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Transit Agencies in South Carolina


monsoon

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http://www.independentmail.com/news/2008/a...es-more-troubl/

"That's a bunch of crap," the mayor said.

Couldn't have said it better myself mayor. I love how the people on this forum who are transit advocates are ok with CAT cutting service. Seems to go against their beliefs doesn't it? Seeing how they don't collect money from fares why don't they just increase how much students give every year to the system? Why did they cut the funding that comes from parking fees? So they can pave more parking lots and build more parking garages that aren't needed?

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http://www.independentmail.com/news/2008/a...es-more-troubl/

"That's a bunch of crap," the mayor said.

Couldn't have said it better myself mayor. I love how the people on this forum who are transit advocates are ok with CAT cutting service. Seems to go against their beliefs doesn't it? Seeing how they don't collect money from fares why don't they just increase how much students give every year to the system? Why did they cut the funding that comes from parking fees? So they can pave more parking lots and build more parking garages that aren't needed?

First off, will you please explain to me how an under performing route helps a transit system as a whole? If people need to access Walmart, they can go to the one in Anderson. Better yet, they can support the other hundreds of stores that the CAT does run to, including locally owned options.

As for the on-campus routes: The current set-up has two routes, which operate independently of each other. One for East Campus and one for West Campus area. To connect from one route to the other would require you to get off at Lowry Hall and walk down South Palmetto Blvd, around the rear of the Library, and up the hilll, where you'd connect to the other route at the east library circle. This connection only proves more difficult as Rhodes Hall Annex construction causes a slight detour, the Library HVAC construction causes problems, and the new Academic Success Center (which begins construction in August) will stand on the path currently used. While in the past a one campus route system has not been implemented, that doesn't mean that it's not going to be just as efficient or effective. I'm anxious to experience myself, but I think it's holds promise to better connect the east and west campus areas and parking lots for students. For this reason, commuter students will be able to cut back on driving their cars. The current set up forces people to drive to the west side parking lots for classes on the west side of campus, and the same for the east side. Well, now they can use the east campus lots if they're coming from Central or Pendleton and have a class on the west side, or use the west campus lots if they're coming from Seneca but have classes on the east side...

As for the parking garages and surfaces lots: You'll not see more people driving their cars as a result of this. That's crazy. Those who have familiarized themselves with the Clemson campus can tell you that it's pedestrian focused.

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First off, will you please explain to me how an under performing route helps a transit system as a whole? If people need to access Walmart, they can go to the one in Anderson. Better yet, they can support the other hundreds of stores that the CAT does run to, including locally owned options.

How is it underperforming? Because it's not full everytime it drives by your apartment? Why would somebody living in Central want to take a bus all the way down to Anderson when they could hop on one and be to their Walmart or other shops/restaurants in five minutes?

As for the parking garages and surfaces lots: You'll not see more people driving their cars as a result of this. That's crazy. Those who have familiarized themselves with the Clemson campus can tell you that it's pedestrian focused.

So, the two-lane part of Perimeter Road that goes by the fire station has sidewalks? What about Highway 76? Doesn't sound pedestrian focused to me. So, why are they adding more garages if they're not needed? Ever heard of the term: "if you build it, they will come." Oh they'll come alright. In their gas hog SUV's. If it was a true pedestrian focused univerity, there wouldn't be any parking lots or garages at all. Seeing how you think it's ok that they cut transit routes in the Clemson area, I doubt you would be upset if they cut transit services in other cities like Greenville too right?

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How is it underperforming? Because it's not full everytime it drives by your apartment? Why would somebody living in Central want to take a bus all the way down to Anderson when they could hop on one and be to their Walmart or other shops/restaurants in five minutes?

So, the two-lane part of Perimeter Road that goes by the fire station has sidewalks? What about Highway 76? Doesn't sound pedestrian focused to me. So, why are they adding more garages if they're not needed? Ever heard of the term: "if you build it, they will come." Oh they'll come alright. In their gas hog SUV's. If it was a true pedestrian focused univerity, there wouldn't be any parking lots or garages at all.

