Central Prison

[Transplant]

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm thinking that maybe its time for NC to start thinking about building a new prison away from DT Raleigh. The 29 Acres of land that the current facility sits on could easily sell for $5million an acre.

I'm not sure why there hasn't been talk of moving it....

[Raleighsfinest]

You have to tae the good andthe bad with a city. Theres no way around that. Central prison is here to stay. There is plenty of untapped land downtown. Let's get to that first.

[Jones_]

You have to tae the good andthe bad with a city. Theres no way around that. Central prison is here to stay. There is plenty of untapped land downtown. Let's get to that first.

I always thought moving CP down near the Wake County Hammond Road Annex would be good idea. The current CP site is easily incorporated into the citys road system by extending Mountford Ave westward and bringing Morgan Street accross the tracks and intersecting at the traffic light already in place on Western Blvd. You are talking about a timeframe of 50 years minimum if ever though.

[Subway Scoundrel]

It should stay where it is. It is one of the oldest structures we have in the city. It is very interesting and sits in a unusual location. Has anyone ever driven along the "old wall"." It has been there since the 1800's.

I do not think it is a good idea to push jobs, buildings, etc out of downtown to build townhouses or condo buildings that will be "old" in 5 years, a lot of times just so people can say "Look at how much we are growing. A true city has a mix of all things DT, not just contruction cranes. It gets superficial after a while. We still have no idea what will go on Dix or half the open lots downtown?

Why don't we just move the blind school ? No need to keep those jobs near DT and who needs blind kids running around ??? (that is a sarcastic response)

[avery]

I think it is here to stay. I don't think it is a big deal to keep it where it is. It would cost tons of money for a new facility and most people don't want to see their taxes go to something like that. Yes, it is in a prime location for other development with the Dix land, Boylan Heights and NC State right there. It has been there a long time and probably won't move in our lifetime.

[MR-2]

Why don't we just move the blind school ? No need to keep those jobs near DT and who needs blind kids running around ??? (that is a sarcastic response)

I'm in complete agreement with the serious parts of your post, but I'm noticing a lot of slippery slope fallacies on this board lately, and it's getting tiring. Seems a bit childish for people to beat each other's arguments into the ground with ridiculous implications that neither side actually supports.

[Transplant]

I'm not suggesting that we remove the (cough) historic parts of the prison. I just can't think of other cities that have Max security prisons so close to there DT area....

Yes there are plenty of opportunities on Dix, and on the open lots downtown, but how long will it take for Raleigh to start 'using up' this land? From all the posts and news reports, it seems like Raleigh is poised to grow by leaps and bounds. I can only expect that most available property will be used up in the next 50 years. If so, why would leaders keep the prison there..... thats all I'm saying.

Also, one would hope that (if this ever was moved) there would be a mix of development that would include jobs which would replace of prison's 700 employees.

[Jones_]

It should stay where it is. It is one of the oldest structures we have in the city. It is very interesting and sits in a unusual location. Has anyone ever driven along the "old wall"." It has been there since the 1800's.

I do not think it is a good idea to push jobs, buildings, etc out of downtown to build townhouses or condo buildings that will be "old" in 5 years, a lot of times just so people can say "Look at how much we are growing. A true city has a mix of all things DT, not just contruction cranes. It gets superficial after a while. We still have no idea what will go on Dix or half the open lots downtown?

Why don't we just move the blind school ? No need to keep those jobs near DT and who needs blind kids running around ??? (that is a sarcastic response)

I respect that you think it should stay...but arguments that incorporate land use policy and planning are certainly relevent in urban discussions. Regarding land use, a school and a prison, while both institutions, constitute quite differnet uses. A financial feasibility analysis would include all the basics...the time value of the existing prison, the potential value of the land on which it sits, and the replacement cost at different sites that presumably involve cheaper land. I am the biggest proponent of historical preservation on this board and can tell you that the old prison was demolished long ago, the exception being the one wall you mentioned. That wall could easily be left and incorporated into a new development.

Having said all that, I tend to frown on campus like land uses in downtowns (I realize the current CP site is not quite downtown), as they are isolated from surrounding uses by fences and other security, in some cases architecture, and certainly by policy. The current CP site was chosen because it was isolated yet still accessible to the city (courts etc.) and close to the rail line (important back then for supplying a large prison population). I am thinking in terms of expanding pedestrian friendly urban fabric, and would love to have back every single historic building torn down over the years. I agree that most new condos...well...leave alot to be desired (heck I live in a 114 year old cotton mill myself). I do not think I am out touch or off base in any way by thinking that the current Central Prison should be relocated at some point in the future, even if that is 100 years from now.

[Subway Scoundrel]

I'm in complete agreement with the serious parts of your post, but I'm noticing a lot of slippery slope fallacies on this board lately, and it's getting tiring. Seems a bit childish for people to beat each other's arguments into the ground with ridiculous implications that neither side actually supports.

that is why I added the "sarcastic point"....not meant to be mean or childish.......but since they basically share the same property, why would a developer stop at the prison wall with no road access and continue to move over to next major road which is Ashe St (which is the Blind School property.)

Yes, I agree and just as tiring are people who don't add to the post but post things like the quote above while contradicting themselves.

Sorry, it is Friday and full of P&V...

