Lake Nona - Medical City

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

35 political threads and growing.  I feel like an 80s McDonald's sign.

 

But I like your info about Lake Nona Medical City.

speaking of fast food, did you or anyone else notice that BK has reverted back to it's classic "Burger King" signs?  The one on E. Colonial at Commonwealth just put the sign up.  It looks sharp.  (sorry, no photo)

[codypet]

@jrs2 gotcha fam.  I think BK had a branding issue though.  It's a faupax to have different logos on the same store and leave it that way.

That said, I like that its a rounded design and not just an ugly box like before.

Edited November 16, 2022 by codypet

[jrs2]

27 minutes ago, codypet said:

@jrs2 gotcha fam.  I think BK had a branding issue though.  It's a faupax to have different logos on the same store and leave it that way.

That said, I like that its a rounded design and not just an ugly box like before.

that new logo (retro logo) is literally making me hungry.  maybe it's the color scheme (red and "orange")?

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, jrs2 said:

speaking of fast food, did you or anyone else notice that BK has reverted back to it's classic "Burger King" signs?  The one on E. Colonial at Commonwealth just put the sign up.  It looks sharp.  (sorry, no photo)

I wish they'd revert back to their classic Burger King prices. 

Love the classic logo, though. 

[JFW657]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

@jrs2 gotcha fam.  I think BK had a branding issue though.  It's a faupax to have different logos on the same store and leave it that way.

That said, I like that its a rounded design and not just an ugly box like before.

Faux pas or no pas,  I like the mixed logos.   

 

[spenser1058]

On 11/16/2022 at 2:32 PM, JFW657 said:

Faux pas or no pas,  I like the mixed logos.   

 

I also noticed on last week’s UCF-Tulane game they’re using a brief jazzed up version of the “Have It Your Way” jingle at the end of their commercials.

In case you’re not old enough to remember:

https://www.google.com/search?q=have+it+your+way+burger+king+ad&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:6b9343e6,vid:KJXzkUH72cY

I wonder how old you have to be to know that’s retro? Where have you gone, Roman Gabriel?

https://www.google.com/search?q=roman+gabriel+burger+king&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:db46f995,vid:IFFi3ILvWVo

Doc Phillips’ Charities gives $10 million to UCF’s new nursing school at Nona:

https://floridapolitics.com/archives/572212-ucf-gets-10m-donation-for-its-new-nursing-school/
 

From New Mississippi Politics

Edited November 17, 2022 by spenser1058

[nite owℓ]

On 11/10/2022 at 8:02 PM, aent said:

If anyone actually listened to what DeSantis said, he literally said as much. The only change he really is pushing for is making sure they have their fees paid to the government, and that the board of the district will be appointed by the governor to make sure the government collects taxes from them, the same exact way that they do from Universal and SeaWorld and the rest of us. He literally said a new district will be created under a more traditional "special district" format, DeSantis has been clear he welcomes Disney to do business here and wants them to do well, but not get special privileges not available to others.

But Reedy Creek Improvement District wasn't even the only one to lose its special district status under that very law. Every district that was created under the rule that allowed RCID to operate in this manner is being disolved: Here's a full map of them:

As you can see, many of the others are in very red areas as well. The new law also literally says the districts can be re-established, following the current law, and not getting away with not following any rules when they were created pre-1968.

Also, why is it only an issue when the Republicans do this, and not the Democrats?

The Democrats, for the last several years, have been attacking Elon Musk and companies for not following their party lines, and literally acting on it. The "Rural Digital Opportunities Fund" awarded SpaceX $880 million as they were the lowest bidder in providing internet to 650,000 locations, but the FCC revoked their funding when the Democrats took over to get back at Elon Musk. They left Tesla out of the subsidy funding in the EV vehicle subsidy bill, while including the foreign manufacturers. They've been trying to do this to Elon for many years now. Just yesterday, Joe Biden was asked "Do you think Elon Musk is a threat to US national security?" and Biden answered that he " is worthy of being looked at" and when asked "How?" he just said “There’s a lot of ways,” How is the Democrat President Joe Biden and his administration doing this to Elon Musk and SpaceX and Tesla without you guys complaining about Disney not complaining about this?

Both parties have always done this. If you want to get subsidies and special exemptions from the law from the government, you better be friendly to them, regardless of who is in power. I don't like these exemptions and subsidies existing, but lets be fair. I'd be happy to get rid of it for everyone. Thats the right way to raise taxes

 

I've already mentioned that exact point because Reedy Creek and 5 other districts were created under Chapter 189:

On 4/25/2022 at 6:12 PM, nite owℓ said:

Apparently The Villages will retain it's special district because it was created under Chapter 190. Disney and 4 other districts were formed under Chapter 189:

 •Hamilton County Development Authority

• East Point Water and Sewer District (Franklin County)

• Bradford County Development Authority

• Reedy Creek Improvement District aka Disney (Orange and Osceola Counties)

• Sunshine Drainage District (Broward County)

https://www.villages-news.com/2022/04/21/the-villages-district-office-issues-statement-indicating-its-not-part-of-desantis-aim-at-disney/

 

Reedy Creek's dissolution was targeted and retaliatory. DeSantis and others have plainly said so. Of course the 5 other districts within  Chapter 189 are going to be affected, but they are collateral damage. I specifically stated there are over 1,800 special districts in Florida so IMO what's good for the goose should be good for the gander and they should all be called to the table & required to go through the process of reauthorization in 2023 as well. Republicans claim to want to limit "Big Government" interference yet have repeatedly tried to use the arm of the government to ham-handedly interfere. You claim Disney was "getting away with not following any rules when they were created pre-1968." What were they getting away with exactly?? What nonsense, they are following the terms that were originally agreed to.

