Wither Federal Hill?

[Miesian Corners]

Just returned from a quick visit to PVD. I had forgotten just how great a city it is. Stayed at the Hilton and took a walk over I-95 to check out Federal Hill (I also ate a great lunch at Bob and Timmy's and had about the best slice of cake ever at Pastiche). It is, indeed, a shame what has happened, but it could be worse, you could be Charlotte (my home) where everything has been torn down to become a surface lot. Don't let it go any further!

[Bonnie Nickerson]

it's supposed to make the city government look like they care what the people think. after all, wasn't providence the first major city to do something like that to "involve" the residents in creating the new comprehensive plan?

[Cotuit]

Thank you for posting Bonnie and thanks for all the hard work you and everyone in Planning are doing on this process.

It's just that the frustration level is getting high, it is tough to watch the current zoning be abused knowing that there is a document sitting on a shelf somewhere that could block some of the bad sh!t from happening.

[runawayjim]

Thank you for posting Bonnie and thanks for all the hard work you and everyone in Planning are doing on this process.

It's just that the frustration level is getting high, it is tough to watch the current zoning be abused knowing that there is a document sitting on a shelf somewhere that could block some of the bad sh!t from happening.

[jencoleslaw]

There are zoning ordinances that could probably be passed with little difficulty right now. Like the one that gives CPC jurisdiction over projects that may have a small footprint, but are actually very large buildings because they have height, and ordinances about demolition of housing etc. But, for "whatever reason" those potential new ordinances, or changes to current ordinances are not being put to the council for a vote. That's not the fault of the planning rank and file though.

[TheAnk]

But it seems the people who are taking part in the charrette process are only taking part because they don't trust 'the City.' Everyone else either doesn't care or doesn't know this process is happening. I'm not really understanding who this process is appeasing.

[FjmArch]

and if they inconvenience those business owners... what will the owners do (aside from the possibility of the whole cement shoes thing)? they clearly wouldn't want to leave atwells because it's the biggest destination in the city and the most successful tourist area. the businesses are not losing customers because they have no parking spaces. there is no danger of the businesses on atwells closing up because of the economy, unless their business already sucks (i think it's funny that there's all these restaurants that give you a ton of food and a diet program place down the street).

anyway, i think it's ridiculous that any of those restaurants feel they need parking. maybe they should work a deal with the places that own the lots north of atwells and east of dean. sure, it's a longer walk for the valets, but the lots are already there and unused when the restaurants are at their busiest. as it stands, the valets are simply parking cars on the street first and then they park the cars in the private lots that the general public aren't allowed to use for fear of towing.

and the whole sidewalk dining thing has gotten out of control. i want to know what the city will do if someone in a wheelchair wants to go for a stroll down atwells on a friday or saturday evening. there's certainly not enough room on the sidewalk for a wheelchair to get by the tables, the valet signs, and the tree wells (with the nice fences surrounding them). combine all that with the fact that the customers are rude and don't give a crap that people want to actually walk down the sidewalk and not drive up and have their cars valeted, it makes for a really crappy experience for people who walk. i usually end up walking in the street for a good 3 or 4 blocks on atwells (the sienna-242-opa-nara block is the worst offender).

[FjmArch]

it's supposed to make the city government look like they care what the people think. after all, wasn't providence the first major city to do something like that to "involve" the residents in creating the new comprehensive plan?

[basachs]

There has always been public input and comment on the implementation / rewrite of the Comprehensive Plan for just about any city. It is only when there is a crisis (rampant demolition of historic structures, building a concrete plant in a legal industrial zone that nobody bothered to pay attention to until construction started, ) that people start to pay attention. While Providence has been one of the first to put the tag of Charrette onto the process it still does little good when the revised comprehensive plan, zoning ordinances... have little teeth when it comes to those that choose to disregard the law. The problem is that on Fed Hill the restaurant's have priority seating for the pols and feed them for $0, so they overlook the indescretions at the door and next door where the valet parks their cars with the shiny low numbered State Rep / Senate plates. I say we let them have Federal Hill (It is PVD's Bald Hill Road already) and concentrate on not letting this happen to the rest of the city.

[FjmArch]

You realize that Federal Hill is a huge neighborhood and is not just Atwells Ave right?

[runawayjim]

Yes I do know that, Sorry I am not as perfect as others. I was on a rant and typed "Let them have Federal Hill" I meant Atwell's Ave."

[basachs]

Yes I do know that, Sorry I am not as perfect as others. I was on a rant and typed "Let them have Federal Hill" I meant Atwell's Ave."

[TheAnk]

Is this discussion serious? I can't tell.. Atwells Ave is one of the only things that bring people to Providence.. Atwells IS PVD to most people..

I love it when I'm going there, and hate it and avoid it like the plague when I'm not.. That means its an excellent commerce center..

There may be things "wrong" with Atwells, but we should be glad to have such problems. "Federal Hill" and Atwells Ave are nothing more than Cranston Ave and the West End without the rest' row. No one wants that..

Too many cars? People generally drive them on their way to the city.. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone works for or aspires to work for Kashi in the world..

Lets not get all wrapped up in preservation at the cost of actual tangible physical value... So some stupid three deck gets torn down for a surface lot.. Theres plenty of crappy 1920s multis around to fuss over that dont reside directly on Commerce Street, RI..

