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monsoon

The fall of the American Democracy

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This was written in 1778 after the 13 Colonies formed the United states.

"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government."

"A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury."

"From that moment on, the majority always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."

"The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years."

"During those 200 years, those nations always progressed through the following sequence:

  1. from bondage to spiritual faith;

  2. from spiritual faith to great courage;

  3. from courage to liberty;

  4. from liberty to abundance;

  5. from abundance to complacency;

  6. from complacency to apathy;

  7. from apathy to dependence;

  8. from dependence back into bondage."

Where do you think we are?

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IMO, we hit

  • stage 4 in 1950,

  • stage 5 in 1975 (I would have placed this earlier but there were huge efforts by the people in those days to fight the Vietnam war, corporate control, civil rights, and the environmental movement)

  • stage 6 in 1984

  • we are now in the beginnings of stage 7

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I think we are in multiple stage but the thing that sticks out the most to me is dependency. Many of our citizens and immigrants have become welfare dependent and live their lives courtesy of the government.

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I think we are in multiple stage but the thing that sticks out the most to me is dependency. Many of our citizens and immigrants have become welfare dependent and live their lives courtesy of the government.

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End of 6, probably within a few years starting 7

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You guys care to explain why you think that particular stage is applicable? Kinda leaves everyone hanging just by saying a number without any reference.

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Wow, I must be way off. I think we are about 1.

That is, 1 on our way past 8.

I think we have surpassed the apathy bit - that was 10 years ago. Our economy has now become dependent upon the government controlling public interests - lobbying is vital to big business. Political power often times comes from, and lies with, business interests because those who have less interest in power and profit have let that power slip away. Furthermore, our economy is driven now by the banking industry and the stock markets, not by consumers. I think that dependence mentioned above stems from the economy no longer being driven by true capitalism, but a kind of pseudo-influenced capitalism.

As we are progressing down this path, we are now entering the bondage phase again. Government is no longer of the people by the people for the people, but rather a restriction on the people, for the interests of the good of the government, not the people. Interests in national security, the betterment of the "economy", and a re-focus on personal views instead of a common good have to the abandonment of the freedom and principals hat we had originally established. I believe that we are now headed to the "spiritual faith" component, as we made the self the primary value, instead of the group. We put more value on enforcing our own personal beliefs than in enabling others to hold their own beliefs.

The good and the bad is that I don't think this is a very good indication of how cultural development goes. The good is that I think we can break the chain by refocusing our attention on the basic principals that we set forth int he constitution. We need to focus more on full freedom, and on true capitalism, and not on the majority interest. The bad is that it also means we may never end up reaching the next step - we can get locked in a vicious cycle that goes back and forth between the loss of freedom and the detriment of the public.

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^I somewhat agree with that. IMO we are now well within stage 8, and on the verge of sinking deeper. The "apathy" stage played out through the Clinton years, when most American citizens were more or less oblivious to anything political, unless sex was involved. 9/11 shocked America into the "dependence" stage, as the need to feel safe and protected dominated all other concerns for the next several years. The Bush administration's complete disregard for the constitution and the rule of law, along with the increasing dominance of the economy by a handful of megacorporations, has brought us into "bondage." At this stage ordinary Americans have no say over the destiny of their nation, and every governmental action benefits the elite at the expense of the masses.

The current desire for change from all quarters of the political spectrum speaks to the people's readiness to move from "bondage" back to "spiritual faith." Perhaps this is why it is so popular in modern politics to cite the Founding Fathers and their struggles against tyranny. I believe it is completely up to the next administration whether we sink deeper into bondage or begin the cycle anew (which I don't think has ever happened without violent revolution).

Monsoon, do you happen to know who the author of this was?

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More than just this, I see our biggest problem is people WANT (depend) a lot from our government but don't want to have to pay for it.

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......

Monsoon, do you happen to know who the author of this was?

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Government is no longer of the people by the people for the people, but rather a restriction on the people, for the interests of the good of the government, not the people.

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Do you really think those services you mentioned need to cost $2.7 trillion a year on the Federal level, and however many hundreds of billions government spends on the state and local levels?

Why do you think more money and more programs will help anything?

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^Kind of like Cobb County, GA. A place whose population claims to loathe big government and votes solidly Republican, but gets somewhere in the range of $4.5 billion per year in Federal funding.

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