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Lake Nona - Medical City


scottb411

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3 minutes ago, leondecollao said:

The land in Nona is not cheap anymore. But developers needed large swaths of empty land to develop and Lake Nona offers plenty. Anyone that has tried to develop anything near DTO will tell you there is no land anywhere near downtown that’s available, affordable, and meets required specs. Any land close to downtown is sky high expensive and forces developers into developing only a handful of things that can make money on relatively small lots. 
 

Lake Nona is a thing for a lot of reasons and I’m shocked that people on this forum are dismissing it. You could have dismissed it 10 years ago but it is now an extremely successful development with a lot going for it. I suspect most of the growth in the next 5-10 years in the Orlando MSA will be in Lake Nona and Horizons West and it’s not because “rich people want to be isolated”.  Lake Nona offers a middle to upper middle class quality of life that’s hard to match anywhere else in Orlando. 
 

Lastly - now that hybrid and remote work are here to stay, hard to make a case for downtowns going forward. Little mini downtowns that are self sustaining are probably the future - the “15 minute city” idea is really taking off and Lake Nona is the best example we got but it’s also the reason downtowns across central Florida are flourishing (winter garden, Sanford, etc)....we just don’t need one central place that everyone needs to drive to as much anymore. 

Nothing I said was incorrect. Land was incredibly cheap when LN was first being developed and still is cheaper now than what’s available in the CBD. I stand by what I said about the people in Lake Nona not wanting to be near the riffraff in Orlando.

Also, who is dismissing LN? I certainly am not. I love LN. But you’re currently on URBAN planet. You’re really shocked that on a site that values urbanity, some wouldn’t be thrilled with Orlando’s version of Pleasantville? The same kind of sentiment exists regarding Avalon Park btw.

And idk if I agree that mini downtowns are the future. But if they are, where Orlando is failing miserably is linking these smaller downtowns together, making the entire region feel fractured and disconnected. Once again, I love LN and would prefer to move there if I could. But I can’t imagine it being that hard to see why folks do not feel the same way.

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The "Pleasantville" argument doesn't really do it for me when talking about Lake Nona.  When I'm there I'm not stung with some intent to recreate past nostalgia like you can argue is the vision of somewhere like Avalon Park.

If anything, Lake Nona has capitalized on its very marketable location just minutes from the airport (despite this attempt here to paint Lake Nona has some intergalactic spaceport).  Tavistock has been very successful in bringing health and sports venues to the region and some higher paying jobs with them.  

 

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11 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Nothing I said was incorrect. Land was incredibly cheap when LN was first being developed and still is cheaper now than what’s available in the CBD. I stand by what I said about the people in Lake Nona not wanting to be near the riffraff in Orlando.

Also, who is dismissing LN? I certainly am not. I love LN. But you’re currently on URBAN planet. You’re really shocked that on a site that values urbanity, some wouldn’t be thrilled with Orlando’s version of Pleasantville? The same kind of sentiment exists regarding Avalon Park btw.

And idk if I agree that mini downtowns are the future. But if they are, where Orlando is failing miserably is linking these smaller downtowns together, making the entire region feel fractured and disconnected. Once again, I love LN and would prefer to move there if I could. But I can’t imagine it being that hard to see why folks do not feel the same way.

I’m shocked people are dismissive of LN especially on Urban Planet because I’m watching the development of Nona with the same interest i’m watching the development of Egypt’s new capital or with the same interest I read about other large scale urban-suburban projects in the past like Brasilia or some of the new cities that popped up overnight in China.  LN is a fascinating experiment and the only one I can think of that was kick started by one private company rather than a government. I’m gonna go out on a limb - if LN proves to be successful, urban planners will certainly study it in the future. 

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2 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

The "Pleasantville" argument doesn't really do it for me when talking about Lake Nona.  When I'm there I'm not stung with some intent to recreate past nostalgia like you can argue is the vision of somewhere like Avalon Park.

If anything, Lake Nona has capitalized on its very marketable location just minutes from the airport (despite this attempt here to paint Lake Nona has some intergalactic spaceport).  Tavistock has been very successful in bringing health and sports venues to the region and some higher paying jobs with them.  

 

What’s the difference between Avalon and Lake Nona in terms of neighborhood layout?

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2 hours ago, leondecollao said:

I’m shocked people are dismissive of LN especially on Urban Planet because I’m watching the development of Nona with the same interest i’m watching the development of Egypt’s new capital or with the same interest I read about other large scale urban-suburban projects in the past like Brasilia or some of the new cities that popped up overnight in China.  LN is a fascinating experiment and the only one I can think of that was kick started by one private company rather than a government. I’m gonna go out on a limb - if LN proves to be successful, urban planners will certainly study it in the future. 

This is so strange and such a departure from the norm. I’m usually the one defending Lake Nona lol. Still, there’s absolutely nothing urban about Lake Nona and as far as being fascinating, I don’t mean to be rude but have you traveled much? Lake Nona is absolutely not special or unique at all, certainly not enough for URBAN planners to study it. Maybe it’s groundbreaking for Orlando but this is the kind of things larger, older, and more establish cities turn up their noses at.

