Lake Nona - Medical City

[Urbo]

1 hour ago, aleonrivera said:

In early 2020 there were plans in discussion with higher level planners in Orange County to transition into a form-based code countywide, similar to what has been done in Miami with Miami 21. I am sure there has been either a delay or pause, but that approach to zoning is very likely a thing to occur here in the future. Maybe once Orange County adopts form-based code the City or Orlando would follow with a similar model.

Yes, and they've actually started those conversations back over the past few months. DPZ CoDesign has been leading virtual town hall meetings for the Vision2050 plan for Orange County (I'm glad the King of Form-based code, Andres Duany and his company is involved in this process as it give me a lot of hope they will get it right). They will essentially be adopting a new land development code called "The Orange Code" which will be a form-base code for the county and put a lot more focus on placemaking and higher design standards. The more recent virtual town hall meetings for the Orange Code are on DPZ CoDesign's Youtube Channel (and more info and the recordings of all the meetings can be found on the orange county planning department website below).

I'm glad Lake Nona is creating a model for what mixed use development outside the city center should be (or at least close to it).  Development will always occur outside of the the main urban node of downtown in every major city. Its not a matter of trying to stop it, but instead influence developers to create great places that compliment and add to the urban character of Orlando and the region.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCyWjAz7Z1P0I9HXcKiBD0ew/videos

https://www.orangecountyfl.net/PlanningDevelopment/ComprehensivePlanning/Vision2050.aspx#.YQV_zEApCiM

[Urbo]

Just the beginning...

[Uncommon]

Amazing pics! Lake Nona is absolutely beautiful and has so much potential for the city of Orlando.

[IAmFloridaBorn]

I should change my name to 'IHateLakeNona'

[Urbo]

3 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Amazing pics! Lake Nona is absolutely beautiful and has so much potential for the city of Orlando.

Agreed!! Lake Nona is bringing an energy to Orlando that is unparalleled to any other development in the city. It’s amazing to see it unfold. Can’t wait to see this URBAN hub grow into its potential!

[Urbo]

1 hour ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

I should change my name to 'IHateLakeNona'

Lol why is the hate so strong? Seems like the downtowners are a little jelly of Lake Nona. Almost like the older sibling jealous of the younger sibling with the better job, more attractive spouse and bigger house lol.

As Lake Nona enhances their mobility options, increases its density and adds more retail and entertainment venues you will come around. Hard not to love it in my opinion. 

[Uncommon]

39 minutes ago, Urbo said:

Lol why is the hate so strong? Seems like the downtowners are a little jelly of Lake Nona. Almost like the older sibling jealous of the younger sibling with the better job, more attractive spouse and bigger house lol.

As Lake Nona enhances their mobility options, increases its density and adds more retail and entertainment venues you will come around. Hard not to love it in my opinion. 

Lol I don’t think it’s jealousy imo. URBAN planeteers love urbanity. And while some might say LN is new age urban, in reality, it’s a giant suburb with a town center. Doesn’t mean it’s not an awesome, thriving, futuristic live/work/play place to live, because it is. I adore Lake Nona. You and I have had these conversations before so I won’t rehash them, but LN is not the typical representation of urbanity and kinda adds to the master-planned stereotype of Orlando in general.

Screw em though. Orlando is multi-nodal anyway. I just wish there was a train that connected downtown, LN, college park, Ivanhoe, Avalon Park, and Sodo together. That would improve the overall urban fabric of the city.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Uncommon

[tc01]

Would people prefer Lake Nona to stay agricultural with vacant land and cows?! It shows Central Florida is growing…. Just saying  lol

[Urbo]

1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

Lol I don’t think it’s jealousy imo. URBAN planeteers love urbanity. And while some might say LN is new age urban, in reality, it’s a giant suburb with a town center. Doesn’t mean it’s not an awesome, thriving, futuristic live/work/play place to live, because it is. I adore Lake Nona. You and I have had these conversations before so I won’t rehash them, but LN is not the typical representation of urbanity and kinda adds to the master-planned stereotype of Orlando in general.

Screw em though. Orlando is multi-nodal anyway. I just wish there was a train that connected downtown, LN, college park, Ivanhoe, Avalon Park, and Sodo together. That would improve the overall urban fabric of the city.

Yes I definitely understand the passion of traditional urban neighborhoods. May be hard to tell but I have that same passion.  I just believe Urban is not a stagnate form or function. It evolves just as we as a people and society evolves. And we can embrace different forms and function of Urbanism. Glad you can appreciate the good in Lake Nona. And who knows, with the right politics and resources more rail may be in Orlando’s future and I’m sure Lake Nona would make a heavy push to be included in that plan if it were to happen. 

