Central Prison

[vitaviatic]

^You are thinking way above what the leaders in NC can comprehend. What other states have their main state pentitentiary in a downtown residential area?

[orulz]

Here's how I see the Central Prison deal.

I think it boils down to politics and economics. The state would get money if they sold the land for the prison, but it probably wouldn't cover construction of a new, modern facility. Therefore, there would be a net cost to the state of building a new prison elsewhere. Not to mention the cost of hiring new or relocating the staff, because the new prison would have to be WAY out in the middle of nowhere. Anyway, the way things work here is that the state of North Carolina absolutely will not do anything to help the city of Raleigh disproportionately to the rest of the state. In fact, they seem to go out of their way to NOT help the city. The state has declared itself immune to Raleigh's zoning and design review process. To help Raleigh out might be seen as "favoritism" and any such effort might be politically crushed by the rest of the state.

I think you vastly overstate the impact of Central Prison on downtown Raleigh. As far as I can see, it has next-to-no impact, positive or negative, on downtown. (That is, in comparison with having an empty lot there.) When you consider the opportunity cost of what could be there, of course, it's undeniably negative - but it's the city, not the state that would reap the benefits of redevelopment, so therefore it doesn't really figure into the cost/benefit equation. Besides, it's surrounded on two sides by institutional land that is essentially devoid of activity, and on the other sides by railroad tracks. The one main access road, Western Boulevard, is a utilitarian thoroughfare, and would take such a monumental effort to turn into something lively, that I don't really see it happening. These factors have the two-pronged impact of making the land less attractive for development, and also less visible to the public. Seriously, CP is completely invisible from almost every angle. Even driving down Western Boulevard you don't see it and think "Gosh, I just drove by a prison." It just looks like some nameless, bland institutional building that happens to be surrounded by a fence. There are dozens of such high-security facilities in the District of Columbia, and in fact also in every other city that thas a military base in an urban location (Norfolk and San Diego come to mind.)

At any rate, it's tough to see the Central Prison land ever being integrated as a part of downtown. It's even tougher to think of that happening right now, with the credit markets like they are today.

Sorry for the "can't do" attitude but seriously - I think you need a dose of perspective. You're speaking as if CP is the one and only thing that's been holding Raleigh back for a century, and we've all just been blind to it. CP is out of place, yes, but it's not that prime of a location, and there are a hundred other opportunities for development that would provide far more bang for the buck and contribute far more towards building up the urban core of the city into a more active, fun, livable, walkable space.

The time may (and will) come for CP to be redeveloped, so I am somewhat upset that the state is still spending money on new facilities on prison grounds. But nevertheless I sincerely believe that now is not the time for CP to come down.

[Gard]

^

I couldn't have said it better, Orulz. I don't think that the state is specifically anti-Raleigh, but more like anti-big city, as Charlotte gets it even worse than Raleigh and that I think is mostly due to the large number of rural reps. in the state legislature. That will change as urbanism creeps into more and more crevices of NC. As far as CP goes, I think that eventually the state will sell it, but it will most likely be when the property value is up to the point when they could at the least build a really modern facility elsewhere or perhaps they need the land themselves for another function that needs to be as close as possible to the state complex. Who knows, the city or some developer with deep pockets could try to buy it as well. Either way, it will be gone sooner or later.

[vitaviatic]

I'm going to paste this link in two categories. First, this one, as it depicts my primary complaint about a group that seems to treasure a tax/revenue non-performing stalag in the middle of a large city, and makes up excuses why it can't be removed. The second, I want to illustrate a point regarding transit on the "Transit Vision" (ironically named, since there is very little of that in them thar parts). Take it as an insult. Take it any way you like. It's a parting shot from me.

United States of Mind, Wall Street Journal, 09/23/08

NC ranks in the lower fourth quintile in "openness". And boy, does it show here.

I've said all I can say.