First Horizon Park - Home of the Nashville Sounds

[fieldmarshaldj]

I would love to see a Neiman Marcus or Bloomingdales integrated into the new baseball stadium development.

 

The 'Green Acres' theme song just popped into my head.

[FromParkAveToTN]

I love high fashion.

 

I guess you're wondering why I am on this forum. Well, my back ground is civil engineering and architecture. After I finished my B.S. in Civil Engineering, I went to Architecture school and got a second B.S. instead of going to grad school. I don't work in either field. I'm in the music industry, which is why I'm in Nashville. At any rate, I enjoy reading about the latest projects.

[nashvillwill]

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote'data-author="FromParkAveToTN" data-cid="1248505" data-time="1355845419"><p>

I love high fashion.<br />

<br />

I guess you're wondering why I am on this forum. Well, my back ground is civil engineering and architecture. After I finished my B.S. in Civil Engineering, I went to Architecture school and got a second B.S. instead of going to grad school. I don't work in either field. I'm in the music industry, which is why I'm in Nashville. At any rate, I enjoy reading about the latest projects.</p></blockquote>

That's fine that you like high fashion. I would like to see a few more options in Nashville, but just realize that it will be a slow process and will never have the standards of Manhattan. Besides, i think i can venture to say that most Nashvillians (and most people everywhere) are a little more budget consious. I live in San Francisco and have access to all of that, but I do my shopping at the Gap and IKEA. I just prefer to spend my money on other things. But in all honesty, I have been eyeballing a Bvlgari watch for about two years now. But I will probably keep eyeballing it for eternity. I've got other things on my plate.

I do have to ask. Do you really think a ballpark development would be the right fit for a Neiman-Marcus/Bloomingdales?

Edited December 18, 2012 by nashvillwill

[dmillsphoto]

Look, I am all for getting some high end retailers, but every area of town is not going to support one. Right now, there are only 3 really. And one of them doesn't have a ton of similar retail to prove whether it would work (Midtown). And a ballpark (that for all intents and purposes is dead, IMHO) is certainly not going to be the place as it would be a miserable flop given the target audience of minor league baseball.

[Beat02]

Edit: Never mind. 

Edited December 18, 2012 by Beat02

[Beat02]

I don't mean to rekindle the "Nashville's not getting an MLB team" discussion, but I found something interesting by random chance online.

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/on-numbers/scott-thomas/2011/08/denver-is-most-overextended-market.html

 

 

It's a study that analyzes a metro's ability to support professional sports teams economically based on the total combined income of the residents. Of course, I think there are some flaws in this, but it's an interesting study nonetheless.

 

In a nutshell:

 

 

Nashville's total personal income (TPI) was $63.8 billion in 2010. According to the study, we really need to have a TPI of $74.3 billion to adequately support our current teams (a deficit of $10.5 billion). So we're overextended as it is.

 

Nashville is not alone in being overextended, and not even close to being the worst. In fact, there are currently 20 markets listed as such, with Nashville ranking as the 16th most overextended.

 

The others are as follows:

 

1 - Denver (5 teams) - $87.3 billion deficit

2 - Cleveland (3 teams) - $71.4 billion

3 - Pittsburgh (3 teams) - $56.7 billion

4 - Tampa (3 teams) - $54.1 billion

5 - Kansas City (3 teams) - $52.3 billion

6 - Milwaukee (2 teams) - $51.8 billion

7 - St. Louis (3 teams) - $42.3 billion

8 - Phoenix (4 teams) - $41.1 billion

9 - Minneapolis-St. Paul (4 teams) - $39.4 billion

10 - Cincinnati (2 teams) - $37.5 billion

11 - Buffalo (2 teams) - $30.9 billion

12 - Green Bay (1 team) - $25.2 billion

13 - Detroit (4 teams) - $23.3 billion

14 - New Orleans (2 teams) - $18.4 billion

15 - San Francisco-Oakland (5 teams) - $12.5 billion

16 - Nashville (2 teams) - $10.5 billion

17 - Winnipeg (1 team) - $8.8 billion

18 - Salt Lake City (2 teams) - $5.9 billion

19 - Charlotte (2 teams) - $1.7 billion

20 - Indianapolis (2 teams) - $1.7 billion

 

According to this, Nashville would need to have a TPI of $159.7 billion, which is close to that of Minneapolis-St. Paul. So, in other words, we need to double in size before we're ready to add MLB. Double. That's a long, long way off. 

 

 

My major problem with the methodology is that it doesn't factor in corporate presence and ownership (millionaires and billionaires that may or may not live in the city).