[orlandouprise]

i think LN is Orlando's version of Atlanta's Cobb Galleria/Perimeter/ Vinings Area in its infancy

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, orlandouprise said:

i think LN is Orlando's version of Atlanta's Cobb Galleria/Perimeter/ Vinings Area in its infancy

Eek! The Perimeter - thar be Republicans!

[F-L-A]

18 hours ago, tc01 said:

Would people prefer Lake Nona to stay agricultural with vacant land and cows?!

Yes. Put these developments in the existing city and stop sprawling. It's bad for the environment. 

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, F-L-A said:

Yes. Put these developments in the existing city and stop sprawling. It's bad for the environment. 

Yes, it’s like placing Florida Poly in the middle of nowhere. It was done for one reason only: to make a powerful state senator’s land more valuable. As he sells it off for development, it just encourages more sprawl of the worst kind (highway based big boxes and fast fooderies).

If there needed to be yet another university in Polk County (a questionable assumption), it should have gone in Winter Haven or Lake Wales (extending the existing grid - Lakeland’s too close to USF in beautiful Temple Terrace) .

As much as Lake Nona touts its town center, most of what has sprung up has been the wrong kind of development along Narcoossee Rd in an environmentally sensitive area. We keep repeating the same errors that have degraded Florida for decades for one reason only: to make developers even wealthier. 

 

[Urbo]

52 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Yes, it’s like placing Florida Poly in the middle of nowhere. It was done for one reason only: to make a powerful state senator’s land more valuable. As he sells it off for development, it just encourages more sprawl of the worst kind (highway based big boxes and fast fooderies).

If there needed to be yet another university in Polk County (a questionable assumption), it should have gone in Winter Haven or Lake Wales (extending the existing grid - Lakeland’s too close to USF in beautiful Temple Terrace) .

As much as Lake Nona touts its town center, most of what has sprung up has been the wrong kind of development along Narcoossee Rd in an environmentally sensitive area. We keep repeating the same errors that have degraded Florida for decades for one reason only: to make developers even wealthier. 

 

I agree in theory but it’s just not the reality of business and politics which influence development. We are negating the fact the there is a business market for homes and offices outside of the city core. Unless we want to be communist China and force urbanization on the population, we have to understand the nature of the market and implement the best development strategies and urban design principles in communities that provide the benefits of an urban lifestyle. Everybody doesn’t have the same political and world views which means people naturally want different outcomes. It’s the balancing of the political wishes and market needs that propels us to a higher functioning society. Some people are just not happy living in the core of the city, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t produce living and work environments for them to enjoy life in. But we can still develop land and places with urban principles no matter where it’s geographically located because an urban lifestyle offers the best quality of life. Again, I 100% agree with the theory and I actually subscribe to the more radical philosophy of car-free cities and development. But that idea is so far from what the reality of the current political and business landscape.  Maybe Lake Nona is not a good development in Thoery, but it’s a good development in real-life (especially for Orlando).

I also agree with the notion of Narcoossee not being so pleasant, but is it honestly that much worse than colonial drive?

[aent]

2 hours ago, F-L-A said:

Yes. Put these developments in the existing city and stop sprawling. It's bad for the environment. 

So are we never allowed to create a new city again? We have enough city centers and thats it, no more?

Narcoossee is at least as "nice and urban" as OBT. One side of the street of Narcoossee isn't even considered Lake Nona.

 

[Urbo]

20 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

i think LN is Orlando's version of Atlanta's Cobb Galleria/Perimeter/ Vinings Area in its infancy

Yes pretty comparable. Potential of Lake Nona gives me more of a feel similar to Tysons in VA. I think the urban district of Lake Nona will have similar feels of the Boro in Tysons (or at least hope so as the new development happening out there is great). 

[spenser1058]

1 hour ago, Urbo said:

I agree in theory but it’s just not the reality of business and politics which influence development. We are negating the fact the there is a business market for homes and offices outside of the city core. Unless we want to be communist China and force urbanization on the population, we have to understand the nature of the market and implement the best development strategies and urban design principles in communities that provide the benefits of an urban lifestyle. Everybody doesn’t have the same political and world views which means people naturally want different outcomes. It’s the balancing of the political wishes and market needs that propels us to a higher functioning society. Some people are just not happy living in the core of the city, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t produce living and work environments for them to enjoy life in. But we can still develop land and places with urban principles no matter where it’s geographically located because an urban lifestyle offers the best quality of life. Again, I 100% agree with the theory and I actually subscribe to the more radical philosophy of car-free cities and development. But that idea is so far from what the reality of the current political and business landscape.  Maybe Lake Nona is not a good development in Thoery, but it’s a good development in real-life (especially for Orlando).

