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2035 Triangle Regional Transit Vision Plan


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Thanks for the post. I love having this kind of discussion on here. Some of the points you raise are excellent, while others are red herrings, IMO.    Regarding the finances of thi

With both Raleigh and Durham-Orange having flirted with and then walked away from LR, the stage is set for commuter train service over the NCRR between Mebane/Hillsborough/Durham on one end and Garner

I agree I-540 will not provide traffic relief on I-40 directly simply because any traffic reduction will be replaced by commuters that avoid I-40 today. I-540 will provide something very valuable to S

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Yay! Some great contributor on openstreetmap has added the construction zone for southern I-540!  

When this segment is done, there will be a great bypass of RTP/RDU/and downtown Raleigh.  All that beach traffic during the summer can pay some big $$$ and take this sweet road and skip tons of local Triangle traffic. 

540new.png

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I don't think it's going to be effective at reducing traffic on I-40. Uncongested trip times for through drivers will be significantly shorter on I-40, so given that it is a toll road that will cost money to use, through traffic will only use it as a bypass when I-40 is significantly congested - meaning no relief of congestion on I-40.

It *will* provide an effective cutoff route for drivers coming from Pittsboro on US64 or Sanford on US1, heading to Wilmington on I-40 or Goldsboro on I-42 (and vice versa) but I don't think that will be enough to move the needle on I-40 congestion.

Make no mistake. The main purpose of this road is to enable sprawl in southern Wake County.

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It took MUCH longer than I thought it would for UNC students to figure out that coal runs their steam plant. 

Now it’s just a matter of time until NS abandons the spur to Chapel Hill. This event will present some local transit opportunities.

 

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On 1/8/2020 at 4:23 PM, kermit said:

It took MUCH longer than I thought it would for UNC students to figure out that coal runs their steam plant. 

Now it’s just a matter of time until NS abandons the spur to Chapel Hill. This event will present some local transit opportunities.

 

Hopefully Duke won’t get in the way of this opportunity :tw_smirk: [Joke]

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The problem with taking the tolled portion of 540 as a bypass is that the majority of NC residents living west of Durham still need to squeeze through Chapel Hill to reach the 540.  73/74 remains faster to southern beaches, while the untolled 540 is faster to northern beaches, though the latter still puts statewide traffic through Chapel Hill.

The tolled 540 best serves traffic already inside the Triangle (Chatham/Orange/Durham/Wake), which goes to show it serves more as a localized beltway, or sprawl-way, than a statewide bypass.

 

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I’m excited about commuter rail being a former Alamance County resident. Many people in Alamance County especially those living in Graham and Mebane commute to Durham and Chapel Hill. Any option that’s pursued should include Mebane. A station in downtown Mebane would be preferable, however to maximize riders a large park-n-ride station needs to be placed in the vicinity of I-85 exit 156. If Mebane isn’t an option, I don’t see much of a reason to extend the line beyond Durham. Hillsborough will not generate nearly as much ridership as Mebane. A Hillsborough Station won’t provide any great park n ride opportunities and the historic district will limit any significant TOD.  

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On 2/29/2020 at 5:31 AM, southslider said:

Alamance doesn't pay towards Go Triangle.  Orange has a tax. Transit is a pay-to-plan system.

Beyond the original Durham-Garner plan, extensions were studied.  What's at issue is whether these extensions would drag down the overall cost effectiveness of the whole corridor.

Adding in Clayton would not harm the overall cost effectiveness. Johnston County would have to identify funding for that extension, though, as they are not paying into the transit sales tax. But if they can find the money to pay their share, they can be a part of phase 1. Even if they don't find it by the time the grant application goes in, then it would still be theoretically possible to apply for federal funding for an extension.

Service further east into Johnston (like Selma) or further west  to Hillsborough or Mebane were all forecast to negatively impact the cost effectiveness of the whole line, so they're basically out of the question for phase I. That does not mean they can't happen in the future. as extensions of the Phase 1 line, though; it's just unlikely that there will be any federal contribution: it will have to rely on local and state funding.

 

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On 2/29/2020 at 5:31 AM, southslider said:

Alamance doesn't pay towards Go Triangle.  Orange has a tax. Transit is a pay-to-plan system.

Alamance County has been long served by Go Triangle bus service.  Interestingly enough, Orange County is served by PART.  As with all transit plans,  a solid plan must be presented to the stakeholders for consideration.  Go Triangle has not publicly submitted a plan to Alamance County.   Orange County was presented with a solid plan that included light rail, and they supported it with an increased transit tax.   Commuter rail is still many years away.    Alamance County is in the same position as many of the counties surround Mecklenburg are in terms of future rail service.    When a solid plan for the Big Bang is on the table, they will be afforded an opportunity to vote for a local tax that supports transit as well.  