Study the CAT route map and tell me what people are missing out on by cutting the Walmart route. Waffle House, a chinese restaurant, and a dollar tree. All of the stores have other locations or counterparts who operate stores along CAT routes in Clemson and Seneca.

We're talking about the core campus here. Clemson University is made up of over 17,000 acres, which roughly 600 some odd acres are maintained (which can give you insight to the size of the core campus in relation to the surrounding University owned land). Do you expect sidewalks to run through the experimental forest, too? The portions of perimeter road that need sidewalks have them. Highway 76 doesn't run through campus. The University currently has no parking garages. No garages are being added at this time. The long range plans call for parking garages (which would boast a smaller footprint than a surface parking lot) in order to allow for less paving and more green spaces. That's better for the environment, in case you didn't know.

No parking lots or garages at all? Riiiiight. You've lost your grip on reality here. But, maybe if you actually spend some time on the campus of Clemson University you'll see that the only vehicles you have to avoid during the weekdays are CAT buses and maintenance vehicles. No students are allowed to park anywhere near the heart of campus.

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Seeing how you think it's ok that they cut transit routes in the Clemson area, I doubt you would be upset if they cut transit services in other cities like Greenville too right?

Greenville's transit system is light years behind Clemson's. There is no comparison at all.

The majority of Clemson's routes are 30 minute intervals. Greenville's operate every hour. The campus routes in Clemson run every 3-8 minutes. How does that compare?

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Greenville's transit system is light years behind Clemson's. There is no comparison at all.

The majority of Clemson's routes are 30 minute intervals. Greenville's operate every hour. The campus routes in Clemson run every 3-8 minutes. How does that compare?

You never answered the queston. :whistling:

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Study the CAT route map and tell me what people are missing out on by cutting the Walmart route. Waffle House, a chinese restaurant, and a dollar tree. All of the stores have other locations or counterparts who operate stores along CAT routes in Clemson and Seneca.

We're talking about the core campus here. Clemson University is made up of over 17,000 acres, which roughly 600 some odd acres are maintained (which can give you insight to the size of the core campus in relation to the surrounding University owned land). Do you expect sidewalks to run through the experimental forest, too? The portions of perimeter road that need sidewalks have them. Highway 76 doesn't run through campus. The University currently has no parking garages. No garages are being added at this time. The long range plans call for parking garages (which would boast a smaller footprint than a surface parking lot) in order to allow for less paving and more green spaces. That's better for the environment, in case you didn't know.

No parking lots or garages at all? Riiiiight. You've lost your grip on reality here. But, maybe if you actually spend some time on the campus of Clemson University you'll see that the only vehicles you have to avoid during the weekdays are CAT buses and maintenance vehicles. No students are allowed to park anywhere near the heart of campus.

True, but people might not want to ride the transit system for an hour to get to these places when they could ride it for five minutes. I know how large the university is and what it's made up of. The best thing for the environment would be no lots or garages at all. Have people leave their cars at home and walk, bike, or take a bus to their needed destination. That is what a transit system is for right? Yeah, that's the heart of the campus. What about that big parking lot next to the football stadium? I drive by there on weekdays and see students parked there. They should tear out that lot completely and put in a mixed use development.

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You are comparing apples and oranges. Clemson has more room to cut, Greenville doesn't. But no, I would not be happy about it.

Just because it's a bigger transit system does not mean it's ok if they cut routes. That's like saying it's ok if they cut transit service in Atlanta and Charlotte.

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Nobody here is advocating for CAT to cut any routes. I would personally rather that they not cut any routes at all. But you have to be cognizant of their budget constraints. They can't just raise their fees like you would raise a fare-box rate on a normal system. They have a fixed budget, so they have to work within that. Cutting routes is the most logical quick fix.