How about DeSantis performs due diligence and follows the terms written in the act before recklessly trying to scrap Reedy Creek? Per the Daytona Beach News Journal:

On page 73, in Section 56, there’s this part where “the state of Florida pledges to the holders of any bonds issued under this Act that it will not limit or alter the rights of the District to own, acquire, construct, reconstruct, improve, maintain, operate or furnish the projects or to levy and collect the taxes, assessments, rentals, rates, fees, tolls, fares and other charges provided for herein … and that it will not modify in any way the exemption from taxation provided in the Act, until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any action or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged.” A lot of legalese, but legalese that seems to pledge not to mess with things until the bonds are paid up. And that would be sometime around 2038. https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/opinion/columns/2022/04/28/ron-desantis-disney-dont-say-gay-what-next-reedy-creek-florida-special-districts/7437213001/

 

And what does government subsidies (especially those which require bids to win government contracts) have to so with special districts?? Apples to oranges. How typical to try and conflate irrelevant issues mixed with misinformation to pad your argument. However, I'll play along. BTW, Starlink won the funding in a reverse auction, it still needed FCC approval of a long-form application. A simple google search explains why funding was denied:

In a press release, the FCC said both Starlink and LTD Broadband — another company that initially was awarded $1.3 billion in subsidies under the program — “failed to demonstrate that the providers could deliver the promised service." We cannot afford to subsidize ventures that are not delivering the promised speeds or are not likely to meet program requirements,” FCC Chair Jessica Rosenworcel said in a statement. Rosenworcel added that SpaceX’s technology has “real promise” but emphasized that Starlink is still “developing.” https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/10/fcc-denies-spacex-bid-for-nearly-1-billion-in-broadband-subsidies-for-starlink.html

Not to mention Starlink raising it's monthly fee from $11 to $110 and requiring customers to purchase a $600 dish -- not exactly affordable to rural communities. Starlink and the government made their points and they can continue to hash it out and allow Starlink to prove itself.

[jrs2]

2 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

 

I've already mentioned that exact point because Reedy Creek and 5 other districts were created under Chapter 189:

 

Reedy Creek's dissolution was targeted and retaliatory. DeSantis and others have plainly said so. Of course the 5 other districts within  Chapter 189 are going to be affected, but they are collateral damage. I specifically stated there are over 1,800 special districts in Florida so IMO what's good for the goose should be good for the gander and they should all be called to the table & required to go through the process of reauthorization in 2023 as well. Republicans claim to want to limit "Big Government" interference yet have repeatedly tried to use the arm of the government to ham-handedly interfere. You claim Disney was "getting away with not following any rules when they were created pre-1968." What were they getting away with exactly?? What nonsense, they are following the terms that were originally agreed to.

How about DeSantis performs due diligence and follows the terms written in the act before recklessly trying to scrap Reedy Creek? Per the Daytona Beach News Journal:

On page 73, in Section 56, there’s this part where “the state of Florida pledges to the holders of any bonds issued under this Act that it will not limit or alter the rights of the District to own, acquire, construct, reconstruct, improve, maintain, operate or furnish the projects or to levy and collect the taxes, assessments, rentals, rates, fees, tolls, fares and other charges provided for herein … and that it will not modify in any way the exemption from taxation provided in the Act, until all such bonds together with interest thereon, and all costs and expenses in connection with any action or proceeding by or on behalf of such holders, are fully met and discharged.” A lot of legalese, but legalese that seems to pledge not to mess with things until the bonds are paid up. And that would be sometime around 2038. https://www.news-journalonline.com/story/opinion/columns/2022/04/28/ron-desantis-disney-dont-say-gay-what-next-reedy-creek-florida-special-districts/7437213001/

 

And what does government subsidies (especially those which require bids to win government contracts) have to so with special districts?? Apples to oranges. How typical to try and conflate irrelevant issues mixed with misinformation to pad your argument. However, I'll play along. BTW, Starlink won the funding in a reverse auction, it still needed FCC approval of a long-form application. A simple google search explains why funding was denied:

In a press release, the FCC said both Starlink and LTD Broadband — another company that initially was awarded $1.3 billion in subsidies under the program — “failed to demonstrate that the providers could deliver the promised service." We cannot afford to subsidize ventures that are not delivering the promised speeds or are not likely to meet program requirements,” FCC Chair Jessica Rosenworcel said in a statement. Rosenworcel added that SpaceX’s technology has “real promise” but emphasized that Starlink is still “developing.” https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/10/fcc-denies-spacex-bid-for-nearly-1-billion-in-broadband-subsidies-for-starlink.html

Not to mention Starlink raising it's monthly fee from $11 to $110 and requiring customers to purchase a $600 dish -- not exactly affordable to rural communities. Starlink and the government made their points and they can continue to hash it out and allow Starlink to prove itself.