 

 

 

(For curious reference, elsewhere in Tennessee, Memphis has a TPI of $50.6 billion, Knoxville $24.6 billion, and Chattanooga $18.5 billion -- Memphis would be capable of supporting a second pro team -- MLS only -- and Knoxville and Chattanooga could each support an MLS team themselves. Nashville is approximately $26 billion short of being able to support it's 3rd pro team -- MLS again -- because of the deficit)

 

 

 

 

 

How this relates to the Sounds, though. AAA baseball wasn't a consideration when figuring in a market's ability to support pro teams. And though it is small, it still requires some income to support it. With Nashville currently having a deficit in this category, it makes me wonder how high of a priority investing any public funds should be in building a new ballpark. Honestly, I really don't want to lose the Sounds...but perhaps we should put civic investment on hold until we are under better financial footing. It shouldn't be long before we're large enough to support our two current teams along with AAA baseball.

Interesting!

Edited December 18, 2012 by Beat02

[dmillsphoto]

Going to bump this up so we don't litter Bits and Pieces w/ the Sulpher Dell proposal...

[dmillsphoto]

Overhead view (proposed)

 

[CenterHill]

Overhead view (proposed)

 

 

A stadium situated that way would give fans a great view of the downtown skyline.   I also like the way this design incorporates the existing greenway.  I note parcel E at the top right sits over the historic Geist & Sons building on Jefferson St.    I'd like to see those structures preserved and incorporated into whatever plan emerges.   But all in all, I like the Sulpher Dell location. 

[nashvillwill]

FWIW, that ballpark is facing the wrong direction. The ballpark in that configuration would be a pretty horrid design for the batter. He would always be looking into the sun. This would be VERY unusual for a ballpark.

I'm not saying that its never been done, but traditionally the line from home plate to second base faces east-northeast.

Edit; for reference, here is a diagram of all MLB parks; http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-orientation.html

Note, a few of these have a roof, so the sun doesn't matter. But the sounds stadium in the orientation would face about 75 degrees south, which is greater than any MLB park.

Edited August 22, 2013 by nashvillwill

[CenterHill]

FWIW, that ballpark is facing the wrong direction. The ballpark in that configuration would be a pretty horrid design for the batter. He would always be looking into the sun. This would be VERY unusual for a ballpark.

I'm not saying that its never been done, but traditionally the line from home plate to second base faces east-northeast.

 

Yeah, I was thinking the same thing.   Actually, I was thinking that orientation would be hell on the 3B, SS and left fielder as most games will be played late afternoon/evening during the summer months with the sun setting behind the first base side.    The final plan may need some fine tuning.   Not to get ahead of ourselves.   That was the Populous proposal from 2011.  

[MidTenn1]

A good model for a major league ballpark would be Target Field in Minneapolis, home of the Twins. It is in a very tight site and very efficiently designed to accommodate fan needs. The ball park is roughly 650' by 650'. It would possibly fit on the Sulpher Dell site approximately like this...

 

 

The yellow highlighted part could be built to accommodate the minor league park. The red highlighted section could be built later if a major league franchise is available (the Oakland A's have also been mentioned as a possibility).

 

 

 

[bigeasy]

FWIW, that ballpark is facing the wrong direction. The ballpark in that configuration would be a pretty horrid design for the batter. He would always be looking into the sun. This would be VERY unusual for a ballpark.

I'm not saying that its never been done, but traditionally the line from home plate to second base faces east-northeast.

Edit; for reference, here is a diagram of all MLB parks; http://www.flipflopflyin.com/flipflopflyball/info-orientation.html

Note, a few of these have a roof, so the sun doesn't matter. But the sounds stadium in the orientation would face about 75 degrees south, which is greater than any MLB park.

Doesn't their current stadium face in the same direction as the render? I have not been to a game since I was a kid, but is it an issue now?

[UTgrad09]

A good model for a major league ballpark would be Target Field in Minneapolis, home of the Twins. It is in a very tight site and very efficiently designed to accommodate fan needs. The ball park is roughly 650' by 650'. It would possibly fit on the Sulpher Dell site approximately like this...

 

 

The yellow highlighted part could be built to accommodate the minor league park. The red highlighted section could be built later if a major league franchise is available (the Oakland A's have also been mentioned as a possibility).

 

I like the example and orientation. That's almost exactly how I imagined it, except Jackson St stays and the stadium is built right up to the greenway. The other big improvement with this orientation is land use. I thought the rendering above with the stadium in the middle of the block made a terrible use of space. With the SE orientation, and the building backed up to the street (more of an urban style ballpark...) it opens up a half block of space in left field to put to good use (on-site restaurant/hotel, maybe some office or residential, too).

On another note, even though it is a AA stadium, Birmingham recently completed their new ballpark, and I think it is a fine example of how an urban park should look.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=1620010

Nice blend of classic and modern.