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I didn't know there was a Walmart in Clemson. Interesting. I know how large the university is and what it's made up of. The best thing for the environment would be no lots or garages at all. Have people leave their cars at home and walk, bike, or take a bus to their needed destination. That is what a transit system is for right? Yeah, that's the heart of the campus. What about that big parking lot next to the football stadium? I drive by there on the weekdays and see students parked there. They should tear out that lot completely and put in a mixed use development.

That is not at the heart of campus. That is the edge of the core, my friend.

The campus is basically set up in rings:

The library sits at the heart.

Outside of that is classroom buildings.

Outside of that is Administrative buildings.

Outside of that is on campus residence halls.

Outside of that is athletic facilities and parking.

That is a commuter lot. Students have to catch a bus from the athletic district, where parking is on the West side, to the center of campus. This forces people to arrive on campus and never touch their car until they leave.

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Nobody here is advocating for CAT to cut any routes. I would personally rather that they not cut any routes at all. But you have to be cognizant of their budget constraints. They can't just raise their fees like you would raise a fare-box rate on a normal system. They have a fixed budget, so they have to work within that. Cutting routes is the most logical quick fix.

In post #71, you said they should cut the Bridge route. So much for not advocating. Don't forget about post #68 by GvilleSC. He applauds the cutting of service. <_< So, they can't raise the student fee to offset the fuel costs? Also, I highly doubt those parking lots really need paving.

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That is not at the heart of campus. That is the edge of the core, my friend.

The campus is basically set up in rings:

The library sits at the heart.

Outside of that is classroom buildings.

Outside of that is Administrative buildings.

Outside of that is on campus residence halls.

Outside of that is athletic facilities and parking.

That is a commuter lot. Students have to catch a bus from the athletic district, where parking is on the West side, to the center of campus. This forces people to arrive on campus and never touch their car until they leave.

I know. I've been to the university many times. I go to several football/baseball/basketball games there every year. Why doesn't the bus just pick them up where they live or within a block of it? Why do they have to drive to the commuter lot? I'm referring to residents who live within the university boundary.

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In post #71, you said they should cut the Bridge route. So much for not advocating. Don't forget about post #68 by GvilleSC. He applauds the cutting of service. <_< So, they can't raise the student fee to offset the fuel costs? Also, I highly doubt those parking lots really need paving.

I do applaud them on cutting that route, because they're managing their money and cutting the system where is has room to be cut. IF they were planning on buying 10 new buses, I'd applaud them on canceling that order for the betterment of the system as a whole. I don't want them to cut any routes, but if they absolutely have to, which they do, I applaud them for selecting a route that has the least impact on the system as a whole. If Walmart feels that the route is necessary for their well-being, they will donate money to CAT for the purpose of keeping the route.

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I said that assuming that their budget constraints were understood by all. Clearly that was not the case. IMO they should raise the fee. You won't get any argument from me on that issue. But I think they requires approval by the Student Government and the Board of Trustees.

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I know. I've been to the university many times. I go to several football/baseball/basketball games there every year. Why doesn't the bus just pick them up where they live or within a block of it? Why do they have to drive to the commuter lot? I'm referring to residents who live within the university boundary.

NO on-campus residents are allowed to have a commuter sticker. No on-campus housing is located far enough away from classes for them to ever need the bus (except for Lightsey Bridge, which as Knightrider said will have a van instead of a bus from now on). If you take time on your next trip to Clemson and locate the resident parking lots (R1, R2, and R3), you will see that the hassle of getting your car and driving it during the week is in no one's best interest. No to mention, you wouldn't be allowed to park in the Commuter parking lots anyway, which are the same distance or farther from the center of campus...

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Here's a quick little map for the understanding of Clemson's day-to-day operating scheme of how transit and the campus interact:

ORANGE AREA: Core campus (including all administrative, educational, and residential buildings)

RED AREAS: On-campus residents' parking lots

YELLOW AREAS: Commuter parking lots

PINK LINE: on campus day routes (to commuter lots)

RED LINE: Central bus route

GREEN LINE: Lightsey Bridge Apt route

BLUE LINE: Seneca route

YELLOW LINE: Pendleton/Anderson route

LIGHT BLUE: Bridge route

The only cars allowed to park (and therefore have the need to enter) the orange area are faculty and staff.

