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metalman

Ocean Center

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There is no way this is getting past the navy. You might as well just dig a grave next to the plot that contains the Sunrise/Korean proposal, because that's exactly where this project is going. Never to be heard from again. :rolleyes:

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To pass it would (as someone else had talked about on another thread) have to have a more European design, in that it would have dense low to mid-rise buildings and a lot of street level character and interaction. That's if the Navy would allow the planned ratio of residential to retail and office over said airspace.

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Yes, it's inside the 70 decibel line so the Navy will never approve.

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Yes, it's inside the 70 decibel line so the Navy will never approve.

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Did a little more digging while eating my lunch -- the property is currently zoned A-12, with a parcel size of 33 acres. Which translates into 396 apartments, with no change of zoning required. NO WAY the VB council tells a land owner they can't use their property, in a permitted, conforming use, to the max allowed under the current zoning. Lawsuit looking for a place to happen if they don't.

Second, while this property is not within the RT-1 zoning district, it is noteworthy to see what the city was willing to do, and not do, regarding the Navy's desires:

While under the Navy's OPNAV Instruction 11010.B (December 19, 2002), hotels and motels in accident potential zones or in noise zones 65-70 dB DNL or higher are not deemed to be compatible with operations arising out of Naval Air Station Oceana, such uses are the historical base of the City of Virginia Beach's Resort Area. The development and enhancement of high-quality hotel and motel uses is thus encouraged, but such uses should be sensitive to their proximity to Naval Air Station Oceana and should, therefore, be compatible with air operations to the
greatest extent possible
.

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If this does come to fruition, I'm actually very excited about it. It's very forward thinking: look at the first line: "Complete with a light rail station." :)

Now, the trick will be to get it to fill a different niche than VBTC - different mix of retail / restaurants, etc. Maybe focus on boutiques and ethnic restaurants or something? The VB market seems pretty saturated with brandname chain stores. Note, also, that it's on more than double the acreage, therefore it just might be low to mid-rise, keeping the "downtown character" at Pembroke. We'll see how it pans out.

I just want to see the flippin' renderings now haha.

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For City Council to approve Ocean Center would be a flagrant violation of the December, 2005 BRAC Ordinance enacted by City Council. In it the City reserved the right to redevelop the Resort Area...but outside the 70 decibel line. Being that this property is inside, the Navy will never approve.

If you say "Yes" to Ocean Center say "Goodbye" to Oceana.

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How much of it is within the 70 dB line? I think you guys are jumping to conclusions a little hastily.

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...I think it is high time for us to say goodbye to Oceana. It is going to happen one day, might as well be at a time of our chosing. This is the third major development in less than a year proposed for the oceanfront that faces significant hurdles due to that base. The Navy and Va. Beach are no longer compatible in this day and age.

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You want to play a game of "Chicken" with the Navy? That's what nearly cost us Oceana last BRAC round.

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Vdogg -- I think I have clearly stated before that I think you are completely right, on many levels. The problem is, and what Henry is so wrong about, is that there are two important things that bode against the closure of Oceana.

First is that there is no legislative way to close Oceana. The 2001 BRAC law was enacted at the behest of DOD, with no provision past the round that occured in 2005. There is also no consensus on excess military infrastructure, as there was in 2001. In fact, there is support for more military infrastructure to house the expanded Army and MC. Only way to close Oceana is a single purpose federal law, as Congress has barred DOD from closing facilities without congressional action.

Second, is that there isn't any place for Oceana to go. The Cecil Field option is now closed -- the citizens of J'ville spoke loudly and clearly on that one. A new build master jet base is out of the question - over $2B, when the entire Navy Military Construction budget is only about $1B per year. Some possiblity exists when the new Joint Strike Fighter replaces some (FA-18 Cs) of the jets at Oceana. Might base the Navy JSFs at MCAS Cherry Point alongside the MC JSFs -- problem is the Super Hornets (FA-18 Es and Fs), and the inability of Cherry Point to absorb all 300 jets at Oceana. Even if you move the east coast JSFs to NC, where do you put the east coast Super Hornets?

So, Henry, since you are so convinced it is "goodbye to Oceana", I'd ask, goodbye to where?

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You want to play a game of "Chicken" with the Navy? That's what nearly cost us Oceana last BRAC round.

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Fentress Field, but the road infrastructure to that area sucks and would need a huge overhaul. A ton of construction would have to happen there to rebuild a base from the ground up. Then of course there is the hand full of people that live out there that would scream against it. I remember when that option was once talked about. Personally I think it is a good option, but then again, I don't own a home out there.

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I notice you still don't have any idea where, or how Oceana gets moved......

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A number of scenarios were discussed last BRAC round. The most realistic was moving the jets to an AFB in Valdosta, then moving the units there presently to New Mexico.

Think building a MJB is a problem for the Navy? Not in the context of a budget the size of the Feds....

Read today's Virginian-Pravda: the City is digging in to keep Oceana as long as possible. That means no Ocean Center.

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Screw what the military says. Are they going to keep Va Beach from maturing as a big city?.. By having to deal with their height requirements?.. Its the citys choice to build what they want and what is good for the people of Virginia Beach. Move the damn radar site or tear it down. Im sure that radar dome is pretty old anyways and outdated with technology.. I thought the technology was more digital anyways. and close down the oceana base. Yeah its 12k people working there. The city has outgrown the base. It would give developers and architects more land to build up and bring the future. I could see Oceana at 20k acres expand into another mixed use development like town center.. Oceana could be the name of the City in its city.. with monorail, highrises condos, offices, you name it. that land has soo much potential and very centrally located.

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To throw my 2 cents...I'm for the urban vibe as much as the next person here,but that radar dome is for the monitoring, surveillance, and protection of the Mid-Atlantic eastern seaboard. The Navy monitors air traffic, foreign, domestic, friendly, and God forbid-Foe. So, I'm sure that trumps little-'ol Virginia Beach in their estimate. I'd be for moving it, but they're not just going to tear it down and I don't think the demand of of our area is that great for Ocean's 20K acres to be swallowed up by an urban metropolis when Town Center is moving at the pace it is. I don't think anything is as centrally located as the Pembroke area and Town Center.

This is the article in conversation- http://hamptonroads.com/2009/07/funnylooki...erious-business

I don't think Oceana is going anywhere. The jets at Oceana are like the arm and legs; and Norfolk and it's carriers are the heart and brain of the operation...they kinda work together.

The radar tower was commissioned in 1995. It's 14 years old. It's not that old. It is part of a string of radar sites on the rim of the US coastline. If you know your history, it's kind like a current Distant Early Warning lines in Canada (for the US) during the Cold War (But not so distant); or the Texas Towers in the Atlantic Ocean off of the coast of New Jersey and upwards towards Canada, also during the Cold War to pick up any possible nuclear missile attack on American from Russia or Russian submarines.

My point with this history lesson (if you didn't know) is as disappointed as I'd be if the approval of these towers or the clean up of the oceanfront through urbanization is denied, the safety of our soil is an important mission. But, I do hope the FAA/DOD and the city come to an agreement to allow the oceanfront development to continue to flourish without the weakening of the radar defenses ability.

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Miami, here we come! ^_^

I'm extremely excited for the future of the Oceanfront..

And the good part is they aren't waiting years to take action! I can't believe the Laskin plan is already kicking off. Think about all those parking lots north of Pacific that can be built on. Holy crap haha. Lift the FAA restriction as soon as possible. Thanks. :P

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