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/in-depth-understanding-special-districts-in-florida

this is the link to the graphic that @aentposted on the prior page of this thread.  They list examples of what the 1,800 or so special districts are, anywhere from school districts to college districts, throughout the state.  On your point, why would someone have to dissolve a  run of the mill, non-Chapter 189 school district, for example, to bolster your 'goose and gander' comparison to these 5 special districts? One has nothing to do with the other.

Do you have a citation to DeSantis saying it was retaliatory?

[nite owℓ]

5 hours ago, jrs2 said:

https://www.abcactionnews.com/news/state/in-depth-understanding-special-districts-in-florida

this is the link to the graphic that @aentposted on the prior page of this thread.  They list examples of what the 1,800 or so special districts are, anywhere from school districts to college districts, throughout the state.  On your point, why would someone have to dissolve a  run of the mill, non-Chapter 189 school district, for example, to bolster your 'goose and gander' comparison to these 5 special districts? One has nothing to do with the other.

Do you have a citation to DeSantis saying it was retaliatory?

1) Well if you want to obfuscate things, they are ALL pretty much run of the mill special districts with terms that were already agreed upon upon implementation. Nothing has changed that would warrant Reedy Creek's dissolution unless those in the district saw a need to do otherwise.

2) Do you not pay attention to the news (other than OAN, Info Wars, and whatever else masquerades itself as a credible news source)?

From Desantis's own mouth: "I am not comfortable having one company with their own government and special privileges, when that company has pledged itself to attacking the parents in my state," he said. "When that company has very high up people talking about injecting pansexualism into programing for young kids, it's wrong. Walt Disney would not want that. And so get back to the mission. Do what you did great. That's why people love the company, and you've lost your way. Maybe this will be the wake-up call that they need to get back on track." https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-reedy-creek-wakeup-call-disney/39859459#

Not to mention other sycophants who have done live interviews to hop on the Disney-hate train and parrot the same nonsense.

I'll just leave it at that and won't be commenting any further -- you and that other one are like 2 sides of the same coin anyway lol.

 

DeSantis's decision was childish, spiteful and reckless.

Further down in the article, our Tax Collector, Scott Randolph, speaks very clearly of the financial impact that it will have on residents:

"The moment that it dissolves, that money's gone. Just gone. And instead, what happens is all the debts and obligations of Reedy Creek get transferred over to Orange County government," Scott Randolph, Orange County tax collector, said.

"Worst case scenario, Orange County's going to find themselves in a $163 million hole that they've got to fill that they may not even be able to fill with property taxes even if they raised it to the maximum level allowed," Randolph said.

Further, officials are concerned that Disney's $1 billion in bond debt will be assumed by local governments. In a statement to investors, Reedy Creek reminded of Florida law: "the dissolution of a special district government shall transfer title to all of its property to the local general purpose government, which shall also assume all indebtedness of the preexisting special district."

'nuff said.

Edited November 23, 2022 by nite owℓ

[jrs2]

13 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

1) Well if you want to obfuscate things, they are ALL pretty much run of the mill special districts with terms that were already agreed upon upon implementation. Nothing has changed that would warrant Reedy Creek's dissolution unless those in the district saw a need to do otherwise.

2) Do you not pay attention to the news (other than OAN, Info Wars, and whatever else masquerades itself as a credible news source)?

From Desantis's own mouth: "I am not comfortable having one company with their own government and special privileges, when that company has pledged itself to attacking the parents in my state," he said. "When that company has very high up people talking about injecting pansexualism into programing for young kids, it's wrong. Walt Disney would not want that. And so get back to the mission. Do what you did great. That's why people love the company, and you've lost your way. Maybe this will be the wake-up call that they need to get back on track." https://www.wesh.com/article/desantis-reedy-creek-wakeup-call-disney/39859459#

Not to mention other sycophants who have done live interviews to hop on the Disney-hate train and parrot the same nonsense.

I'll just leave it at that and won't be commenting any further -- you and that other one are like 2 sides of the same coin anyway lol.

 

DeSantis's decision was childish, spiteful and reckless.

Further down in the article, our Tax Collector, Scott Randolph, speaks very clearly of the financial impact that it will have on residents:

"The moment that it dissolves, that money's gone. Just gone. And instead, what happens is all the debts and obligations of Reedy Creek get transferred over to Orange County government," Scott Randolph, Orange County tax collector, said.

"Worst case scenario, Orange County's going to find themselves in a $163 million hole that they've got to fill that they may not even be able to fill with property taxes even if they raised it to the maximum level allowed," Randolph said.

Further, officials are concerned that Disney's $1 billion in bond debt will be assumed by local governments. In a statement to investors, Reedy Creek reminded of Florida law: "the dissolution of a special district government shall transfer title to all of its property to the local general purpose government, which shall also assume all indebtedness of the preexisting special district."

'nuff said.

Thanks for the quote. I never saw that before.