I also agree with the notion of Narcoossee not being so pleasant, but is it honestly that much worse than colonial drive?

We don’t have to be China - we can implement the types of sustainable growth that have been used in western Europe and right here at home in places like the Pacific Northwest. 

We even made headway in Florida beginning in the mid-80’s until Jeb! ushered in the era of the Tallahassee Idiots.

This all stops the minute we tell our government “enough”. Just as there are property rights, we have the right as citizens to protect our environment and the sandy spit of land we called home.

The Declaration proclaims the “pursuit of happiness” for all of us. It says nothing about protecting unchecked greed, nor does the Constitution. It promises to “promote the general welfare”, not just the corporate welfare.

As to Colonial Drive, I agree and I recently posted about an editorial I co-wrote in 1974 for my high school newspaper where we were told by a developer they had learned lessons about that kind of ugliness in Pine Hills. Their successors then repeated it 15 years later on a pristine stretch of Highway 50 a few miles west. 

One of the evolutionary survival mechanisms of humans is the ability to learn from mistakes. Remaining in an endless feedback loop of degrading the planet is not a recipe for success, especially when its only purpose is to line the pockets of the greedy.

We can change the world starting from right here at home in a place we value. It’s all up to us.
 

Edited August 15, 2021 by spenser1058

[Uncommon]

I wouldn’t wish a road become Colonial Dr on my worst enemy’s city. Colonial is an urban nightmare and a cesspool from start to finish in Orlando (although it begins to look a lot better once you reach Winter Garden).

For everyone’s sake, I seriously hope Narcoossee doesn’t become 50’s sequel.

[F-L-A]

9 hours ago, aent said:

So are we never allowed to create a new city again? We have enough city centers and thats it, no more?

Narcoossee is at least as "nice and urban" as OBT. One side of the street of Narcoossee isn't even considered Lake Nona.

 

Cities have historically developed organically when there's a need, they weren't master-planned. Your question is moot anyway, as Lake Nona isn't even a new city, it's literally part of Orlando. A part of Orlando that isn't contributing to the city as much as building some of these things closer to the existing city center would. 

[Urbo]

2 hours ago, F-L-A said:

Cities have historically developed organically when there's a need, they weren't master-planned. Your question is moot anyway, as Lake Nona isn't even a new city, it's literally part of Orlando. A part of Orlando that isn't contributing to the city as much as building some of these things closer to the existing city center would. 

I would actually argue the opposite. Many of  America’s greatest and most urban cities were master planned and carefully thought-out from its inception (D.C., New York, Charleston, Savannah). Tavistock is not your ordinary developer who subdivides land, sells lots to the highest bidder and leaves with no care for the community. They have a commitment to high quality design, interesting architecture, and place making, mobility, and conservation.  Compact developments, inclusion of trails, parks, green infrastructure, public art even the parking garages are concealed and works of art. The list goes on. They are at the forefront and doing a better job than almost any other entity in Orlando with economic development and have lured a few of the worlds largest companies to invest in its vision. Tavistock would have went bankrupt trying to implement this plan in the city center, it’s just not feasible at this point in time. The City of Orlando is lucky to have Lake Nona apart of its tax base. In a dream world yes, pour the billions of dollars into the city center of Orlando. But the amount of opposition they would of face, amount of time and money it would take to assemble a project  of that scale, and the level of demand from the market needed in that location is just unrealistic. There is nothing wrong with master planning cities or communities when they are done right. 

[KnightBay]

On 8/15/2021 at 12:40 PM, Urbo said:

I agree in theory but it’s just not the reality of business and politics which influence development. We are negating the fact the there is a business market for homes and offices outside of the city core. Unless we want to be communist China and force urbanization on the population, we have to understand the nature of the market and implement the best development strategies and urban design principles in communities that provide the benefits of an urban lifestyle. Everybody doesn’t have the same political and world views which means people naturally want different outcomes. It’s the balancing of the political wishes and market needs that propels us to a higher functioning society. Some people are just not happy living in the core of the city, that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t produce living and work environments for them to enjoy life in. But we can still develop land and places with urban principles no matter where it’s geographically located because an urban lifestyle offers the best quality of life. Again, I 100% agree with the theory and I actually subscribe to the more radical philosophy of car-free cities and development. But that idea is so far from what the reality of the current political and business landscape.  Maybe Lake Nona is not a good development in Thoery, but it’s a good development in real-life (especially for Orlando).