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Two updates:

- Raleigh released its Equitable Development Around Transit guide, which includes guidance on how upzoning will take place around BRT stations. https://raleighnc.gov/bus-rapid-transit

- The western route has been narrowed down to the Western Blvd Extension / Cary Towne Blvd alternative. Cary Town Council has selected it, as has the Raleigh Transit Authority.

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OK, now I am confused. This was posted by @rancenc in the NC Passenger Rail thread:

https://www.sanfordherald.com/news/s-line-to-help-boost-east-sanford-development/article_9f675855-595e-5fd6-814a-65f6cfd9c9d6.html

and in that story they say:

Quote

Mann and N.C. Board of Transportation member Lisa Mathis spoke about the S-Line rail during the Sanford Area Growth Alliance Monthly Public Policy Luncheon.

The state received a $47.5 million federal grant to help redevelop the line, which will stretch from Virginia to South Carolina, Mathis said. Possible stops in Central North Carolina include Sanford, Apex, Franklinton, Henderson, Raleigh and Wake Forest.

This is the first serious discussion I have heard about commuter rail South of Raleigh, I didn't see any discussion of this in the Wake County transit plan (but I may have missed it).

This seems like a very interesting turn of events for Triangle area transit. Commuter rail to Apex would certainly be a benefit to the area and it seems that there is a potential for decent connecting service to RTP from Cary on the route. More importantly, this service along with the planned NCRR Durham to Garner commuter rail, would make RUS into a significant node. What little I know about the Wake transit plan is that only the E-W BRT stops at RUS (am I wrong about that?).

Don't get me wrong, I think this rail service would be great for the Triangle (presuming CSX is walking away from the southern portion of the S-Line). But, the more I think about how this commuter service could fit into existing plans the more confused I get. Help!

 

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1 hour ago, kermit said:

OK, now I am confused. This was posted by @rancenc in the NC Passenger Rail thread:

https://www.sanfordherald.com/news/s-line-to-help-boost-east-sanford-development/article_9f675855-595e-5fd6-814a-65f6cfd9c9d6.html

and in that story they say:

This is the first serious discussion I have heard about commuter rail South of Raleigh, I didn't see any discussion of this in the Wake County transit plan (but I may have missed it).

This seems like a very interesting turn of events for Triangle area transit. Commuter rail to Apex would certainly be a benefit to the area and it seems that there is a potential for decent connecting service to RTP from Cary on the route. More importantly, this service along with the planned NCRR Durham to Garner commuter rail, would make RUS into a significant node. What little I know about the Wake transit plan is that only the E-W BRT stops at RUS (am I wrong about that?).

Don't get me wrong, I think this rail service would be great for the Triangle (presuming CSX is walking away from the southern portion of the S-Line). But, the more I think about how this commuter service could fit into existing plans the more confused I get. Help!

 

This commuter rail project is independent of Wake County/CoR effort to bring commuter rail to the Triangle, Raleigh just happens to be a prime node to anchor such a project.  NCGA won't dare help the City of Raleigh if it could help it, NCGA is currently stripping away state government jobs and offices away from the Triangle. DMV HQ was the first to go.  Don't know how the NCHHS headquarters managed to stay in Raleigh but it must have been some serious politicking. 

Edited by carolina1792
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got this from the city today.

Station Area Planning: New Bern Avenue

Be a partner in planning for housing, jobs, walkability, and equity around bus rapid transit (BRT) stations along New Bern Avenue!

The goal of this project to support vibrant, healthy, and accessible neighborhoods around the city’s BRT system. Thoughtful planning will help ensure that these neighborhoods offer a range of places to live and work and include housing affordable at a broad range of income levels. Streets will be safe and comfortable for people walking and taking the bus.

Join the Community Leader Group or become a Neighborhood Ambassador to have a leadership role in the planning process for New Bern Avenue. These leaders will work side by side with Raleigh’s city planners to shape the plan and ensure that public input is deeply reflected in the outcome.

Fill out an application to join one of these groups today!

Just want to stay up to date? Check out the New Bern project page or sign up here for email updates.

For more information, please contact project manager Jason Hardin at [email protected] or 919-996-2657.

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On 2/3/2021 at 11:50 AM, kermit said:

OK, now I am confused. This was posted by @rancenc in the NC Passenger Rail thread:

https://www.sanfordherald.com/news/s-line-to-help-boost-east-sanford-development/article_9f675855-595e-5fd6-814a-65f6cfd9c9d6.html

and in that story they say:

This is the first serious discussion I have heard about commuter rail South of Raleigh, I didn't see any discussion of this in the Wake County transit plan (but I may have missed it).

