Lake Nona - Medical City

[spenser1058]

There are a variety of things to know about exactly how many truly “creative” folks eventually move to Florida.

First of all, it’s worth noting that the move, which had been batted about for years, never took place until Bob Chapek became CEO of Disney. No surprise there, because Chapek is one of the least regarded company heads by the creative side going back at least to Card Walker in the ‘70’s (remember what Disney movies were like back then? of course, most of the attention at The Mouse in those days was on the parks, and it showed.)

Bob C. reminds me of the 1970’s when the accountants took the lead at GM and displaced the “car guys”, the designers and engineers who imagined the cars that made our hearts race. Instead, we got things like the Chevy Citation and Cadillacs that were really nothing more than Chevys but rebadged and sold for thousands more. If you were around then, you may remember that GM’s one-time 50% market share plummeted and never recovered.

Creative sorts who find this move totally at odds with the culture they thrive in (just imagine how the culture war declared by Ron DeSantis is playing in SoCal) may find a way around this.

When Walt first started WED Enterprises (the original name for what became Imagineering), it was pretty much the only game in town.

Over the years, as other parks and entertainment venues began to incorporate the kinds of rides Disney was now famous for, it became quite usual for some of those folks to go out on their own.

In the 21st century, as new parks were completed, folks at Disney Imagineering and Universal  Creative were pink-slipped in droves and even those industry-leading companies came to rely on independent creative firms.

As a result, the actual “heart” of Disney’s creative theme park folks (remember this move doesn’t really affect the studios) are probably finding ways to stay in SoCal. That’s one reason I suspect the actual head count numbers for the move have been challenging to pin down. The bulk of the move is likely to be more management and back-office folks.

The history of entertainment bears this out. In the beginning, when film makers sought to branch out from New York both for lower costs and the ability to film year-‘round, the first stop was…. Jacksonville! Unfortunately, the folks in the movie industry tended to be, ummmm, free thinkers and the citizens of Jax (who no doubt would have been DeSantis voters) were aghast at the goings on. It didn’t take long for the nascent industry to pack up and eventually ended up in California.

In the 1980’s, both Disney and Universal decided Orlando could become “Hollywood East”, combining new theme parks with actual film production. It would save money and Bob and Mavis from Peoria could be told if they came to Florida, they might see actual films being made just like in Hollywood.

It turned out not to work, not only because places like Georgia and Toronto were offering killer tax credits to film there, but also because few of the Hollywood creative infrastructure workers wanted to relocate to Florida.

There are other instances where attempts were made to bring the industry to Florida (Marineland, Silver Springs - the Tarzan movies, Ivan Tors Studios - Flipper!) but it just never caught.

So, if DeSantis doesn’t totally tick Bob C. off soon (and so far the Nona deal is unaffected), there will likely be Disney employees moving to Florida. Just how much they have to do with the nitty-gritty of the creative process is another matter entirely.

Edited May 24, 2022 by spenser1058

[AmIReal]

The City is moving forward with construction of their SE Orlando Government Center and last week selected a design firm to plan the 5-acre development. 

Per OBJ, the plan is a "15,000-square-foot building will include 1,700 square feet of government offices and a 4,300-square-foot Orlando Police Department substation, along with community meeting space and common areas. In addition, a separate new building will feature a 20,000-square-foot public library subleased by the Orange County Library System.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/23/orlando-contractor-lake-nona-orlando.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=4#cxrecs_s

[IAmFloridaBorn]

1 hour ago, AmIReal said:

The City is moving forward with construction of their SE Orlando Government Center and last week selected a design firm to plan the 5-acre development. 

Per OBJ, the plan is a "15,000-square-foot building will include 1,700 square feet of government offices and a 4,300-square-foot Orlando Police Department substation, along with community meeting space and common areas. In addition, a separate new building will feature a 20,000-square-foot public library subleased by the Orange County Library System.

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2022/05/23/orlando-contractor-lake-nona-orlando.html?cx_testId=40&cx_testVariant=cx_11&cx_artPos=4#cxrecs_s

this makes me think Lake Nona is becoming like a mini downtown Orlando. 

 

This is exactly what I used to do on Sim City and why my city center would grow slowly. 

I think we are in the day in age where we aren't going to see everything concentrated in the city centers anymore. Not a good thing for Orlando but we'll see. 

[jrs2]

16 minutes ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

this makes me think Lake Nona is becoming like a mini downtown Orlando. 