Here's how the site looks set to the grid:

https://maps.google.com/?ll=33.507353,-86.809791&spn=0.005072,0.010568&t=h&z=17

Edited August 23, 2013 by UTgrad09

[bigeasy]

Still dreaming

 

Edited August 23, 2013 by bigeasy

[MLBrumby]

Wow!  A blast from the past!  

I remember that rendering, and if to scale... it shows that that particular property appears to be made for a ballpark... fits perfectly there. 

[bigeasy]

I am not sure if it is a good grade for scale. Using the same scale on google maps, and the Target Field as a reference, then the Thermal Plant could not support a stadium of that size. The only way it would fit would be if about 1/3+ of the seats behind homeplate were removed.  That being said, if you put Coca-Cola Field (the largest Minor League stadium I think) on the property it fits almost perfectly

Edited August 23, 2013 by bigeasy

[UTgrad09]

I am not sure if it is a good grade for scale. Using the same scale on google maps, and the Target Field as a reference, then the Thermal Plant could not support a stadium of that size. The only way it would fit would be if about 1/3+ of the seats behind homeplate were removed.

MLB stadiums come in all shapes and sizes. That's one of the most unique things about them. The thermal site is certainly large enough, though. It wouldn't have as much room for seats in the dead center of the outfield...but left field could support plenty, and right field could have a decent set of bleachers (or just a grassy hill, as some minor league parks have).

[bhibbs]

that grassy hill/knoll that the stadium in Birmingham has is very cool!
I would choose those tickets 10 times out of 10.

[MLBrumby]

Embrey Development has a pending contract on part of the proposed ballpark site for an apartment development.  Dean wants to swap some land with them.  From the Tennessean...  http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130823/NEWS0202/308230156/-30-million-apartment-development-eyed-Sulphur-Dell-site

Edited August 24, 2013 by MLBrumby

[UTgrad09]

Embrey Development has a pending contract on part of the proposed ballpark site for an apartment development.  Dean wants to swap some land with them.  From the Tennessean...  http://www.tennessean.com/article/20130823/NEWS0202/308230156/-30-million-apartment-development-eyed-Sulphur-Dell-site

 

If I were them, I would do the land swap. They get more land in return, and while they might have to start over, their development becomes much more lucrative with a ballpark there. They could fit more units in on the swap site.

[nashvillwill]

This could be embarrassing for the administration. It seems like they didn't do their homework.

[UTgrad09]

This could be embarrassing for the administration. It seems like they didn't do their homework.

 

No, I think they know exactly what they are doing. The announcement puts pressure on both parties -- the private entity and the state -- to go through with the deal. Because if they don't, they'll be 'responsible' for killing the deal.

Edited August 24, 2013 by UTgrad09

[volsfanwill]

wow, I go to the beach for a week and I missed a lot. 

I still think we could land an MLB team in the near future, so building this thing for expansion should be a priority.  one reason I think we can get one is the same way we got or two current teams.  Nashville showed up as a threat at first and then it happened.  Owner~"build me a new stadium/arena/park or ill move"  snobby city  council that doesnt believe them~"no, your team has history here you wont move, where would you move to anyway?"  owner~"uhhhh, I dont know maybe..........Nashville,yes thats it, Ill move to Nashville"!   next thing you know we land a NHL team and a NFL team back to back.  

I know the preds were an expansion, but the point is still valid. 

 

as for the site, I love the site because of its baseball history.  but I always kinda envisioned it on the metals recycling site on the east bank.  but my idea for that is a little pre-EPA.   dont worry about hazmat clean up, just pave over it and build a stadium. no matter where it is though, no empty surface lots surrounding it.  make it urban, and include mixed use developments all around, maybe a parking garage or two, (east of the river, they could build around it and maybe use titans parking, Bud can't live forever)

[MidTenn1]

Slightly off topic, but here is a list of teams that have taken a long, serious look at Nashville for relocation over the years...

 

Green Bay Packers (During WWII)

Atlanta Falcons (Leverage for a new stadium, Nashville proposed a domed stadium near the airport)

San Antonio Spurs (Municipal Auditorium was too small) 

Chicago White Sox (Owners had local ties, used Nashville for new stadium leverage)

Hartford Whalers (Moved to Raleigh)

New Jersey Devils (done deal until they won the Stanley Cup and NJ made concessions to keep them)

New Jersey Nets (Same owner as the Devils; a two for one deal)

Minnesota Timberwolves (Considered New Orleans also, but got new arena)

Montreal Expos (Nashville not interested at the time; now they are the Washington Nationals)

Houston Oilers (Tennessee Titans)

NHL Expansion Team (Nashville Predators)

 

Nashville also applied for a baseball expansion team in the 80's, but it was a ridiculous proposal and MLB never took our offer seriously)