Redevelopment along 28th Street

[nurfle!]

I'm surprised no one's posted this yet. Here's an absolutely wonderful (and surprising too! </snark>) addition to Wyoming's woes: Roger's Plaza is now going down what seems to be a very short one-way street to foreclosure as it was found to be part of a ponzi scheme being run by its current owner. The court-appointed receiver says the place has absolutely NO recoverable value for its investors. If my last visit to the empty, depressing shell that once was GR's only mall is any indication, it's nowhere near the 74% capacity stated in Knape's article. That said, Bob Israels evidently thinks the foreclosure is a good thing, and he's talking to someone in California about buying it.

The structure's pretty solid with some bonuses (stores have unrenovated but semifinished full basements with some very old office trappings--creepy!), but other than that, the place needs near-total renovation. I was working there when WexTrust came in, and something smelled fishy even then. They made some minor improvements (carpeting, etc) to the main hall and redeveloped the end with AJ Wright and Famous Footwear, but left some very glaring problems completely ignored as far as existing retail space was concerned. The external wall of our bay was falling off and leaking, but no one cared. Same with Believe in Music's former space. I have been scratching my head as to how it stayed open especially since it seems to have lost about half its existing stores since I worked there. Guess I got my answer.

This raises a question. Does anyone actually think a place like Roger's Plaza could attract an investor who would put the necessary funds into a workable rehab or do you see the place bulldozed in the next few years? What would replace it? How would we redevelop this stretch of road to either give it back some of its old "glory" or to make it a more relevant/desirable part of the GR area rather than a rotting cesspool?

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or make a new topic. Someone please elucidate me (and fix it if you want).

[OneSweetWorld]

I'm surprised no one's posted this yet. Here's an absolutely wonderful (and surprising too! </snark>) addition to Wyoming's woes: Roger's Plaza is now going down what seems to be a very short one-way street to foreclosure as it was found to be part of a ponzi scheme being run by its current owner. The court-appointed receiver says the place has absolutely NO recoverable value for its investors. If my last visit to the empty, depressing shell that once was GR's only mall is any indication, it's nowhere near the 74% capacity stated in Knape's article. That said, Bob Israels evidently thinks the foreclosure is a good thing, and he's talking to someone in California about buying it.

The structure's pretty solid with some bonuses (stores have unrenovated but semifinished full basements with some very old office trappings--creepy!), but other than that, the place needs near-total renovation. I was working there when WexTrust came in, and something smelled fishy even then. They made some minor improvements (carpeting, etc) to the main hall and redeveloped the end with AJ Wright and Famous Footwear, but left some very glaring problems completely ignored as far as existing retail space was concerned. The external wall of our bay was falling off and leaking, but no one cared. Same with Believe in Music's former space. I have been scratching my head as to how it stayed open especially since it seems to have lost about half its existing stores since I worked there. Guess I got my answer.

This raises a question. Does anyone actually think a place like Roger's Plaza could attract an investor who would put the necessary funds into a workable rehab or do you see the place bulldozed in the next few years? What would replace it? How would we redevelop this stretch of road to either give it back some of its old "glory" or to make it a more relevant/desirable part of the GR area rather than a rotting cesspool?

I wasn't sure whether to post this here or make a new topic. Someone please elucidate me (and fix it if you want).

Honestly, I don't see Israel's store being that big of a driver for further investment in that area. Sure, it'll bring customers to the neighborhood, but it's still a furniture store; I wouldn't consider it a tourist destination or anything of the sort.

Neither do I see any huge investment in Rogers Plaza any time soon. I would think that stores such as Family Fair and MC Sports will stick around for a while, but I see that mall becoming a 'Plainfield-esque' mall in the future. It's just not a place retailers want to locate right now.

[NorthCoast]

Honestly, I don't see Israel's store being that big of a driver for further investment in that area. Sure, it'll bring customers to the neighborhood, but it's still a furniture store; I wouldn't consider it a tourist destination or anything of the sort.

Neither do I see any huge investment in Rogers Plaza any time soon. I would think that stores such as Family Fair and MC Sports will stick around for a while, but I see that mall becoming a 'Plainfield-esque' mall in the future. It's just not a place retailers want to locate right now.

They'd be better bulldozing it down and starting from scartch there, as is the case with a lot of 28th Street. At this point in time I don't think it would be viable enough to construct any sort of significant commercial enterprise there. Maybe they could gut it and turn it into some sort of working class lifestyle center.

Ever since Spartan failed to close the Burlingame Family Fare a block away from their Rogers Plaza store after acquiring D&W, I've been under the impression that the mall's future existence was in question.

[tamias6]

Mmmm. :/ I'd have to say the it would be best to Bulldoze Rodger's Plaza except for the Family Fare and start over with a brand new development. If Wyoming were smart that would be exactly what they should do and then build a "Downtown" in its place.

