create more opportunity for TOD. Along this alignment I can envision stops in the Morreene Road area, and the Fulton Street area. 

Duke could make amends by reviving its people mover and extending it to the Fulton Street station . 

Edited March 2, 2019 by Seaboard Fellow

[kermit]

1 hour ago, Seaboard Fellow said:

The LRT proposed route could be modified to continue on US 501 north to Durham Freeway. This route could then follow Durham Freeway to the proposed 9th station where it would connect to the current planned alignment.  This alignment would still allow you to serve Duke, help redevelop a blighted Hillsborough Road, and open up transfer options for the planned “West Durham” commuter rail stop.  Most importantly, it would reduce cost and potential conflicts. I believe this alignment would also create more opportunity for TOD. Along this alignment I can envision stops in the Morreene Road area, and the Fulton Street area. 

Duke could make amends by reviving its people mover and extending it to the Fulton Street station . 

Yea, the only question is how will the ridership models change. Will bypassing Duke by a few hundred feet make the line unfundable? It all depends on some BS travel demand models that have been calibrated in other places.

I really hope they can make it work. I also really hope that the "University of Southern New Jersey" pays a big price for their misjudgements. But the DOLRT will still need to navigate some serious NCRR concerns in downtown Durham.

[southslider]

8 hours ago, kermit said:

But the DOLRT will still need to navigate some serious NCRR concerns in downtown Durham.

Charlotte just opened a LRT line running along NCRR for multiple miles. NCRR is a cake walk compared to the University of South Jersey.

[Merthecat]

The DOLRT fiasco has now become the example of what not to do in a new Strong Towns article:

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/3/21/the-folly-of-go-big-or-go-home-transit

[ctl]

On 3/2/2019 at 7:03 AM, southslider said:

Charlotte just opened a LRT line running along NCRR for multiple miles. NCRR is a cake walk compared to the University of South Jersey.

Charlotte's LR uses NCRR ROW from 32nd St to Pumpernickel Rd (~2.5 miles). South of 32nd St through the city center to Woodlawn Rd (6 miles), the LR reuses an old freight line that Norfolk Southern owned outright but had ceased to use by the 1990s if not sooner. South of Woodlawn, there are another 5 miles of LR in NS ROW but that's a lower-density environment, like the north end above 32nd St.

My point is, Charlotte would have had a tremendous and perhaps insurmountable problem putting LR through the center of the city without this serendipity. Durham ain't havin' any such luck with NCRR between Duke St and Roxboro St.

Edited March 22, 2019 by ctl

[kermit]

And the plug has been officially pulled on DOLRT: https://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/news/2019/03/27/gotriangle-to-nix-durham-orange-light-rail-transit.html

I guess Duke is comfortable admitting that they are not as smart as the folks at John's Hopkins who have heavy rail in the basement of their hospital and research facility.

[ctl]

I don't defend Duke's decisions, but as an electrical engineer I will point out that EMI from an above-ground catenary and EMI from a deep-buried electrified third-rail are quite different. Perhaps the systems in Minneapolis and Houston are better comparisons.

As if it matters anymore. 

[Merthecat]

It's sad that it came to this, but I think GoTriangle absolutely made the right decision to put an end to this ever-escalating project instead of continue to patch things up.  At this point the line was hardly even worth it.  What disappoints me most is the impact this will have on land use plans at the planned station areas.  Durham was on track to build a fair amount of affordable housing along the light rail, and now who knows what might happen to those plans.

Whatever happens in the future regarding transit planning in the Durham-Orange region, it needs to be something fresh rather than trying to someday resurrect this project.

[ctl]

With both Raleigh and Durham-Orange having flirted with and then walked away from LR, the stage is set for commuter train service over the NCRR between Mebane/Hillsborough/Durham on one end and Garner/Clayton/Selma on the other. It's a complicated concept because so many players are involved -- municipalities, counties, NCDOT/NCRR, and NS. On the other hand, we're not talking 10 figures here.  I'm guessing it will take 10 years if a serious effort is launched quickly.  