2740367802_2135dd3fe0.jpg

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NO on-campus residents are allowed to have a commuter sticker. No on-campus housing is located far enough away from classes for them to ever need the bus (except for Lightsey Bridge, which as Knightrider said will have a van instead of a bus from now on). If you take time on your next trip to Clemson and locate the resident parking lots (R1, R2, and R3), you will see that the hassle of getting your car and driving it during the week is in no one's best interest. No to mention, you wouldn't be allowed to park in the Commuter parking lots anyway, which are the same distance or farther from the center of campus...

The van is for the "bridge" for the bridge to Clemson students at Tri-county tech. Lightsey Bridge will be served by a new combined route now.

The biggest change is the creation of the new TIGER Route on campus, which will essentially combine the existing Orange, Blue, Lightsey Bridge and Campus Connector routes. This new route will loop around campus, connecting the east and west parts of campus, with seven buses running at eight-minute intervals along the route from 7:30 a.m. to 5 p.m. Monday through Friday during the semester. After 5 p.m. on weekdays and after 6 p.m. on weekends, two buses will run every 30 minutes until 3 a.m.

Also, raising fees does not seem to be the best option IMO for students. My personal budget is as tight as the university's or CATbus's right now. Some local governments should contribute a bit more.

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The van is for the "bridge" for the bridge to Clemson students at Tri-county tech. Lightsey Bridge will be served by a new combined route now.

Sorry, yea, that's what I was envisioning in my head, but I don't know why I put Lightsey on there. Thanks for clarifying

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Did they get rid of the commuter lots in front of the Brooks Center, behind the Ag buildings, and the gravel lot across Cherry Rd?

The Brooks Center lot is still there. The lot behind the Ag Quad is going to be the new Life Sciences building that will begin construction in August. The gravel lot across the street will become all faculty parking.

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I am probably going to get blasted for this, but it is a worthy point so I will make it anyway: it gets really old to read about North Carolina cities/activities/accomplishments in a South Carolina thread. I know several of you guys live in the Charlotte metro area or are very familiar with it, and that's great. But it seems like most threads turn into how inferior South Carolina is and how much better North Carolina is (either directly stated or just implied). In a South Carolina forum, does that really accomplish anything?

I'm not trying to be a jerk, so please don't get defensive. I realize that it is probably not something being done intentionally, but it is very noticeable to me. I'm sure I am not the only one.

Actually, comparing Clemson to Chapel Hill is probably a better comparison than NC to SC anyway. Both get more Federal funding because they're smaller in population compared to say, Greenville, and Chapel Hill probably gets funding from UNC like Clemson does from Clemson. If not, if not funded directly from UNC, it probably gets funding because of UNC.

Charleston spends about 3-4x's more money on mass transit than Greenville. Columbia spends almost as much as Charleston. Greenville operates the trolleys downtown, but it mostrly operates like a tourist attraction. It still has some mass transit applications, though, but its statistics aren't included in the GTA system now managed by the City separately from the trolleys. All 3 of the major cities' systems have practically gone belly up in the past. The city of Greenville has put more effort and a little more money into the system in the last few months, but the county hasn't done anything yet.

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The County needs to draw up some plans for Greenlink. An agreement that says that they will increase their funding by X amount, if the money is used for expansion of the system to serve a greater number of county residents. That's been their main argument thus far that I've read, but how can we expect the system to grow if it can't find funding? Which comes first the expansion or the funding?

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Funding. If a bus system doesnt have good service and doesnt go where you need it to, then it will not be used. Demand for transit doesn't just magically appear when your service is nonexistant. What the County Councilmembers need to do is ask themselves, what would it take to make them ride transit for their daily needs. Certainly the way it works today would not suffice.

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