[Tayfromcarolina]

How about we move Umstead Park. Now that is prime real estate acres upon acres. Right in between the airport and the city. That would be an excellent spot for almost limitless infill. Plus with all the greenways and parks the city and state already have would it be that terrible to do away or shrink Umstead a bit.

[monsoon]

They can do what was done in SC. SC moved its prison to Bishopville, SC and turned the operation over to a private company. They built a new modern facility and it provides employment to the people in that town which would be fairly desolate otherwise.

[pack-man]

I think that in the future they will consider moving it to the countryside. I thought there was once talk about replacing it with a maximum security prison in Goldsboro.

Who knows, I think eventually the city will push the state to consider some alternatives since it does kind of hurt real estate immediately around it.

I think the state is just concentrating on the Dix project for now.

[Subway Scoundrel]

But seriously, if anyone gets a chance and you may end up being stopped by the NC school for the Blind security......drive on the road between the prison and the NCSfB that emptys into Wastern. It is a small internal road. Just look at the wall? It is a shame the entire prison does not look like that. I think the wall dates back to 1800s. The road rides right along side it.

[Eastwestrob]

They can do what was done in SC. SC moved its prison to Bishopville, SC and turned the operation over to a private company. They built a new modern facility and it provides employment to the people in that town which would be fairly desolate otherwise.

I was thinking turn it into Condo's since that is the trend today.

[Eastwestrob]

How about we move Umstead Park. Now that is prime real estate acres upon acres. Right in between the airport and the city. That would be an excellent spot for almost limitless infill. Plus with all the greenways and parks the city and state already have would it be that terrible to do away or shrink Umstead a bit.

I hope that never happens...Umstead is large enough to be its own town and possibly have its own water supply.If that happens one day ...then go ahead and crown Raleigh the King of Sprawl.

[krazeeboi]

I was thinking turn it into Condo's since that is the trend today.

The old prison was located near DT Columbia on the banks of the Congaree River. A residential development will be built there soon.

[pack-man]

Those would be some cool condos "Prison Estates"

[pdxheel]

Should the State move NC's central prison in Raleigh to a more rural county? It seems weird to me that the State's maximum security prison is in the middle of its second largest city. Of the other states I have lived in the max security prison was not in a major city. I think the plot of land that the prison currently sits on would be very valuable to developers since it is near the Dix campus, Pullen park, NCSU, potential commuter rail stops and dowtown. In fact...now that I think of it the sale of the prison land could go to pay for a new prison in a better location. What are your thoughts? Do you think this will ever happen?

[avery]

Should the State move NC's central prison in Raleigh to a more rural county? It seems weird to me that the State's maximum security prison is in the middle of its second largest city. Of the other states I have lived in the max security prison was not in a major city. I think the plot of land that the prison currently sits on would be very valuable to developers since it is near the Dix campus, Pullen park, NCSU, potential commuter rail stops and dowtown. In fact...now that I think of it the sale of the prison land could go to pay for a new prison in a better location. What are your thoughts? Do you think this will ever happen?

I think it could eventually happen one day, but I don't think the state has any plans to move it. Even if the sale of the land went towards the construction of a new facility, there would be too many gripes given the current economic conditions. I think things like new schools and roads would take precident over a new prison.

If it were ever relocated, it would be one prime piece of property! How would you feel about having a home sitting on the land that a max security prison sat on? Might turn off some people who get ooked out on superstitions. I wonder how many acres the prison sits on?

[Transplant]

I agree this should be moved for many reasons.

According to the city records, Central Prison takes up about 40 acres.

[Subway Scoundrel]

As stated above in my posts NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear the suggestion is to build condos !! Tear up something old and put some condos there that will look tired in 10 years. The prison is part of the character downtown. I am all for building condos but not at the expense of "just to build condos so we can think of ourselves as a bigger city."

[avery]

As stated above in my posts NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear the suggestion is to build condos !! Tear up something old and put some condos there that will look tired in 10 years. The prison is part of the character downtown. I am all for building condos but not at the expense of "just to build condos so we can think of ourselves as a bigger city."

Have you seen the old pictures of what the Central Prison used to look like? Now, that was pretty cool looking (minus the shanty is the foreground)

[Transplant]

As stated above in my posts NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear the suggestion is to build condos !! Tear up something old and put some condos there that will look tired in 10 years. The prison is part of the character downtown. I am all for building condos but not at the expense of "just to build condos so we can think of ourselves as a bigger city."

Which other major to mid-major cities have maximum security prisons in their downtowns?

Why would condos be tired in 10 years? Will The Dawson, 222 Glenwood, etc be tired in 10? Why assume sub-urban units would be there?

[avery]

I don't think that condos have to look tired in 10 years...

Do you agree that the prison is more a part of the character of the city as Dorthea Dix is? How do you feel about the shutting down and redevelopment of Dix? I'm just curious, no flame intended.

[pdxheel]

As stated above in my posts NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!

I hear the suggestion is to build condos !! Tear up something old and put some condos there that will look tired in 10 years. The prison is part of the character downtown. I am all for building condos but not at the expense of "just to build condos so we can think of ourselves as a bigger city."

The central prison is an eye sore. Why not replace it. Just because a building is old does not necessarily mean it has good character. I'm a huge proponent of historic preservation, but not in this case.