Edited March 29, 2019 by ctl

[KJHburg]

The GoRaleigh transportation plan with Bus Rapid Transit, bikelanes and more 

https://goraleigh.org/sites/default/files/final_high_res_boards_8.5x11.pdf

[DCMetroRaleigh]

On 3/22/2019 at 10:46 PM, Merthecat said:

The DOLRT fiasco has now become the example of what not to do in a new Strong Towns article:

https://www.strongtowns.org/journal/2019/3/21/the-folly-of-go-big-or-go-home-transit

So embarrassing 

[nicholas]

While not inherently regional, one thing that I think all of the Triangle cities could benefit from are separate bicycle lanes.  This past weekend, a temporary cycle track was installed along Harrington St in the Warehouse District.  While Raleigh has added bike lanes on a few streets such as Hillsborough, they ride right against the flow of traffic with nothing preventing the careless driver from wandering out of his lane and endanger cyclists, and given how wide many of the streets are throughout downtown, I think they can be added relatively easy to some of the lower-volume streets such as Harrington and Jones.  I think streets that carry lots of vehicular traffic such as Hillsborough and Glenwood should mostly be left alone, but adjacent roads should definitely be prioritized for bicycles.

[Jones_]

I know city staff get paid to do this, but it might e fun to try and sketch out a useful network of curb separated bike lanes and cycle tracks within the individual cities. Useful enough to get a bike to within easy walking distance of most of a downtown. Maybe we are so backed into a corner on this that we might could consider an elevated cycle path/track in places. There are a fair number of people biking around downtown Raleigh at all hours of the day now. 

[RiverwoodCLT]

 The Lynx Blue line save Southend from being a place you did not want to go.   It is a different place than it was 30 years ago.  Over a Billion dollars have been invested in Southend.

Now we are going to see how the north part of line will develop.  So far we have see a lot of development near uptown.   University City is now being to show some life in new development.

It you put the LRT in the right place. it will have development like near seen be for in the Triangle.   Who knows what will happen in the triangle in the next 50 years

[southslider]

^The Blue Line just gave local leaders the political cover to support denser development. South End was already ripe for urban infill, much like Brightleaf, Geer Street, 9th Street, or other areas of Durham closest to downtown. 

All growing cities are now realizing a densification of their urban core. Rail just provides a reliable option for mobility around the inevitable congestion resulting rom adding more and more people to a finite space.

[Skyybutter]

Does it make sense to approach LRT so that the Triangle as a whole is connected? I don't know much about the area, but does it make more sense for Raleigh and Cary (Wake County) to have their own system? Likewise Durham/Chapel Hill perhaps?. Could the two systems connect via RDU?. 

   I can't imagine if Charlotte, as a region, had tried to put rail transit together outside of Meck Co. to begin. 

   Better to think more local. Then let things evolve.  Gaston County us now in the loop for LRT from Uptown-CLT-Mt.Holly

  I'm sure Cabarrus and eventually Union Counties will be included as well. Not sure about York Co, as Rock Hill has just NOW began bus transit. Sad as York County is approaching a pop. of 300,000 people. 

  Just my two cents.

[ctl]

Light rail anywhere in Wake County is dead, dead, dead. Commuter rail and bus rapid transit is what we'll get for the next 25 years. 

[rolly]

Finally they can get the southern loop extended to I-40. Amazing how long the environmentalists hemmed this up.

https://www.wral.com/lawsuit-settlement-clears-way-for-dot-to-finish-nc-540-loop/18585534/

Seems optimistic that they could finish this by 2023.    And then the last section from I-40 to I-87 won't start until 2027.

 

 

[DCMetroRaleigh]

On 6/13/2019 at 8:36 AM, ctl said:

Light rail anywhere in Wake County is dead, dead, dead. Commuter rail and bus rapid transit is what we'll get for the next 25 years. 

Tragic 

[rolly]

I-540 South Leg is finally underway, starting Monday, Nov 18.

Quote

Construction is planned to begin in the median of I-40 on Monday, Nov 18.

 

[rolly]

I'm monitoring OpenStreetMap for when the construction starts to show up as being started.

The only other big new road project in the Triangle is I-885, connecting NC147 and US70/I-85:

 

At some point we'll see 540 between Hwy55 and I-40 showing new construction:

Edited November 22, 2019 by rolly