MagLev Train for the City

[aowwt]

Okay I know this could go under some other topics but I just got done watching a Pirated show on Youtube about Locomotives. Needless to say the final part talked about a Maglev system being developed and initial costs are running 20 to 40 million per mile.

So Given that here is some ideas.

Line 1: Monroe Ave from Leonard St to Wealthy St at Market Ave. 2.1 miles, around 42 to 84 million.

Line 2: Michigan St from Monroe Ave to East Beltline then to 44th St to outside the Airport. 12.5 Miles, around 250 to 500 million.

Line 3: Extension of Route 1, Monroe Ave to Ann St, to Turner Ave, to Hillsdale Dr, to Alpine Ave to 6 Mile Rd. 6.1 Miles around 122 to 144 million.

Line 4: 28th St from Cascade Rd to Wilson Ave, then to 56th St ending at Byron Center Rd. 18.8 Miles around 376 to 752 million.

Line 5: Division Ave from 68th St to Michigan Ave then to Monroe Ave. 9.2 miles, around 184 to 368 million.

Line 5 could extend all the way to East Beltline using Plainfeild. Also a line from Michigan and East Beltline could extend up to Plainfeild and East Beltline. I would suggest an extension from that across the river into the northeast station. The Northwest station would be at Alpine and 6 mile. The southeast station besides the airport one could be made with a short extesion to just south of M6 and East Beltline. The southwest Station could be made at several locations but I think either one located at Chicago Dr and 28th provided line 1 gets extended to that point using Chicago Dr via Grandville Ave.

Outside of these I think another line could be made to handle ball park access. Another line for much later on would extend the Line 1 extension from 28th and Chicago Dr all the way to Holland. With another line serving Muskegon using the I 96 corridor linking up with the Alpine Ave line.

[tamias6]

The routes are a great idea. However maglevs are enormously expensive and conservative minded city leaders would balk at it. I think the routes could be achieved at much lower costs via light rail, street car lines, or BRT's. However I could see meglev being used as a high speed commuter rail line from the Ford airport to DT sometime in the future depending on if the economic state of the airline industry improves and if the cost of maglev comes down.

[aowwt]

If you know the cost per mile for Street Cars feel free to post it. BTW my idea of the Holland Connection it would be around 18.9 miles when it hits US 31 and Bus 196. It would also ride straight down Main St in Zeeland as an additional plus. Not sure where the Downtown of Holland is but I dont think it would be neccessary since Holland does have a local bus operation.

[tracer1138]

Generally for Maglev the cost in Grand Rapids would be too high even for a fiscally liberal official/resident.

Keep and eye on those routes though.

[tamias6]

If you know the cost per mile for Street Cars feel free to post it. BTW my idea of the Holland Connection it would be around 18.9 miles when it hits US 31 and Bus 196. It would also ride straight down Main St in Zeeland as an additional plus. Not sure where the Downtown of Holland is but I dont think it would be neccessary since Holland does have a local bus operation.

[GRDadof3]

Okay I know this could go under some other topics but I just got done watching a Pirated show on Youtube about Locomotives. Needless to say the final part talked about a Maglev system being developed and initial costs are running 20 to 40 million per mile.

So Given that here is some ideas.

Line 1: Monroe Ave from Leonard St to Wealthy St at Market Ave. 2.1 miles, around 42 to 84 million.

Line 2: Michigan St from Monroe Ave to East Beltline then to 44th St to outside the Airport. 12.5 Miles, around 250 to 500 million.

Line 3: Extension of Route 1, Monroe Ave to Ann St, to Turner Ave, to Hillsdale Dr, to Alpine Ave to 6 Mile Rd. 6.1 Miles around 122 to 144 million.

Line 4: 28th St from Cascade Rd to Wilson Ave, then to 56th St ending at Byron Center Rd. 18.8 Miles around 376 to 752 million.