This seems like a very interesting turn of events for Triangle area transit. Commuter rail to Apex would certainly be a benefit to the area and it seems that there is a potential for decent connecting service to RTP from Cary on the route. More importantly, this service along with the planned NCRR Durham to Garner commuter rail, would make RUS into a significant node. What little I know about the Wake transit plan is that only the E-W BRT stops at RUS (am I wrong about that?).

Don't get me wrong, I think this rail service would be great for the Triangle (presuming CSX is walking away from the southern portion of the S-Line). But, the more I think about how this commuter service could fit into existing plans the more confused I get. Help!

 

@Merthecat mentioned to me that he has heard that the Triangle will see commuter rail from Wake Forest to Sanford before we see a route from Clayton to Durham.  Not exactly sure of the specifics but maybe he'll chime in with more.

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3 hours ago, nicholas said:

@Merthecat mentioned to me that he has heard that the Triangle will see commuter rail from Wake Forest to Sanford before we see a route from Clayton to Durham.  Not exactly sure of the specifics but maybe he'll chime in with more.

This is very possible. NCDOT intends to buy the S-Line soon. If they buy it, they’ll be able to run commuter rail to show an immediate ROI until the long term project to restore the  S-Line to Petersburg for long distance passenger rail is complete.    

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22 hours ago, nicholas said:

@Merthecat mentioned to me that he has heard that the Triangle will see commuter rail from Wake Forest to Sanford before we see a route from Clayton to Durham.  Not exactly sure of the specifics but maybe he'll chime in with more.

I don’t have any inside information other than what others have said, but I do know NCDOT received a federal grant recently to study transit-oriented development around a dozen or so proposed stations between Sanford and Henderson.  Since it’s a lower-traffic corridor and doesn’t have as many entities to deal with, some folks have speculated that it would be easier to implement a commuter service here.  And with NCDOT’s experience and competence at running trains, they are at a technical advantage over GoTriangle, which has never done so before.  That said, it still will be several years at least before anything happens, but I think DOT wants to make this happen.

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54 minutes ago, Merthecat said:

I don’t have any inside information other than what others have said, but I do know NCDOT received a federal grant recently to study transit-oriented development around a dozen or so proposed stations between Sanford and Henderson.  Since it’s a lower-traffic corridor and doesn’t have as many entities to deal with, some folks have speculated that it would be easier to implement a commuter service here.  And with NCDOT’s experience and competence at running trains, they are at a technical advantage over GoTriangle, which has never done so before.  That said, it still will be several years at least before anything happens, but I think DOT wants to make this happen.

I agree that NCDOT is the better entity to operate regional rail, both in the Triangle and across the state. In an ideal future, there would be regional rail systems focused on the Triangle, Triad, and Charlotte. These systems should integrate with each other. Regional rail on the NCRR, for example could run Clayton-Burlington, Burlington-Salisbury, and Salisbury-Gastonia (I realize that the NCRR ends in Charlotte, but the service should run through the metro). Regional trains should also integrate with the intercity service, with timed transfers at key stations, and have streamlined ticketing. So for example, I should be able to visit my alma mater by hopping on the Piedmont at Greensboro, quickly changing trains in Cary, and getting off at the NCSU station, all on one ticket.

The other benefit of NCDOT operation is state-level funding. If future transportation funding was less heavily skewed towards highways, there would be the potential to accomplish a lot of projects and service without having to go begging with transit tax referenda.

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On 2/3/2021 at 1:11 PM, carolina1792 said:

This commuter rail project is independent of Wake County/CoR effort to bring commuter rail to the Triangle, Raleigh just happens to be a prime node to anchor such a project.  NCGA won't dare help the City of Raleigh if it could help it, NCGA is currently stripping away state government jobs and offices away from the Triangle. DMV HQ was the first to go.  Don't know how the NCHHS headquarters managed to stay in Raleigh but it must have been some serious politicking. 

Is the NCDMV HQ in Rocky Mount only temporary until Hazard Mitigation can be completed on their existing building in Raleigh?  

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50 minutes ago, Hushpuppy321 said:

Is the NCDMV HQ in Rocky Mount only temporary until Hazard Mitigation can be completed on their existing building in Raleigh?  

Nope, it's in Rocky Mount permanently. 

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Work has been progressing (albeit slowly) on the interchange at I-40/NC42.  I believe this will be the first diverging diamond interchange in the Triangle?  I rarely see workers on site here, so they must either only be working at night or have moved to another part of the I-40 widening project.  Note how much higher the new bridge is compared to the current one.

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