And actually, I get a lot of my news from these boards; I get the news and I get the slant put on it too (like here).  And I read peoples' slants because I want to know what people are thinking about these issues.  It's called a balance...you know...Yoda?

But why am I the one obfuscating things?  they technically limited it to only Chapter 189, regardless if they're all run of the mill special districts.

Even in that article they said in the end more than likely nothing will change, ala the $$$ effect it might otherwise have had on the County.

[aent]

On 11/22/2022 at 1:07 PM, nite owℓ said:

What were they getting away with exactly?? What nonsense, they are following the terms that were originally agreed to.

I've said it multiple times, as did DeSantis. They are avoiding permitting, property taxes on assets owned by the district such as much of their private parking lots, and various other taxes and fees that literally every other district in the state not being terminated are not able to avoid.

On 11/22/2022 at 1:07 PM, nite owℓ said:

And what does government subsidies (especially those which require bids to win government contracts) have to so with special districts?? Apples to oranges. How typical to try and conflate irrelevant issues mixed with misinformation to pad your argument.

Since as I said in the last sentence, they are avoiding taxes literally no one else is able to avoid, such as Universal, they are in fact getting government subsidies through this special district. This simply puts the on a level playing field.

On 11/22/2022 at 9:45 PM, nite owℓ said:

Further down in the article, our Tax Collector, Scott Randolph, speaks very clearly of the financial impact that it will have on residents:

"The moment that it dissolves, that money's gone. Just gone. And instead, what happens is all the debts and obligations of Reedy Creek get transferred over to Orange County government," Scott Randolph, Orange County tax collector, said.

While it is true our local tax collector and other local officials have said that, DeSantis and the state legislators who passed the law have repeatedly said the district will be reformed as the law states they can do, having them in line with the other districts in the state, and keeping Disney paying for both the bond and more taxes that literally every competitor has to pay. Why are you so against Disney paying their fair share, like all of the competition has to?

On 11/22/2022 at 1:07 PM, nite owℓ said:

However, I'll play along. BTW, Starlink won the funding in a reverse auction, it still needed FCC approval of a long-form application.

The previous FCC administration stated Starlink was qualified. Starlink certified it could meet the requirements. The FCC said they didn't believe it around the same time Joe Biden said we need to investigate Elon Musk. They changed the rules to take funding from a political opponent. As it was a reverse auction, Starlink was the cheapest option to provide high speed internet to rural, underserved areas, but the FCC is rejecting them for political reasons. Under current Florida law, Reedy Creek needs to be reauthorized under the current rule, so why is it different when the FCC changes its rules to reject SpaceX/Starlink from getting subsidies?

On 11/22/2022 at 1:07 PM, nite owℓ said:

Not to mention Starlink raising it's monthly fee from $11 to $110 and requiring customers to purchase a $600 dish -- not exactly affordable to rural communities. Starlink and the government made their points and they can continue to hash it out and allow Starlink to prove itself.

Again, your spreading misinformation. The price went from $99/month to $110/month to due to Biden's price hike/inflation, it was never $11/month. Starlink is generally cheaper then the other rural ISPs. Even the $600 dish is significantly cheaper then the alternatives, who frequently charged many thousands of dollars for installation of additional lines to rural customers, such as Spectrum, Comcast, AT&T, etc.

 

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by aent

[nite owℓ]

On 11/23/2022 at 11:20 PM, aent said:

I've said it multiple times, as did DeSantis. They are avoiding permitting, property taxes on assets owned by the district such as much of their private parking lots, and various other taxes and fees that literally every other district in the state not being terminated are not able to avoid.

Since as I said in the last sentence, they are avoiding taxes literally no one else is able to avoid, such as Universal, they are in fact getting government subsidies through this special district. This simply puts the on a level playing field.

While it is true our local tax collector and other local officials have said that, DeSantis and the state legislators who passed the law have repeatedly said the district will be reformed as the law states they can do, having them in line with the other districts in the state, and keeping Disney paying for both the bond and more taxes that literally every competitor has to pay. Why are you so against Disney paying their fair share, like all of the competition has to?

The previous FCC administration stated Starlink was qualified. Starlink certified it could meet the requirements. The FCC said they didn't believe it around the same time Joe Biden said we need to investigate Elon Musk. They changed the rules to take funding from a political opponent. As it was a reverse auction, Starlink was the cheapest option to provide high speed internet to rural, underserved areas, but the FCC is rejecting them for political reasons. Under current Florida law, Reedy Creek needs to be reauthorized under the current rule, so why is it different when the FCC changes its rules to reject SpaceX/Starlink from getting subsidies?

Again, your spreading misinformation. The price went from $99/month to $110/month to due to Biden's price hike/inflation, it was never $11/month. Starlink is generally cheaper then the other rural ISPs. Even the $600 dish is significantly cheaper then the alternatives, who frequently charged many thousands of dollars for installation of additional lines to rural customers, such as Spectrum, Comcast, AT&T, etc.