Line 5: Division Ave from 68th St to Michigan Ave then to Monroe Ave. 9.2 miles, around 184 to 368 million.

Line 5 could extend all the way to East Beltline using Plainfeild. Also a line from Michigan and East Beltline could extend up to Plainfeild and East Beltline. I would suggest an extension from that across the river into the northeast station. The Northwest station would be at Alpine and 6 mile. The southeast station besides the airport one could be made with a short extesion to just south of M6 and East Beltline. The southwest Station could be made at several locations but I think either one located at Chicago Dr and 28th provided line 1 gets extended to that point using Chicago Dr via Grandville Ave.

Outside of these I think another line could be made to handle ball park access. Another line for much later on would extend the Line 1 extension from 28th and Chicago Dr all the way to Holland. With another line serving Muskegon using the I 96 corridor linking up with the Alpine Ave line.

[fotoman311]

Maglevs are way more than that. They might be that low if they are built into an airport or amusement park's infrastructure, but not through a city. Try at least twice that. Plus, I doubt you could get enough people to buy into the idea of a raised system like that winding through downtown.

Light rail in the street, like a streetcar system, is about $20 - $30 Million/mile. Light rail built in it's own ROW, like Minneapolis' or Charlotte's new systems, with viaducts, bridges, and other heavy-duty infrastructure, are about $50 Million/mile.

[monsoon]

For comparison, approximately how much is a mile of 6 lane highway, like 196, with a couple of bridges/interchanges built in?

[Khorasaurus]

In addition, because the users own the vehicles, operating costs to the government is almost 0 compared to rail which can be a significant yearly cost.

[aowwt]

Just looking at the responses I am happy to see the discussion that my lines were not off but rather the cost which I assumed would be problamtic for most people. Now here is what I would like to discuss.

We know that the area will need several lines for a street car system since that appears to be the best system out there. Provided cost is not a major issue, ie large grant from the Feds or something. The system I would like to see is this. Several Park and Ride stations built in the burbs along with several stations in the downtown area. The station locations I would like to see is the East and South Beltline intersection, One by Wilson and 28th Steet, another on West River Dr and East Beltline, probally two to three more would be built I think. One in the North East in Walker, another in Forest Hills, and finally a possible one at 68th and Division. The thing is each of these would be two story parking ramps initially with the ability to expand. The other major aspect would be leveling the GR Press Building and putting in a major depot for the street car to act as a major switch location.

Given this I would Redesign the Lines as such. Each line would originate from the Switch Location unless stated otherwise.

Line 1: Michigan St from the switch to East Beltline to Fulton Ave to its end at Ada Dr.

Line 2: Monroe Ave from the switch to Leonard with it going up Plainfield Ave to its end at East Beltline at West River Dr.

Line 3: Lake Michigan Dr via Bridge St from the switch to Grand Valley State University.

Line 4: Monroe Ave from the switch to Oakes St to Grandville Ave to Chicago Dr to M 121 to US 31.

Line 5: Michigan St from the switch to Division Ave to the end at 68th Street.

Line 6: Broadmoor Ave at 68th to West River Rd as its end.

Line 7: Leonard St at Monroe Ave to Alpine Ave to 6 Mile Rd as its end.

Line 8: Hillsdale Dr at Alpine Ave to West River Dr to its end at Northland Dr.

Line 9: 28th St from Cascade Rd to Wilson Ave to 56th St to Byron Center to 64th St as its end.

Line 10: I-96 from Alpine Ave to US-31/I-96 as its end.

Now I am not sure what else could be done but I think this would provide good access to all points in the GR Metro area. Second it should also lessen traffic going into the downtown area. The key thing is that you will not eliminate all traffic but getting as many cars off the road as possible will provide better safety and also provide better access for commercial trucks.

[GRDadof3]

Just looking at the responses I am happy to see the discussion that my lines were not off but rather the cost which I assumed would be problamtic for most people. Now here is what I would like to discuss.