[pcdoctor]

I too would like to see roger's plaza get demolished as well. Before that is done though, some places that are still doing good business would have to relocate elsewhere. Places like Big Boy, MC Sports and I'm not sure if it's an office depot or an office max that's in there too. Also the DMV has to go somewhere too. I eventually see that old country buffet closing down in the future too. But yeah maybe a mini downtown would be nice for that area. There's a Family Fare on Burlingame as well. One of them should close down. It would just make sense.

[GRDadof3]

Some of you might cringe, but probably the best thing to do is tear it down and build a strip mall. A "lifestyle center" downtown area would almost certainly fail, because they all seem to require a more "upscale" brand to differentiate from other regional malls, and that would never fly in that location. The demos just aren't strong enough until you get way South and West. And it's too close to Rivertown to host the same store mix (A&F, Gap, etc.).

The only other option would be to build apartments in more of a mixed-use setting with some ground floor retail and service bays. Just MHO.

I love the fact that Israels is again stepping up to the plate.

[NorthCoast]

I too would like to see roger's plaza get demolished as well. Before that is done though, some places that are still doing good business would have to relocate elsewhere. Places like Big Boy, MC Sports and I'm not sure if it's an office depot or an office max that's in there too. Also the DMV has to go somewhere too. I eventually see that old country buffet closing down in the future too. But yeah maybe a mini downtown would be nice for that area. There's a Family Fare on Burlingame as well. One of them should close down. It would just make sense.

Heck, since Studio 28 is gone, raze that entire commercial strip on the south side of the road from Burlingame all the way to Clyde Park. Then they'd have a ton of room to build something neat.

[aowwt]

Oh brother, you guys are talking about my backyard like its nothing. Okay since I been in the thick of getting into everything on the west side of 28th here is some info for you guys.

First, D&W had done an additional 10 year lease on the burlingame store. As a result when it was bought by spartan it had like 8 years or so on it. Right now there is only 4 years left on the lease so Family Fare ie Spartan inc is going to keep it open until then.

Second, Classic Chevy is being looked at by several parties. I wont name names because I will not do that. Its just the way I am.

Third, Rogers Plaza is going to get even more development occuring. The thing is there is more deserving properties that need rebuilding. Going back to the redevolopment as of right now Spartan is going to be purchasing a plot of land and placing a gas station southwest of Klingmans to create a new entrence. As for how the bussiness are doing, well AJ Wrights is doing spectacular, Family Fare is doing better (the gas promotions are helping), the shoe place is doing okay, MC sports well I am not too sure, Office Max is doing okay, Harbor Frieght Tools is doing good, Big Lots is going crazy, Big Boys looks busy enough, but the Old Country Buffet is doing awesome. Then you have the two offices, the Post Office and the Secretary of State. There is still a lot of space that needs to be filled in but we are in bad times and frankly I would not expect to see everything filled in.

Fourth, the city manager and his office teams are working on a lot of projects. Frankly its a lot to deal with but they are trying to get a use zoning ordinace put together. Its taking time, it took a year just to rework the sign ordinace.

[NorthCoast]

Oh brother, you guys are talking about my backyard like its nothing. Okay since I been in the thick of getting into everything on the west side of 28th here is some info for you guys.

First, D&W had done an additional 10 year lease on the burlingame store. As a result when it was bought by spartan it had like 8 years or so on it. Right now there is only 4 years left on the lease so Family Fare ie Spartan inc is going to keep it open until then.

Second, Classic Chevy is being looked at by several parties. I wont name names because I will not do that. Its just the way I am.

Third, Rogers Plaza is going to get even more development occuring. The thing is there is more deserving properties that need rebuilding. Going back to the redevolopment as of right now Spartan is going to be purchasing a plot of land and placing a gas station southwest of Klingmans to create a new entrence. As for how the bussiness are doing, well AJ Wrights is doing spectacular, Family Fare is doing better (the gas promotions are helping), the shoe place is doing okay, MC sports well I am not too sure, Office Max is doing okay, Harbor Frieght Tools is doing good, Big Lots is going crazy, Big Boys looks busy enough, but the Old Country Buffet is doing awesome. Then you have the two offices, the Post Office and the Secretary of State. There is still a lot of space that needs to be filled in but we are in bad times and frankly I would not expect to see everything filled in.

Fourth, the city manager and his office teams are working on a lot of projects. Frankly its a lot to deal with but they are trying to get a use zoning ordinace put together. Its taking time, it took a year just to rework the sign ordinace.

Thanks for the insight. Sounds like despite what we here would like to see, Rogers Plaza doesn't really need a new building...just some new management.