 

This is exactly what I used to do on Sim City and why my city center would grow slowly. 

I think we are in the day in age where we aren't going to see everything concentrated in the city centers anymore. Not a good thing for Orlando but we'll see. 

go to google street view and you'll see that they filled in that small lot with that 5 story glass curtain wall building.  it looks really good.  no parking deck, just a building.  Now imagine that building even at only 5 stories at the vacant lot at Pine & Orange.

[Urbo]

2 hours ago, IAmFloridaBorn said:

this makes me think Lake Nona is becoming like a mini downtown Orlando. 

 

This is exactly what I used to do on Sim City and why my city center would grow slowly. 

I think we are in the day in age where we aren't going to see everything concentrated in the city centers anymore. Not a good thing for Orlando but we'll see. 

If there was less NIMBYism in the city center and municipalities had more streamlined processes for developers within the city center I think we would see more concentration. 

Lake Nona isn’t the problem as they’ve consistently incorporated quality urban design and increased density in their community. If we are forced to have suburbs (which we are) then they should be developed just as good or better than Lake Nona. The problem is other more conventional suburban development that doesn’t appreciate good design and urbanism.

Lake Nona continues to add an unique dimension to Orlando with its Art, culture, sports and life science cluster. I think it has already proven to be a good thing for Orlando. 

[spenser1058]

And look at all those gated communities - it is simply the ideal Stepford lifestyle! 

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

And look at all those gated communities - it is simply the ideal Stepford lifestyle! 

I'm not an expert on Nona communities, but I wasn't aware a lot of them were gated. Are there many? I drove around in there last fall and I only recall 1 gated community- maybe I was just in the wrong area.

Regardless, the community is a HUGE net positive to the City of Orlando and those citizens- like many of the citizens in the other neighborhoods- love their place.

At this time, I don't plan to move there, but I can't understand the negative perspectives. 

 

[spenser1058]

6 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

I'm not an expert on Nona communities, but I wasn't aware a lot of them were gated. Are there many? I drove around in there last fall and I only recall 1 gated community- maybe I was just in the wrong area.

Regardless, the community is a HUGE net positive to the City of Orlando and those citizens- like many of the citizens in the other neighborhoods- love their place.

At this time, I don't plan to move there, but I can't understand the negative perspectives. 

 

Negative? Not at all, if that’s how you wish to live.

But since we seem to be throwing around the idea of developers being given carte blanche to destroy historic neighborhoods and that if we don’t agree we’re NIMBYs (a term that seems to be used anytime someone disagrees with you), it seems fair to note what you’re getting.

As for gated communities, they always remind me of life in a banana republic, but hey, that’s just me.

And we haven’t even discussed the sprawl and climate implications, either. Charge On!

[Urbo]

[jrs2]

11 hours ago, Urbo said:

wow!  LOL.  this town center seems more "creative" than...anyway...

That new 5 story building...holy cow on the exterior lighting!  I wasn't sure which building that was at first.  Amazing shots!

Can you imagine that 5 story building the way it looks...AT NIGHT... if it was off of I-4 downtown or anywhere off of I-4 and the visual impact that would make?  It looks to be a little bit taller than the Porsche dealership at Millennia...

[aent]

On 5/24/2022 at 8:30 PM, AmIReal said:

I'm not an expert on Nona communities, but I wasn't aware a lot of them were gated. Are there many? I drove around in there last fall and I only recall 1 gated community- maybe I was just in the wrong area.

Regardless, the community is a HUGE net positive to the City of Orlando and those citizens- like many of the citizens in the other neighborhoods- love their place.

At this time, I don't plan to move there, but I can't understand the negative perspectives. 

 

You would be correct, there are not many gated communities in Lake Nona. Infact, in the "urban" area of Lake Nona, south of 417, I believe there are exactly zero of them. They concentrated the gated communities on the north side, where the golf and country club and the "sports district" is since those tend not to very walkable regardless.

[codypet]

Lake Ajay Village 

[smileguy]

4 hours ago, aent said:

You would be correct, there are not many gated communities in Lake Nona. Infact, in the "urban" area of Lake Nona, south of 417, I believe there are exactly zero of them. They concentrated the gated communities on the north side, where the golf and country club and the "sports district" is since those tend not to very walkable regardless.