I was not familiar with the details on Starlink so I will correct my statement... I misunderstood the $11 dollar increase as $11 to $110. Maybe the FCC is expecting too much considering the limitations of satellite internet, but I doubt Starlink is going anywhere considering their plans to launch even more of their space junk into low orbit to improve/expand service. Regardless, there is nothing pointing to your allegation of political tit-for-tat when the FCC rejected the long-form applications of LTD Broadband and Starlink. From the FCC directly: https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-rejects-ltd-broadband-starlink-bids-broadband-subsidies

Per Disney's disclosure, they paid $780M in state and local taxes for FY2021. I would imagine that whatever permitting fees they are not paying directly to the county, they absorb the overhead costs by taxing themselves in order to pay for services. Other than tax advantages on bonds due to self-governance, unless I'm missing something, why would they need to pay additional fees/taxes for services already being handled in house? Not paying taxes on parking lots... please point me to your source as I have not seen anything relating to that.

While you're salivating over permitting fees, RCID could transfer nearly $1B of debt onto residents of Orange and Osceola counties. Desantis's bill does not include any details and he simply states Disney will pay its debt and fair share... yeah that's reassuring. Meanwhile the fiscal impact statement states, "The bill will have an indeterminate fiscal impact on those local general purpose governments that will assume the assets and indebtedness of an independent special district dissolved by the bill."

I think I'll listen to my tax collector (vs some joe shmoe) when he says it could result in 20-25% increase in property taxes because that money has to come from somewhere: https://www.wftv.com/news/local/end-reedy-creek-disney-wont-pay-more-taxes-you-will/3TK6ASNJT5EXHICW3DQ3ZHEZYA/ . The verbiage of the 1967 law is very clear about who pays the bond debt: https://www.cnn.com/2022/04/27/us/reedy-creek-disney-florida/index.html.

I'm not against Disney paying taxes - I'm against our Governor's reckless behavior. As the article states, Desantis's knee-jerk reaction will also make businesses think twice about moving jobs to Florida, knowing the state could change the rules overnight if an executive has a different opinion than a politician.

Edited November 25, 2022 by nite owℓ

[aent]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:03 PM, nite owℓ said:

Regardless, there is nothing pointing to your allegation of political tit-for-tat when the FCC rejected the long-form applications of LTD Broadband and Starlink.

Again, the previous FCC administration under Trump said Starlink would meet the requirements no problem. So you believe the FCC under Biden's leadership when they, without sources, say Starlink can't provide the internet they are already providing, but don't believe the previous FCC? What about Tesla, and them working hard to make sure they don't qualify for the EV tax credits, and not inviting Tesla to any of the EV vehicle summits as part of their "green energy push"? The Biden administration has repeatedly and vocally been retaliating against Elon Musk's companies.

 

On 11/25/2022 at 1:03 PM, nite owℓ said:

. I would imagine that whatever permitting fees they are not paying directly to the county, they absorb the overhead costs by taxing themselves in order to pay for services. Other than tax advantages on bonds due to self-governance, unless I'm missing something, why would they need to pay additional fees/taxes for services already being handled in house? Not paying taxes on parking lots... please point me to your source as I have not seen anything relating to that.

I sure would love the ability to tax myeslf and choose what my money is spent on! The road leading to my community badly needs to be repaved, and I'm sure everyone in my community would be thrilled to not pay their property taxes and instead pay just for our road to be repaved. But thats now how the system works, well, for anyone but Disney. You can look at the property appraiser to see all of the assets owned by RCID, including parking lots, power plants, etc.... typically all of those things would be taxable, if they were not owned by RCID. If ownership of them went to Orange County, they could set the fees and the county could make a ton of money off of these assets, as is typically done.

 

On 11/25/2022 at 1:03 PM, nite owℓ said:

I think I'll listen to my tax collector (vs some joe shmoe) when he says it could result in 20-25% increase in property taxes because that money has to come from somewhere:

I'm sorry, I didn't realize that our governor and those who wrote the law, who have all denied the false claims the tax collector said, were all Joe Shmoes....

 

On 11/25/2022 at 1:03 PM, nite owℓ said:

Desantis's knee-jerk reaction will also make businesses think twice about moving jobs to Florida, knowing the state could change the rules overnight if an executive has a different opinion than a politician.

All states do that all the time. The biggest offenders of this are California by far, with New York being a close second.

[jack]

On 11/26/2022 at 4:26 PM, aent said:

I sure would love the ability to tax myeslf and choose what my money is spent on! The road leading to my community badly needs to be repaved, and I'm sure everyone in my community would be thrilled to not pay their property taxes and instead pay just for our road to be repaved. But thats now how the system works, well, for anyone but Disney. You can look at the property appraiser to see all of the assets owned by RCID, including parking lots, power plants, etc.... typically all of those things would be taxable, if they were not owned by RCID. If ownership of them went to Orange County, they could set the fees and the county could make a ton of money off of these assets, as is typically done.

The assets you listed are typically owned by a government entity. Power plants (OUC), parking lots and garages (garages downtown). If they were transferred to the County, they would still have to pay the debt service just like Orlando does for its garages downtown. Once debt service and maintenance is factored in, they are not making a ton of money. 

By that logic, CDD's should all be disbanded, etc. And residents that live in improvement districts or CRA have a similar set up. If you live in Downtown Orlando congratulations, your taxes stay in your community. 