[davidb]

A MAGLEV is not feasible for city transit. However, what about a route from Minneapolis, down through Wisconsin, into Chicago, up to GR then across to Detroit then along the lakeline through Cleveland, down to Pittsburgh and then hooking up with the East Coast (the one that goes from Boston to Miami in my head) MAGLEV in DC.

[aowwt]

Well what I been told is the one being developed a few years back was this. First it was to be up and running in a Cal based university in 2009-10 range. Next was the cost at the time was between 20 to 40 million. Lastly it was designed to be around 100mph as the top speed. What I was thinking was two types of trains for this system. The first style would be smaller ones that get up to the 100 mph range to go from Airport to Dtown, from GVSU to Dtown, from Muskegon to Dtown, and from Holland to Dtown. The other style would be a larger one to just pick up mass amount of passengers and go from one stop to the next using a slower speed.

I would like to have the 4 major ones to use primarly a ground level track with raised sections over high volume crossings ie over 10k cars. The tracks would be raised on the say the division route, the monroe one, the 28th, and the Michigan Ave, as examples. I just dont know if you would need Handicap access for all of the stops though I am guess so. The cool thing about these is that are quite quiet. Depending on how streamlined you can get them the air noise would be minimal. It would be nice to get from Dtown to Muskegon in 10 minutes. Later on a route to Lansing would be nice since AMTRACK cant get mad since they don't have a route.

[Allison Slater]

It would be nice to get from Dtown to Muskegon in 10 minutes.

[Rizzo]

I'd rather see $2-8 million per mile establish conventional equipment down the current corridors. Separate freight from passenger service and get speed capacity up to 79mph. There may be participants to make this happen. That would be more effective than elevated MagLevs.

Just to point out that there is a plan to take the Pere Marquette service to relatively high speed between Holland and Downtown four times a day, 79mph. From there it will go through the south side and onto K'Zoo. Then the Pere Marquette will finally be able to use the Amtrak owned ROW between Chitown and Detroit. This plan may become the basis of a more feasible commuter style system in the metro.

[fotoman311]

I'd rather see $2-8 million per mile establish conventional equipment down the current corridors. Separate freight from passenger service and get speed capacity up to 79mph. There may be participants to make this happen. That would be more effective than elevated MagLevs.

Just to point out that there is a plan to take the Pere Marquette service to relatively high speed between Holland and Downtown four times a day, 79mph. From there it will go through the south side and onto K'Zoo. Then the Pere Marquette will finally be able to use the Amtrak owned ROW between Chitown and Detroit. This plan may become the basis of a more feasible commuter style system in the metro.

[GRDadof3]

So, based on the perception I have of Amtrak, we should expect to see this line in place by 2018?

Seriously, that sounds great. I've been wanting desperately for a convenient way to get out to Holland to go shopping (one of my fav. bike shops is downtown) and to the beach. Any idea on the timeline for this?

[fotoman311]

It won't be run by Amtrak, as I understand it.

[Rizzo]

No, it's a proposal for Pere Marquette by the Midwest Regional Rail Initiative.. For real action on this propsal its hard to say.

If you still want transit to the shore we could see something happen between 2009-2011. There has been a significant push by the harbor towns to get buses to connect to GVSU at Allendale.

[monsoon]

..... The cool thing about these is that are quite quiet. ....

[aowwt]

hmm i would think since the trains are not rolling on steel and would not be close to the 300mph that those trains run at but rather 100mph the noise would be a lot less.

[Allison Slater]

Electromagnetic hum, probably.

[aowwt]

i guess that could cause some people to be bit a nervous about these trains then. But I do believe that with a slower speed that hum should be a lot less.

[monsoon]

^If they are operated at slower speeds, there is no need to spend the premium for them then.

[tamias6]

If we were talking about commuter rails, I'd say a speed of 75-100 mph would work. Conventional rails would do nicely for those speeds.