Edited January 13, 2009 by j3shafer

[aowwt]

If I get Manager Holts permission I like to post something he was talking about a couple of weeks ago after the council meeting. If not too bad, you dont get to see it. Frankly its something I like to see anyways but thought it be pretty cool to see. I will stress that a lot of folks here would give some feedback about the idea and they can decide from that point. If anybody wants to send me a parcel map of 28th street I would love to give you some details on whats what and what each property is. I know just about every single location on that street, I work on it and I drive on it a lot.

[aowwt]

Well I read the DDA minutes from last tuesday and accordingly the Gas Station at Rogers Plaza for Family Fare is set for construction come this spring. INFILL YEAH!

[arcturus]

Circuit City to close 567 remaining US stores ... http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090116/circuit_city_bankruptcy.html

CC website: http://www.circuitcity.com/closed.html

More big box emptiness on 28th St.

Edited January 16, 2009 by arcturus

[tamias6]

Circuit City to close 567 remaining US stores ... http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/090116/circuit_city_bankruptcy.html

CC website: http://www.circuitcity.com/closed.html

More big box emptiness on 28th St.

I won't miss Circuit City all that much. Circuit City was more expensive than Best Buy. Additionally, Circuit City left a sour taste in my mouth with their stupid and thankfully defunct Divx Disc format they came up with several years ago. Paying to see a movie stored on a disk I already own. That's just a dumb rip off which consumers easily saw though. Well I feel sorry for the 38,000 folks that will loose their jobs because of this though.

[francishsu]

I won't miss Circuit City all that much. Circuit City was more expensive than Best Buy. Additionally, Circuit City left a sour taste in my mouth with their stupid and thankfully defunct Divx Disc format they came up with several years ago. Paying to see a movie stored on a disk I already own. That's just a dumb rip off which consumers easily saw though. Well I feel sorry for the 38,000 folks that will loose their jobs because of this though.

Several years ago for Divx? Try a decade! Time flies, doesn't it?

I liked Circuit City better than Best Buy, although I'm not sure why. I don't think Best Buy's prices were much better than CC's, if at all. I know that I always go to Best Buy as a last resort. Unfortunately, Circuit City dying means one less choice, which is not good when it leaves you with the likes of Best Buy and ABC Warehouse (which I never visit).

[John E]

I never liked Short Circuit, I mean Circuit City, lol. I thought their selection was disgusting and their sales staff didn't know what they were talking about.

I also saw that the parent company of Circuit City in Pontiac owns ABC Warehouse. Not a surprise as ABC Warehouse also has a limited selection. I do like shopping at ABC Warehouse when they have the item that I want because I can get a deal on it. But I do most of my shopping online. I'm a huge fan of Buy.com.

~John

[MuskeMI]

I almost had a heart attack this past Saturday. Drove to Penzey's on 28th St for my quarterly spice shopping run, only to find the store gone!!! Turns out they've moved to a different strip mall (on Alpine now). FWIW, those of you who like to cook should stop in some time.

[tamias6]

I never liked Short Circuit, I mean Circuit City, lol. I thought their selection was disgusting and their sales staff didn't know what they were talking about.

I also saw that the parent company of Circuit City in Pontiac owns ABC Warehouse. Not a surprise as ABC Warehouse also has a limited selection. I do like shopping at ABC Warehouse when they have the item that I want because I can get a deal on it. But I do most of my shopping online. I'm a huge fan of Buy.com.

~John

ABC warehouse was even worse than CC. Go in there and see stereo A for an attractive price. Ask the sale man if any are in stock. Salesman goes to the back room, has a 15 minute smoke break, then comes back out and says, " Sorry we're sold out of Stereo A. But let me call the other store. " Salesman goes to the back room again smokes another cigarette. Salesman comes back out after another fifteen minutes goes by and says "Ooooh I'm sorry they don't have Stereo A either. But we have Stereo B over here" He points to a stereo that cost 50 thousand times more than stereo A hoping to bait you into buying it. I hate ABC Warehouse because they have tried that dirty little tactic on me every time I made the mistake of going there. Since they are owned by the same company the owns Circuit City I hope CC's downfall pulls ABC down with them.

[pcdoctor]

Well this is off topic, but I want to tell you about the worst experience I had at best buy last week. We were overthere looking at printers and usually when we are there, there's always a salesperson there wanting to help you. Well there weren't many workers and it was busy. So the sales people were working with other customers. We were there for about 45 minutes and my father asked a couple guys for assistance and they said this person will be with you shortly. Well they never helped us. So we left mad.

[Allison Slater]

... So they were busy. It happens. I wouldn't call that bad service, per se. Bad service would be if they did that and WEREN'T busy.

[fotoman311]

... So they were busy. It happens. I wouldn't call that bad service, per se. Bad service would be if they did that and WEREN'T busy.