I also agree with the notion of Narcoossee not being so pleasant, but is it honestly that much worse than colonial drive?

Zoning=Communism? 

[aent]

18 hours ago, F-L-A said:

Cities have historically developed organically when there's a need, they weren't master-planned. Your question is moot anyway, as Lake Nona isn't even a new city, it's literally part of Orlando. A part of Orlando that isn't contributing to the city as much as building some of these things closer to the existing city center would. 

Lake Nona is developing as a result of a need. Many of those who located in Lake Nona made it clear they wouldn't have located in Orlando without it, that was the deciding factor.

And while Lake Nona is technically part of the city limits, its not part of the existing downtown, and other areas have split off from other cities in a similar situation once they got to a size that warrants that.

Downtown Orlando tries to master plan everything. The DDB reviews everything and tells everyone exactly how it needs to be designed. Interestingly, I don't think very many of the buildings being built in Lake Nona were even an option for Orlando, they weren't designed by Baker Barrios. Thats the big difference: Lake Nona wants to design everything to increase property values while maintaining a realism to make sure things get built, because, ya know, thats how they make their money. But Orlando, they usually don't care if someone walks over their rules and master plans, they don't try to find a way to make it work, its surely isn't the DDB's pocketbook that is hurt when they chase everyone away. And its easy to blame Baker Barrios when the buildings all look bland, all the while they push every developer to them, since they're the ones who get stuff approved.

I'd be as thrilled as all the haters if this could have been built in Paramore, but there's no way it could: people would be screaming about wiping out the historic neighborhoods, gentrification at an insane speed, and the buildings don't have enough visors.

[jrs2]

On 8/14/2021 at 4:36 PM, spenser1058 said:

Eek! The Perimeter - thar be Republicans!

wrong.  that would be Cobb County...where there be no MARTA!  LOL.

On 8/15/2021 at 5:04 PM, Uncommon said:

I wouldn’t wish a road become Colonial Dr on my worst enemy’s city. Colonial is an urban nightmare and a cesspool from start to finish in Orlando (although it begins to look a lot better once you reach Winter Garden).

For everyone’s sake, I seriously hope Narcoossee doesn’t become 50’s sequel.

a buddy hooked up in that nasty motel on W. Colonial near the HD off Hiawassee last week.  He lauded it greatly... 

[spenser1058]

7 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

wrong.  that would be Cobb County...where there be no MARTA!  LOL.

a buddy hooked up in that nasty motel on W. Colonial near the HD off Hiawassee last week.  He lauded it greatly... 

Actually, Cobb is in the process of flipping. The hardcore spots now are like Sandy Springs. It’s like an Ayn Rand novel in some of those new towns.

[jrs2]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:28 PM, spenser1058 said:

We don’t have to be China - we can implement the types of sustainable growth that have been used in western Europe and right here at home in places like the Pacific Northwest. 

We even made headway in Florida beginning in the mid-80’s until Jeb! ushered in the era of the Tallahassee Idiots.

This all stops the minute we tell our government “enough”. Just as there are property rights, we have the right as citizens to protect our environment and the sandy spit of land we called home.

The Declaration proclaims the “pursuit of happiness” for all of us. It says nothing about protecting unchecked greed, nor does the Constitution. It promises to “promote the general welfare”, not just the corporate welfare.

As to Colonial Drive, I agree and I recently posted about an editorial I co-wrote in 1974 for my high school newspaper where we were told by a developer they had learned lessons about that kind of ugliness in Pine Hills. Their successors then repeated it 15 years later on a pristine stretch of Highway 50 a few miles west. 

One of the evolutionary survival mechanisms of humans is the ability to learn from mistakes. Remaining in an endless feedback loop of degrading the planet is not a recipe for success, especially when its only purpose is to line the pockets of the greedy.

We can change the world starting from right here at home in a place we value. It’s all up to us.
 

well, the flip side to that coin is that people don't want to live near the ghetto.  and that's where the demand comes from for suburban communities and it's as simple as that, greedy developers aside.  It's not just here.  It's everywhere.  even in Western Europe and the PACNW.

4 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

Actually, Cobb is in the process of flipping. The hardcore spots now are like Sandy Springs. It’s like an Ayn Rand novel in some of those new towns.

...and North Fulton is talking secession from the rest of Fulton...