[runawayjim]

Is this discussion serious? I can't tell.. Atwells Ave is one of the only things that bring people to Providence.. Atwells IS PVD to most people..

I love it when I'm going there, and hate it and avoid it like the plague when I'm not.. That means its an excellent commerce center..

There may be things "wrong" with Atwells, but we should be glad to have such problems. "Federal Hill" and Atwells Ave are nothing more than Cranston Ave and the West End without the rest' row. No one wants that..

Too many cars? People generally drive them on their way to the city.. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone works for or aspires to work for Kashi in the world..

Lets not get all wrapped up in preservation at the cost of actual tangible physical value... So some stupid three deck gets torn down for a surface lot.. Theres plenty of crappy 1920s multis around to fuss over that dont reside directly on Commerce Street, RI..

[JimmyGreaves]

Surface parking is not the highest and best use of land. Think of the need for housing and small businesses that could be met if we design and develop cities for people instead of cars.

[Cotuit]

Is this discussion serious? I can't tell.. Atwells Ave is one of the only things that bring people to Providence.. Atwells IS PVD to most people..

I love it when I'm going there, and hate it and avoid it like the plague when I'm not.. That means its an excellent commerce center..

There may be things "wrong" with Atwells, but we should be glad to have such problems. "Federal Hill" and Atwells Ave are nothing more than Cranston Ave and the West End without the rest' row. No one wants that..

Too many cars? People generally drive them on their way to the city.. Contrary to popular belief, not everyone works for or aspires to work for Kashi in the world..

Lets not get all wrapped up in preservation at the cost of actual tangible physical value... So some stupid three deck gets torn down for a surface lot.. Theres plenty of crappy 1920s multis around to fuss over that dont reside directly on Commerce Street, RI..

[Liamlunchtray]

There is a CRAPLOAD of parking on the hill and most of it is empty most of the time. There are lots that I literally have never seen a car in. There is no excuse to tear down useful buildings for more surface lots.

[Garris]

And THERE IS NO F*CKING PARKING CRISIS. There is PLENTY of parking on Federal Hill now! No one is saying everyone has to ride a burro to Restaurant Row, contrary to popular belief.

[TheAnk]

I park on Federal Street 100% of the time.. Walk one block over.. Done, easy..

But here's the thing no one considers.. While a lot might not be the BEST use, it is A use.. a crappy three decker in need of a total rehab costs money.. A parking lot costs $2 a sq ft.. Yeah, that owner SHOULD build a Opa or Zooma or whatever, but sometimes thats not reality (read: like right now)..

If people are willing to pay $20 to par there so be it.. Theoretically, that IS the best use at present time.. If in its current state of disrepair those units rent is less than parking intake, thats the best use..

When things turn around and financing rules are back to favorable then you can build a Providence Oyster.. But for now, if the owner can make more $$ as a asphalt lot so be it..

The reason there are empty lots everywhere else on Federal Hill is:

A. no one wants to park in the ghetto (it IS still ghetto off of Atwells you know)

B. People want to be seen big pimpin @ valet on Fed Hill

C. no one will pay to park there

(strange reason, but people are sheep.. If a lot is empty two streets over, people will rather find a lot with SOME cars there and park.. Strength in numbers I guess.. They will also rather pay to park around other cars than alone for free.. Mind blowing stuff, for me at least.. )

And Providence kind of DOES work that way runawayjim.. You can just drive downtown and park, for the most part.. Except during water fire.. I went to XO this weekend and parked right in front.. Mind blowing coming from growing up in Boston.. Theres no parking crisis for sure.. But times change, and a parking lot can be the bets use if you cant get financing.. Thats all I'm sayin

[runawayjim]

it's not terribly ghetto a block from atwells and if the lots are being created for the valets, there's no reason to worry about ghetto or not. the lots i'm talking about are always empty at night. the restaurants should be leasing those spaces rather than creating new lots.

what bugs me the most is the fact that mediterraneo is allowed to have its blue painted sidewalk where no one is allowed to park. wtf is up with that?

[Cotuit]

I would like to know how many of these restaurants are paying the city the $2,600 per year required to obtain a reserved on street space for their valet parking zones.

[Cotuit]

If people are willing to pay $20 to par there so be it.. Theoretically, that IS the best use at present time.. If in its current state of disrepair those units rent is less than parking intake, thats the best use..

[TheAnk]

I know this concept breaks your libertarian heart, but we do not live under libertarian rule, we have laws and regulations.

And if people are so scared to park in the ghetto, then I suggest they not dine in the ghetto.

[runawayjim]

We also don't live in a socialist state.. The "communty" can say all they want, the owner has the say on what to do..

However I will concede that our current democratic-socialist state does allow for things like charette charades and eminent domain, so.. yes, you are mostly correct..

But that guy DID get to Joni Mitchell his house and make a lot, so.. We both win..

I'm not talking me, just people who come to Fed Hill.. Those are the people that travel to PVD and Fed Hill.. So lets not bite the hand that feeds, I say.. Lets just make fun of them behind their backs..

[matt]

Speaking of valets, I few weeks ago I went to DJT's on Atwells. They have their own lot in back of the building for customers. That night there was a valet. I asked him if I could park in the lot if I was going to eat at the restaurant. He said it was valet only that night.

I had to tip a guy to drive my car 30 feet. Wow.

Clever business model. I could have driven away and parked for free, but then I'd feel like a jerk walking back past the guy 'cause I was too cheap to give him $2.