So if I'm at Meijer and there are only two cash registers open (this is a hypothetical here, obviously that would never happen) and the line is 15 people long, is that bad service, or just that they were busy?

I realize that sometimes retailers can struggle to predict when customer flow will increase. But, I'm sure they realize that if they don't have enough staff people, some customers that need help are going to get upset and leave.

[tamias6]

So if I'm at Meijer and there are only two cash registers open (this is a hypothetical here, obviously that would never happen) and the line is 15 people long, is that bad service, or just that they were busy?

I realize that sometimes retailers can struggle to predict when customer flow will increase. But, I'm sure they realize that if they don't have enough staff people, some customers that need help are going to get upset and leave.

Comparing Best Buy to Meijer is like comparing apples to oranges. Meijer is a grocery and discount retailer. All the checkout lanes it has are there only for the Christmas shopping season. The rest of the time only half of them are needed to function. That's it. Although at the Standale Meijer things are getting so busy that most of its checkout lanes remain open during the daytime. The other day I have seen every single lane open there. As for Best Buy, yeah its hard to get help. But doing your research on the internet is the best work around, this way you get in buy the products and get out.

[CK1]

As for Best Buy, yeah its hard to get help. But doing your research on the internet is the best work around, this way you get in buy the products and get out.

I agree...these days most (not all, but definitely most) chain stores require customers to be at least somewhat savvy in having a good idea of what they want prior to entering the door. If not, the customer is likely to buy something that is in the best interest of the store, not the customer (unneeded upgrades, sizes, accessories, specifications, etc.)

Fortunately, Main Street America is not completely dead, so for those that want to actually get great customer service before, during, and after making a purchase, there are still plenty of great independent retailers around town that provide just that (and fortunately many are still located in the urban areas that they have called home for 50+ years).

That being said, while I personally hate to comparison shop outside of browsing retailers' websites for the best price (I disdain going into 4 or 5 stores looking to save $50), almost all of the independent retailers in the area WILL price-match any local competitor's advertized price, and still won't skimp on the customer service after matching the price. Best of both worlds.

Next time any of us are in the market for electronics, appliances, furniture, etc., I challenge us (definitely including myself in this one) to make one stop at a local store before heading to Alpine, 28th, or Grandville and give them a chance to meet (or beat) the price at the chain stores. I'm willing to bet that greater than 9 out of 10 times, you'll be saving yourself from making the second stop.

[MuskeMI]

Well put, CK1, but you forgot one thing. These local places are going out of business as well. Classic Stereo, easily one of the area's best electronics stores, went out of business a few months ago. And they had been around for quite a while. I would be hard-pressed to name an independent, local store that sells electronics these days. I guess a few of the appliance stores sell TVs (Gerrit's, Nawara Bros) but I doubt they're especially competitive on price.

<Edited to add: Car stereo/electronic places don't count!>

Edited January 20, 2009 by MuskeMI

[fotoman311]

Comparing Best Buy to Meijer is like comparing apples to oranges. Meijer is a grocery and discount retailer. All the checkout lanes it has are there only for the Christmas shopping season. The rest of the time only half of them are needed to function. That's it. Although at the Standale Meijer things are getting so busy that most of its checkout lanes remain open during the daytime. The other day I have seen every single lane open there. As for Best Buy, yeah its hard to get help. But doing your research on the internet is the best work around, this way you get in buy the products and get out.

My comparison was for general service levels, I didn't want to directly compare Meijer to Best Buy. If the stores don't have enough staff people to assist customers who need help, the customers are not going to be happy and are going to have an unsatisfactory service experience. I'm pretty sure that most retailers will say they want their customers to have good service experiences.

The problem is becoming that if Best Buy's main competitor goes out of business, they don't have as much incentive to improve their customer experience.

[CK1]

I guess a few of the appliance stores sell TVs (Gerrit's, Nawara Bros) but I doubt they're especially competitive on price.

Unfortunately that is a very common misconception that I myself held for many years. Once I needed to furnish a house, however, I compared furniture prices at Talsma (local) with Art Van, and TV / stereo prices at Best Buy / Circuit City with Teermans (local place in downtown Holland). While the sticker price was almost always lower at the national places, but at the end of the day I never paid a penny more when I made all my purchases at the local places. Reason being is that most local places sticker-price by the manufacturers' suggested retail prices, whereas national stores develop their own pricing models (typically lower than MSRP). However, when I brought in an advertised price to the local shops, they always matched the price. The best part of it is that whenever I have a problem with anything I have purchased (doesn't matter where you buy it...electronics / appliances inevitably seem to go on the fritz), the local shops have bent over backwards to make the situation right for me.

That all being said, if a matching price or general price negotiation is not done with the local shop, you are right, you'll likely be paying a higher sticker price.