Let me ask you and the other big government lovers on the board, if the County did take over everything, how would they maintain it? Even if the debt service was wiped t o zero. 

[spenser1058]

25 minutes ago, jack said:

The assets you listed are typically owned by a government entity. Power plants (OUC), parking lots and garages (garages downtown). If they were transferred to the County, they would still have to pay the debt service just like Orlando does for its garages downtown. Once debt service and maintenance is factored in, they are not making a ton of money. 

By that logic, CDD's should all be disbanded, etc. And residents that live in improvement districts or CRA have a similar set up. If you live in Downtown Orlando congratulations, your taxes stay in your community. 

Let me ask you and the other big government lovers on the board, if the County did take over everything, how would they maintain it? Even if the debt service was wiped t o zero. 

I love big government but I like things that work even more. For 50 years, RCID has operated pretty much flawlessly. 

The hilarious part of this is that RCID was conceived by people whose politics were right-leaning, including Walt himself.

As the Republicans used to say before they went bats***t crazy, “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it”.

In any event, this was totally off the cuff political. When it was rolled out, NO ONE on staff for DeSantis or the legislature had any idea about the nuts and bolts of how it would work, despite being queried over a several week period by journalists. This has never, ever been about responsible governance.
 

[Poe Tempkin]

On 11/25/2022 at 1:03 PM, nite owℓ said:

I'm not against Disney paying taxes - I'm against our Governor's reckless behavior. As the article states, Desantis's knee-jerk reaction will also make businesses think twice about moving jobs to Florida, knowing the state could change the rules overnight if an executive has a different opinion than a politician.

To your point, Disney has postponed moving Imagineering jobs to Lake Nona until 2026. I'm sure this had nothing to do with the impulsive, dunderhead action by DeSantis. I'm sure the final decision to bring the jobs to Florida won't be affected at all by the way RCID is handled by the Governor and his legislative allies.

But never mind the politics, this is actual economic harm being done to Florida, and for what? What do the people of Orange and Osceola counties or Florida as a whole gain from this, even if the taxes and liabilities are a wash? Who "wins" here? What's the point?

[nite owℓ]

2 hours ago, Poe Tempkin said:

To your point, Disney has postponed moving Imagineering jobs to Lake Nona until 2026. I'm sure this had nothing to do with the impulsive, dunderhead action by DeSantis. I'm sure the final decision to bring the jobs to Florida won't be affected at all by the way RCID is handled by the Governor and his legislative allies.

But never mind the politics, this is actual economic harm being done to Florida, and for what? What do the people of Orange and Osceola counties or Florida as a whole gain from this, even if the taxes and liabilities are a wash? Who "wins" here? What's the point?

I agree, but who really knows how this affects Disney's timeline (or budget) to move jobs to Lake Nona? Sure, they have a financial advantage by not having to pay taxes on bonds but does it add up to enough savings to dictate how much money Disney can allocate to other business? IDK... I haven't seen the numbers.

Either way, it should be enough to give smaller businesses pause before moving to FL because not everyone can afford to have the state of FL to renege on their own laws. Republicans claim to want less government, but they don't mind weaponizing the law.

Next special session is in December... we'll see how that plays out.

[aent]

12 hours ago, jack said:

The assets you listed are typically owned by a government entity. Power plants (OUC), parking lots and garages (garages downtown). If they were transferred to the County, they would still have to pay the debt service just like Orlando does for its garages downtown. Once debt service and maintenance is factored in, they are not making a ton of money. 

By that logic, CDD's should all be disbanded, etc. And residents that live in improvement districts or CRA have a similar set up. If you live in Downtown Orlando congratulations, your taxes stay in your community. 

Let me ask you and the other big government lovers on the board, if the County did take over everything, how would they maintain it? Even if the debt service was wiped t o zero. 

Typically, power plants and parking are money makers for most cities. Disney's parking is extremely expensive, much more then downtown parking, so it should be a huge money maker, just like the OCCC parking is. You think its going to be hard maintaining a parking lot charging between $25-50/day/space? Even with the government being extremely inefficient, that'll even be easy for them!

Although I am not a big government person, I personally think they should auction off RCID's assets to the highest bidders to pay for the bonds... Disney clearly is going to be willing to pay a lot of money for it so that land has got to go for a crapload of money. They wouldn't want Universal or other hotels buying up property in the middle of their resort!

Realistically, I just think things should be fair: Universal pays taxes on their parking lots and garages, SeaWorld pays taxes on their parking lots, Fun Spot pays taxes on their parking lot... why should Disney not pay taxes on theirs?

Fun Spot pays $122,000/year in property taxes just on their north overflow parking lot. Disney pays $0 on all of their lots. Fun Spot has to finance it using taxable instruments, Disney gets tax free financing. How is this fair in any way?

 

[codypet]

10 hours ago, aent said:

Typically, power plants and parking are money makers for most cities. Disney's parking is extremely expensive, much more then downtown parking, so it should be a huge money maker, just like the OCCC parking is. You think its going to be hard maintaining a parking lot charging between $25-50/day/space? Even with the government being extremely inefficient, that'll even be easy for them!