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32 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

This is so strange and such a departure from the norm. I’m usually the one defending Lake Nona lol. Still, there’s absolutely nothing urban about Lake Nona and as far as being fascinating, I don’t mean to be rude but have you traveled much? Lake Nona is absolutely not special or unique at all, certainly not enough for URBAN planners to study it. Maybe it’s groundbreaking for Orlando but this is the kind of things larger, older, and more establish cities turn up their noses at.

I strongly disagree. Mini-hubs in a 15-minute city model  appear to be the part of our urban planning future and Lake Nona is the best we got and one of the more interesting in the whole country. It is incredibly rare to have large swaths of land owned by a single entity and for that entity to have some level of vision for it.  We once had one such opportunity in Baldwin Park (and previously with Disney) and yes, people do study it as a model for modern neighborhood planning. There are only a couple other neighborhoods like Baldwin Park in the whole country (issaquah Highlands in Seattle comes to mind).  When you have a large blank slate like Lake Nona, it is an opportunity and I hope it succeeds. I certainly hope the town center can become a hub for south Orlando, hope it can attract more companies to Orlando, etc. 

imo, large “more mature” cities have a ton of systemic problems they are dealing with and that’s why de-infrastructure is a real thing these days. Nothing I’d be jealous of. 

 

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, leondecollao said:

I strongly disagree. Mini-hubs in a 15-minute city model  appear to be the part of our urban planning future and Lake Nona is the best we got and one of the more interesting in the whole country. It is incredibly rare to have large swaths of land owned by a single entity and for that entity to have some level of vision for it.  We once had one such opportunity in Baldwin Park (and previously with Disney) and yes, people do study it as a model for modern neighborhood planning. There are only a couple other neighborhoods like Baldwin Park in the whole country (issaquah Highlands in Seattle comes to mind).  When you have a large blank slate like Lake Nona, it is an opportunity and I hope it succeeds. I certainly hope the town center can become a hub for south Orlando, hope it can attract more companies to Orlando, etc. 

imo, large “more mature” cities have a ton of systemic problems they are dealing with and that’s why de-infrastructure is a real thing these days. Nothing I’d be jealous of. 

 

 

 

 

Legitimately could not disagree more with your final sentence. Wow. Orlando is the poster child for sprawl, auto-centrism, awful development, terrible design, and a glaring lack of urban fabric. I do like it here so I am not trying to dump on it but Orlando is a collection of suburbs and neighborhoods, not a true city and places like Lake Nona are everything that is wrong with the mindset of our leaders and residents alike.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

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good discussion.  

Wanted to add a couple things:

lake nona has been around since the 80s (well before Baldwin park, Avalon park, universal studios, and a huge convention center were in Orlando).  Yes, the growth in medical city is newer (but some is well over a decade old though) 

Institutions such as two university medical campuses and five different independent  medical groups are permanent and not going anywhere.  Some of these are federally and state funded, and the growth is happening around them.  Places like horizon west or Windermere will simply never have the cluster that lake Nona does.

and an aeropolis is a pretty real (and urban) type of development.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

Legitimately could not disagree more with your final sentence. Wow. Orlando is the poster child for sprawl, auto-centrism, awful development, terrible design, and a glaring lack of urban fabric. I do like it here so I am not trying to dump on it but Orlando is a collection of suburbs and neighborhoods, not a true city and places like Lake Nona are everything that is wrong with the mindset of our leaders and residents alike.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

I actually think we’d agree on a lot over a beer. I agree Orlando is a botched mess of sprawl but I save that type of hate for places like Horizons West while hoping Lake Nona can turn out to be something more. 

Edited by leondecollao
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3 hours ago, leondecollao said:

There are only a couple other neighborhoods like Baldwin Park in the whole country (issaquah Highlands in Seattle comes to mind).

The comparison with Issaquah Highlands is an apt one. In the same way Orlando is a Downtown(-ish) or Lake Nona proposition for me, so Seattle offers a choice for me between Downtown(-ish) and Issaquah Highlands. The planning makes suburban living more tolerable, though it is my second preference to an urban setting. Compactness and walkability are lacking, but not as glaringly so, as in most other suburban areas (i.e. I don't feel trapped in a sprawling, gated, barrel tiled and white vinyl fenced hell-scape from which there is no escape).

I realize that to a hardcore urbanist, Lake Nona holds little appeal. But as suburban settings go, it's far from the worst. I hope the rumored transportation hub in Lake Nona becomes a reality, and I hope it feeds directly into Downtown. Transit throughout Orlando needs massive investment, it goes without saying. Maybe Lake Nona can serve as a catalyst for that.

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5 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Legitimately could not disagree more with your final sentence. Wow. Orlando is the poster child for sprawl, auto-centrism, awful development, terrible design, and a glaring lack of urban fabric. I do like it here so I am not trying to dump on it but Orlando is a collection of suburbs and neighborhoods, not a true city and places like Lake Nona are everything that is wrong with the mindset of our leaders and residents alike.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree on this.