There are some gated areas down there.  The Preserve at Laureate Park being one.  

https://www.google.com/maps/@28.3801229,-81.2597515,3a,60y,8.27h,92.91t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sashnGgJzzOgQEu11KeNCdg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

 

Edited May 27, 2022 by smileguy
Link Embed

[spenser1058]

I came up with at least two after researching neighborhood ads on Google (I made sure each included the verbiage “in the master-planned community of Lake Nona”).

 

 

[spenser1058]

The Mouse has roared:

Disney delays moving 2,000 jobs to Orlando amid ‘don’t say gay’ clash with DeSantis

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-bz-disney-lake-nona-move-delayed-20220615-n6ohdk65z5gxxccpk3obsgzweu-story.html

From The Sentinel 

Kudos to Bob C btw, for doing this during Pride month. Nice touch, intentional or not…

Edited June 15, 2022 by spenser1058

[prahaboheme]

2 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

The Mouse has roared:

Disney delays moving 2,000 jobs to Orlando amid ‘don’t say gay’ clash with DeSantis

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-bz-disney-lake-nona-move-delayed-20220615-n6ohdk65z5gxxccpk3obsgzweu-story.html

From The Sentinel 

Kudos to Bob C btw, for doing this during Pride month. Nice touch, intentional or not…

As the article mentions, moving talent to Florida from Burbank was unpopular from the announcement let alone after DeSantis’s assault on the LGBT community and the Reedy Creek district.

I suspect that DeSantis and his cronies in Tallahassee will quietly walk back any mention of stripping Disney of the RCID status after this announcement. No one should be of the illusion that this is not a huge blow  to Orlando and it’s ability to attract high paying jobs.

[spenser1058]

46 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

As the article mentions, moving talent to Florida from Burbank was unpopular from the announcement let alone after DeSantis’s assault on the LGBT community and the Reedy Creek district.

I suspect that DeSantis and his cronies in Tallahassee will quietly walk back any mention of stripping Disney of the RCID status after this announcement. No one should be of the illusion that this is not a huge blow  to Orlando and it’s ability to attract high paying jobs.

There’s no doubt Bob C was tone deaf on this from the get-go, and recent moves he’s made replacing popular studio execs isn’t helping his standing with the creative end of the company. Both Bob Iger and Michael Eisner before him recognized that in a way Chapek doesn’t, but then it’s not his background.

I’m not so sure DeSantis is going to soft pedal this - OC, after all, is one of the bluest counties in Florida and everything he does is geared to the base, not actual governance.

Hopefully, you’re right, though. It may all be dependent on how quickly Disney turns the money spigot back on for campaign contributions.

Another part to this is that, for a long time, I think most cast members in Cali ignored what Florida was up to. It was easy to do because Florida politicians tended to be relatively moderate and didn’t have much of a national presence.

With Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis, neither of those statements is true any longer. Add to that the fact OC politics are changing rapidly and what goes on in Florida is no longer staying in Florida.

It may be harder for Disney’s Florida lobbyists to keep their contributions on the down low going forward.

Edited June 16, 2022 by spenser1058

[F-L-A]

50 minutes ago, prahaboheme said:

As the article mentions, moving talent to Florida from Burbank was unpopular from the announcement let alone after DeSantis’s assault on the LGBT community and the Reedy Creek district.

I suspect that DeSantis and his cronies in Tallahassee will quietly walk back any mention of stripping Disney of the RCID status after this announcement. No one should be of the illusion that this is not a huge blow  to Orlando and it’s ability to attract high paying jobs.

I think you're giving DeDumbass far too much credit here. He doesn't possess the self-awareness needed to comprehend when he's made a huge mistake, and will just lean into it even further, most likely celebrating it as some sort of moral victory and feather in his cap to win over those rural voters who don't know any better, all while continuing his smear campaign of our biggest employer.

Also, called it. 

[jack]

12 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

There’s no doubt Bob C was tone deaf on this from the get-go, and recent moves he’s made replacing popular studio execs isn’t helping his standing with the creative end of the company. Both Bob Iger and Michael Eisner before him recognized that in a way Chapek doesn’t, but then it’s not his background.

I’m not so sure DeSantis is going to soft pedal this - OC, after all, is one of the bluest counties in Florida and everything he does is geared to the base, not actual governance.

Hopefully, you’re right, though. It may all be dependent on how quickly Disney turns the money spigot back on for campaign contributions.

Another part to this is that, for a long time, I think most cast members in Cali ignored what Florida was up to. It was easy to do because Florida politicians tended to be relatively moderate and didn’t have much of a national presence.