Although I am not a big government person, I personally think they should auction off RCID's assets to the highest bidders to pay for the bonds... Disney clearly is going to be willing to pay a lot of money for it so that land has got to go for a crapload of money. They wouldn't want Universal or other hotels buying up property in the middle of their resort!

Realistically, I just think things should be fair: Universal pays taxes on their parking lots and garages, SeaWorld pays taxes on their parking lots, Fun Spot pays taxes on their parking lot... why should Disney not pay taxes on theirs?

Fun Spot pays $122,000/year in property taxes just on their north overflow parking lot. Disney pays $0 on all of their lots. Fun Spot has to finance it using taxable instruments, Disney gets tax free financing. How is this fair in any way?

 

Is it though?  Or is Disney's parking cost offsetting the parking and transportation elsewhere that doesn't get funding?  Yea the surface lots are cheap and long been paid for, but then you have to pay for maintenance and upkeep of the little shuttle trams to the TTC.  And then once at the TTC who is paying for the maintenance or operation on those massive boats to take you across Bay Lake or maintenance and operation of that monorail system?  From an engineering standpoint I know that's a pain to keep up.  Then related to parking facilities, the Disney Springs Garages were a small fortune to build.  That's not even beginning to talk about the cost to operate that massive bus fleet.

As someone who had a lot of coworkers work on the Buena Vista Dr BRT project, I could tell you RCID was able to operate at an efficiency that Osceola County and definitely Orange County are unable to match.  OC doesn't have the resources or the manpower to take over the infrastructure needs of Disney.  I feel like if RCID was rolled into the two counties, I could see the permitting as well as the public works departments of both counties grind to a halt.  Look how quickly RCID improves their roadway network vs how long it take OC to widen any road out in the New Independence area.  The only other governmental agency that I think comes anywhere near close is CFX.

What I suspect will happen is a subdistrict within the county will emerge and will magically be very similar to RCID.

Edited November 29, 2022 by codypet

[aent]

1 hour ago, codypet said:

Is it though?  Or is Disney's parking cost offsetting the parking and transportation elsewhere that doesn't get funding?  Yea the surface lots are cheap and long been paid for, but then you have to pay for maintenance and upkeep of the little shuttle trams to the TTC.  And then once at the TTC who is paying for the maintenance or operation on those massive boats to take you across Bay Lake or maintenance and operation of that monorail system?  From an engineering standpoint I know that's a pain to keep up.  Then related to parking facilities, the Disney Springs Garages were a small fortune to build.  That's not even beginning to talk about the cost to operate that massive bus fleet.

As someone who had a lot of coworkers work on the Buena Vista Dr BRT project, I could tell you RCID was able to operate at an efficiency that Osceola County and definitely Orange County are unable to match.  OC doesn't have the resources or the manpower to take over the infrastructure needs of Disney.  I feel like if RCID was rolled into the two counties, I could see the permitting as well as the public works departments of both counties grind to a halt.  Look how quickly RCID improves their roadway network vs how long it take OC to widen any road out in the New Independence area.  The only other governmental agency that I think comes anywhere near close is CFX.

What I suspect will happen is a subdistrict within the county will emerge and will magically be very similar to RCID.

Again, they aren't paying taxes on it, while everyone else has to. I don't realistically think Orange and Osceola County should really be running Disney's transportation network or anything, and its assets should be sold to Disney proper, and taxed.  Universal pays taxes on their parking lots and garages, SeaWorld pays taxes on their parking lots, Fun Spot pays taxes on their parking lot... why should Disney not pay taxes on theirs?

Same on the buses. Universal operates their own bus network, they have to pay all sorts of taxes on the infrastructure for that service. They operate a water taxi as well. Typically private infrastructure that is designed to serve only one entity (in this case, Disney) is required to pay its own way, cover its own maintenance, and then pay property taxes on top of that. Hell, even Brightline is having to lease the ROW at the airport and all along the CFX tracks and pay for it every single year? Its completely unheard of the deal Disney has, literally no one else gets anything like it.

Your argument that the countys public works and permitting office wouldn't be able to handle it make no sense: Universal right now likely has way more permits and public works projects active then Disney, considering they're building a whole new theme park and campus. And in the long term, Universal's plan for the new campus is to extend their Orlando footprint to 4 theme parks and 2 water parks, exactly like Disney has (and no one has even rumored Disney expanding with a new park in Orlando)

My question is really simple: Why is the way that Universal and SeaWorld operate so unacceptable for Disney? Why is Disney entitled to not pay property tax on all their properties that are used exclusively for them when all of their competition, and literally everyone else in Orlando has to? I pay taxes on the parking spaces I own at the business properties I own. I also have to pay maintenance for the lots entirely, outside of paying my taxes. I'm currently getting bids to restripe my parking lot as the lines have faded. Why should I as a small business not feel cheated by whats going on? Try really hard not to use DeSantis in your answer because its completely irrelevant to the question at hand.