You aren’t sharing things people don’t already know. Part of meaningful exchanges is an opportunity to share ideas. 
Im struck by your statement of asking if someone hasn’t traveled much. That’s a nonstarter. 

Edited by prahaboheme
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1 hour ago, prahaboheme said:

You aren’t sharing things people don’t already know. Part of meaningful exchanges is an opportunity to share ideas. 
Im struck by your statement of asking if someone hasn’t traveled much. That’s a nonstarter. 

How do you know what others know or not? You have absolutely no idea and neither do I. That’s why I asked. It wasn’t an instance of denigration; it was a sincere question.

Thank you for enlightening me on what a meaningful exchange is. It makes it all the more clear when it isn’t taking place, like now.

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1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

How do you know what others know or not? You have absolutely no idea and neither do I. That’s why I asked. It wasn’t an instance of denigration; it was a sincere question.

Thank you for enlightening me on what a meaningful exchange is. It makes it all the more clear when it isn’t taking place, like now.

Oh give it a rest — nothing was sincere about your responses. Happy to enlighten you to this.

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On 7/5/2021 at 6:30 PM, orange87 said:

I still don't understand why Lake Nona is even a thing. What was wrong with putting all of these buildings in downtown Orlando? It's not like DTO doesn't have enough room for development. Why essentially build a second DT for Orlando in the middle of nowhere? Makes no sense.

I would imagine the cost of acquiring and re-developing existing property there would have been prohibitive. This is to say nothing of the red tape and politics involved depending on where Tavistock chose to develop. The scope and scale of development would have been significantly smaller in that setting.

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23 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Oh give it a rest — nothing was sincere about your responses. Happy to enlighten you to this.

And I’m happy to tell you I don’t care at all about your opinion, so why don’t you check your ego, quit being a sensitive crybaby and stop presuming things.

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I could go into all the reasons why places like Nona, Baldwin Park, Celebration, etc., strike me as sterile (I like places that grow organically, not ones that are master planned from a spreadsheet to maximize the profits of an out of town developer); however, I’ll make it even more basic. Joe Lewis is one of those who encouraged Buddy to run the bulldozers at Church and Orange. That shows a stunning lack of concern for the community’s desires.

We also won’t get into the sprawl that Nona has engendered - at least Baldwin Park was an infill project.

I know many of those things don’t matter if your family hasn’t been a part of this place for a very long time but to me, they’re huge. Nona exists, you seem pleased with it, so I hope you’ll be happy there. There’s no way I ever could be. 

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19 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

And I’m happy to tell you I don’t care at all about your opinion, so why don’t you check your ego, quit being a sensitive crybaby and stop presuming things.

You just seem really into this anti - Lake Nona trend without anything but a counter-attack on those who think it’s an added benefit to Orlando. 
I don’t have a stake in the game. 
If you have things larger than insults to express, go for it.

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12 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

 

I know many of those things don’t matter if your family hasn’t been a part of this place for a very long time but to me, they’re huge. Nona exists, you seem pleased with it, so I hope you’ll be happy there. There’s no way I ever could be. 

You don't need to be there.  

When I lived in Boston -- I never went to East Boston.  There was no need for it.

In LA, for 5 years, there are a number of places I never went. 

I guess I still am not seeing the point.  

 

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7 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

You don't need to be there.  

When I lived in Boston -- I never went to East Boston.  There was no need for it.

In LA, for 5 years, there are a number of places I never went. 

I guess I still am not seeing the point.  

 

I would mostly agree except it’s just more sprawl which Orlando really needs to rein in. We keep being told that will happen - someday. When do we start?

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18 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

You just seem really into this anti - Lake Nona trend without anything but a counter-attack on those who think it’s an added benefit to Orlando. 
I don’t have a stake in the game. 
If you have things larger than insults to express, go for it.

Insults? How sensitive of you. You’re the one who started with me and now you’re crying when I respond?

You claim you don’t have a stake in the game yet your little whiny diatribe says otherwise. Clearly a nerve was touched.

I’ve stated my views and my position on Lake Nona multiple times. Go back and read the thread. Who do you think you are? I’m not gonna placate you with a cliffsnotes version or give you the courtesy of legwork.

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10 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

I would mostly agree except it’s just more sprawl which Orlando really needs to rein in. We keep being told that will happen - someday. When do we start?

Orlando, and Florida in general, do not create development boundaries and mandate how development is built.  Given that construction is a major Florida industry and the only way to maintain it is to keep building, I don't see that changing.  

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13 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

Orlando, and Florida in general, do not create development boundaries and mandate how development is built.  Given that construction is a major Florida industry and the only way to maintain it is to keep building, I don't see that changing.  

Actually we made a decent start on it with the Growth Management Acts in the 1980’s. We also had local officials who were very proactive during that time.

Admittedly, poor leadership in Tallahassee and locally (something I never thought I’d see - OC has outpaced Orlando recently on wetlands protection) have walked back much of the legislation that was hailed as groundbreaking at the time. However, I prefer to believe that at some point we’ll get our act together again.

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