With Rick Scott and Ron DeSantis, neither of those statements is true any longer. Add to that the fact OC politics are changing rapidly and what goes on in Florida is no longer staying in Florida.

It may be harder for Disney’s Florida lobbyists to keep their contributions on the down low going forward.

I would not compare Rick Scott to DeSantis. Say what you will about Scott, but his culture waring was basically was bark with no bite. He cared about efficiency and job growth. I have never seen a politician like DeSantis. That is not a compliment.  

I would also add that DeSantis has a good shot at being the president in 2024 and knows it. He really has changed his approach over the past year. 

Edited June 16, 2022 by jack

[spenser1058]

15 minutes ago, jack said:

I would not compare Rick Scott to DeSantis. Say what you will about Scott, but his culture waring was basically was bark with no bite. He cared about efficiency and job growth. I have never seen a politician like DeSantis. That is not a compliment.  

I would also add that DeSantis has a good shot at being the president in 2024 and knows it. He really has changed his approach over the past year. 

I will refrain from mentioning my thoughts about Rick, but he was definitely less moderate than Charlie or Jeb! before him.

Rick also is now known on the national level because of running the GOP’s Senate election committee (and some of his ideas recently announced are so out there even Republicans walked away from him). Meanwhile, DeSantis is already in full campaign mode. Rick also wants to be president but he has been totally eclipsed by DeSantis, unless a major gaffe occurs.

As to whether DeSantis will be president, it depends on who the Democrats nominate. I don’t think Biden will run (unless a miracle happened, I don’t think he ever planned to), and Kamala Harris, much to the GOP’s dismay, ain’t gonna be the nominee either.

Two things are most important - who the Democrats pick and how effectively the nominee campaigns. A Bill Clinton or Obama with Carville and Axelrod were unstoppable. As we always knew, Gore and Hillary would have been great in office but both were lousy campaigners and their campaign staffs weren’t any better.

It’s worth remembering that since 1988 the Republicans have won the popular vote exactly once. The nation doesn’t love the Republicans and it’s up to the Democrats to know how to fight elections on technical grounds. Republicans don’t win elections - Democrats lose them when they don’t bring their A team both before and after the first Tuesday after the first Monday in November.

[codypet]

1 hour ago, jack said:

I would not compare Rick Scott to DeSantis. Say what you will about Scott, but his culture waring was basically was bark with no bite. He cared about efficiency and job growth. I have never seen a politician like DeSantis. That is not a compliment.  

I would also add that DeSantis has a good shot at being the president in 2024 and knows it. He really has changed his approach over the past year. 

Rick especially as of late have been comparatively quiet compared to his GOP counterparts.   I suspect he's expecting blow back against his collogues and he's looking to stay around longer term.

[jliv]

18 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

As the article mentions, moving talent to Florida from Burbank was unpopular from the announcement let alone after DeSantis’s assault on the LGBT community and the Reedy Creek district.

I suspect that DeSantis and his cronies in Tallahassee will quietly walk back any mention of stripping Disney of the RCID status after this announcement. No one should be of the illusion that this is not a huge blow  to Orlando and it’s ability to attract high paying jobs.

I'm staying optimistic.   It was a bit ambitious to plan to relocate 2,000 jobs in two years to an office park which hasn't even broken ground; we haven't even seen any renderings for it!  It may be more about challenges with finding the temporary space they need to house the first wave of relocations.

[prahaboheme]

5 hours ago, jliv said:

I'm staying optimistic.   It was a bit ambitious to plan to relocate 2,000 jobs in two years to an office park which hasn't even broken ground; we haven't even seen any renderings for it!  It may be more about challenges with finding the temporary space they need to house the first wave of relocations.

Delaying relocation to 2026 — 

Seems like a clear indication that Disney will take the pulse of the political climate in Florida and see if it’s worth it at all to move high paying, talent jobs to a state that is activity on the assault against the state’s largest employer.

 

[shardoon]

This thread became way too political. Its a shame democrats are not in power in Florida because they are doing such a fabulous job running the country in washington with congress and the white house. That is brutal sarcasm in case anybody didn't realize. 

I could only imagine what would have happened if the 3 to 6 trillion dollar BBB wishlist would have gotten passed. We may have been full on Venezuela with runaway inflation. 

 

[prahaboheme]

^Speculative at best.

Meanwhile, we can see the impact of your governor as it plays out.