Edited November 29, 2022 by aent

[codypet]

1 hour ago, aent said:

Again, they aren't paying taxes on it, while everyone else has to. I don't realistically think Orange and Osceola County should really be running Disney's transportation network or anything, and its assets should be sold to Disney proper, and taxed.  Universal pays taxes on their parking lots and garages, SeaWorld pays taxes on their parking lots, Fun Spot pays taxes on their parking lot... why should Disney not pay taxes on theirs?

Same on the buses. Universal operates their own bus network, they have to pay all sorts of taxes on the infrastructure for that service. They operate a water taxi as well. Typically private infrastructure that is designed to serve only one entity (in this case, Disney) is required to pay its own way, cover its own maintenance, and then pay property taxes on top of that. Hell, even Brightline is having to lease the ROW at the airport and all along the CFX tracks and pay for it every single year? Its completely unheard of the deal Disney has, literally no one else gets anything like it.

Your argument that the countys public works and permitting office wouldn't be able to handle it make no sense: Universal right now likely has way more permits and public works projects active then Disney, considering they're building a whole new theme park and campus. And in the long term, Universal's plan for the new campus is to extend their Orlando footprint to 4 theme parks and 2 water parks, exactly like Disney has (and no one has even rumored Disney expanding with a new park in Orlando)

My question is really simple: Why is the way that Universal and SeaWorld operate so unacceptable for Disney? Why is Disney entitled to not pay property tax on all their properties that are used exclusively for them when all of their competition, and literally everyone else in Orlando has to? I pay taxes on the parking spaces I own at the business properties I own. I also have to pay maintenance for the lots entirely, outside of paying my taxes. I'm currently getting bids to restripe my parking lot as the lines have faded. Why should I as a small business not feel cheated by whats going on? Try really hard not to use DeSantis in your answer because its completely irrelevant to the question at hand.

I don't have a fight one way or another about what Disney does with RCID.  I just know how  OC handles their public works dept and things are slow as molasses.  I even worked for the OC permitting dept for a little bit, and I know how that operates.  I didn't say anything about DeSantis.  

I cannot get a contractor to do work on my HOUSE because they don't want to deal with the permitting dept with the City and my dad the same with his house and the County.  You think any of that gets better once Disney gets rolled into it?  

I understand your point about the taxes, I do.  RCID is the one managing that infrastructure.  They should be paying into RCID to support it (and IMO any supporting infrastructure that borders the property).  My argument still stands that it will grind things to a halt.  You're welcome to disagree.  

[jack]

22 hours ago, aent said:

Typically, power plants and parking are money makers for most cities. Disney's parking is extremely expensive, much more then downtown parking, so it should be a huge money maker, just like the OCCC parking is. You think its going to be hard maintaining a parking lot charging between $25-50/day/space? Even with the government being extremely inefficient, that'll even be easy for them!

Although I am not a big government person, I personally think they should auction off RCID's assets to the highest bidders to pay for the bonds... Disney clearly is going to be willing to pay a lot of money for it so that land has got to go for a crapload of money. They wouldn't want Universal or other hotels buying up property in the middle of their resort!

Realistically, I just think things should be fair: Universal pays taxes on their parking lots and garages, SeaWorld pays taxes on their parking lots, Fun Spot pays taxes on their parking lot... why should Disney not pay taxes on theirs?

Fun Spot pays $122,000/year in property taxes just on their north overflow parking lot. Disney pays $0 on all of their lots. Fun Spot has to finance it using taxable instruments, Disney gets tax free financing. How is this fair in any way?

 

Aren't the parking lots and garages owned by Reedy Creek free? If you pay to park, it is owned by Disney and it is taxed. Heavily. 

Reedy Creek's millage rate is over 13 mil. No district, lower taxes for Disney. Yes, they are kind of paying themselves but that is every special district.

Okay, so the assets get auctioned off. Who is the buyer for the roads? The fire department? Stormwater facilities? Bridges? 

 

[jack]

12 hours ago, aent said:

Your argument that the countys public works and permitting office wouldn't be able to handle it make no sense: Universal right now likely has way more permits and public works projects active then Disney, considering they're building a whole new theme park and campus. And in the long term, Universal's plan for the new campus is to extend their Orlando footprint to 4 theme parks and 2 water parks, exactly like Disney has (and no one has even rumored Disney expanding with a new park in Orlando)

The permitting issue is real. Universal pales in comparison to Disney. Epic is very large facility but does not compare to what Disney permits every year through all of its hotels, theme parks and general infrastructure. The county would go hire permit techs, inspectors etc. to handle the additional load but I know they would rather not. Disney also has the option of hiring private providers to a portion of their permitting. 

[spenser1058]

Florida mulls U-turn on move to strip Disney theme-parks of self-governing status
https://apple.news/AIkzfHBrVRSini4u0c1vhDA

From Reuters

The political theater appears to be over…

[aent]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Florida mulls U-turn on move to strip Disney theme-parks of self-governing status
https://apple.news/AIkzfHBrVRSini4u0c1vhDA

From Reuters

The political theater appears to be over…

The first sentence and headline make it sound like they're going to repeal the law, but there is no information about why they think that... the rest of the article makes it seem like they're staying the course, Disney will be losing rights that it was the only corporation in the state to have, and paying more taxes, just like DeSantis said. The new RCID will follow current law.