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monsoon

The Russians are Coming, The Russians are Coming

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By now the US corporate media has finally given some airtime to the very serious conflict taking place between Russia and Georgia. It has been going on for several days now, but news sources here have either been focused on getting back their investment in the Olympics and/or reporting on John Edwards affair (constantly on Fox News). I started this topic here to talk about it.

A few things come to mind. First it is a much more complicated situation than the "Russia is Bad" story that we are being told here. Second the Bush administration has shown that it is totally incompetent when it comes to these kinds of issues. And where is Condi Rice? Third the Georgians are asking where is the USA? They helped in GW Bush's war on Iraq by sending troops there, but there is nothing in return. And finally the Russians for their part have basically responded to Bush's and McCain's words as nothing more than the mutterings from a paper tiger.

Meanwhile in the good 'ole US of A, I saw a post this weekend from a person living in Savannah. They wanted to know why they didn't see any Russian tanks. :shok:

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I did read that we airlifted the Georgian troops back from Iraq home so they could fight the Russians and that the Russians were fairly steamed over that. There's not much if anything we can do about this, Russia is going back to her old ways and we don't have the muster or will to stop her.

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It's interesting the Russian papers are in fact blaming the whole thing on the Bush Administration and John McCain. You can read it here.

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I had a family member tell me to watch out for turmoil in Georgia; this was several years ago and was part of a global gloom and doom conversation. I gave it very little thought as I was relatively ignorant of Georgia and its geography, but now its looking like my cousin really knew his stuff. The real lynch pin is the Baktu Tbilisi Ceyhan Pipeline; interuption of that pipeline would create a multi national crisis.

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One thing I know for sure: the USA has painted itself into a corner and has very little leverage on the situation.

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I guess I am too conspiratorial.

Bush makes all sorts of anti-Russian statements last week. At the Olympics, you can see hims talking to Putin almost conversationally. Now this slowly comes out - The big evil Russian and McCain is going to lead the war against the new USSR! It just seems too contrived for my tastes. Things fell into perfect timing (including the new China - a powerhouse now, who we can finally hold as enemies like we did pre-breakup USSR in competition). I just seems to be too much about Egos this time around. I don't think anyone is really portraying the full sides of this story, and it is very complicated. Sounds like another Iraq to me.

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By now the US corporate media has finally given some airtime to the very serious conflict taking place between Russia and Georgia. It has been going on for several days now, but news sources here have either been focused on getting back their investment in the Olympics and/or reporting on John Edwards affair (constantly on Fox News). I started this topic here to talk about it.

A few things come to mind. First it is a much more complicated situation than the "Russia is Bad" story that we are being told here. Second the Bush administration has shown that it is totally incompetent when it comes to these kinds of issues. And where is Condi Rice? Third the Georgians are asking where is the USA? They helped in GW Bush's war on Iraq by sending troops there, but there is nothing in return. And finally the Russians for their part have basically responded to Bush's and McCain's words as nothing more than the mutterings from a paper tiger.

Meanwhile in the good 'ole US of A, I saw a post this weekend from a person living in Savannah. They wanted to know why they didn't see any Russian tanks. :shok:

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So what would president Monsoon do in this situation? I think it would be best if we stayed out of this conflict all together.

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More than likely this is Putin, who longs for the good old days of the U.S.S.R, showing some strength to the U.S. and the rest of the world. The Bush administration is just a convenient scapegoat for Putin, he decided to take these actions on his own.

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The timing of this was perfect... Even I, knowing I'm meant to watch the Olympics, find myself more interested in the games than this conflict.

When I saw Bush in an interview during the games and heard the nonsensical things he had to say, disregarding the past 8 years, I thought to myself, "he is the last person I would want to have to deal with this problem", whatever "deal" means in this situation.

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The timing of this was perfect... Even I, knowing I'm meant to watch the Olympics, find myself more interested in the games than this conflict.

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Moscow has ordered a stop to hostilities in Georgia, but troops are to 'defend' themselves. They still got their message out to U.S., the E.U, and NATO at the cost of Georgian lives.

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It's being reported on BBC World that many many Georgians are extremely upset at the United States over this whole matter. Georgia was the 3rd largest partner in the Coalition against Iraq in terms of troops. Now they are saying in Georgia, "We put our boys lives on the line for the Americans, so where are they now?" Of course like NO after Katrina, the "help" is nothing but hollow words. The Americans for their part are leaving Georgia in droves.

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When I saw Bush in an interview during the games and heard the nonsensical things he had to say, disregarding the past 8 years, I thought to myself, "he is the last person I would want to have to deal with this problem"...

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Of course like NO after Katrina, the "help" is nothing but hollow words. The Americans for their part are leaving Georgia in droves.

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..... and to have an expectation that the US or EU can 'swoop' in a matter of days and save them is unrealistic.

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It's worth considering that the population of South Ossetia held a democratic vote for independence, which showed overwhelmingly (99%) that the population, which is only 20% ethnic Georgian, wants control of their own homeland. The same political bodies (UN, EU, etc.) who accept the independence of Tibet and Taiwan ignored the vote, essentially telling the South Ossetian population that they had no choice but to align with Georgia and negotiate a one-sided relationship.

The Georgian offensive was designed to wipe out rebel forces who were agitating for independence. The Russian counterattack was, in effect, a defense of quasi-independent South Ossetia against an invading army.

Viewed through the lens of "democracy = good", this is all a tangled moral mess. According to basic principles of democracy, ethnic Ossetians have the right to self-rule. But in order to defend their democratic rights we would have to side against Georgia, which is in itself a breakaway from the oppressive Russians. So IMO there is not a clear "good guy/bad guy" dynamic at work in this situation. The best resolution would be for Georgia to concede the right of self-governance to Ossetia, and for NATO to secure the Georgian border against any further aggression by the Russians.

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Just throwing this out there, but...

War and conflict drive up oil costs. Particularly in this region. With oil prices before going down, and the Iraq conflict loosing its steam, there are some people who might see this as a great way to keep prices up.

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Just throwing this out there, but...

War and conflict drive up oil costs. Particularly in this region. With oil prices before going down, and the Iraq conflict loosing its steam, there are some people who might see this as a great way to keep prices up.

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^This is less about cold war and more to do with failure of Bush foreign policy.

Now what is more interesting is what they are really saying about Bush and Rice in Russia. My guess is that you won't see this reported in the United States media, but view it here.

"You see, your status as Secretary of State of the USA is fast becoming as pathetic as your status as National Security Advisor was back in the days of 9/11 when you failed to provide any security whatsoever for your people. Like, for a week now you have been saying the same thing,

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It's worth considering that the population of South Ossetia held a democratic vote for independence, which showed overwhelmingly (99%) that the population, which is only 20% ethnic Georgian, wants control of their own homeland. The same political bodies (UN, EU, etc.) who accept the independence of Tibet and Taiwan ignored the vote, essentially telling the South Ossetian population that they had no choice but to align with Georgia and negotiate a one-sided relationship.

The Georgian offensive was designed to wipe out rebel forces who were agitating for independence. The Russian counterattack was, in effect, a defense of quasi-independent South Ossetia against an invading army.

Viewed through the lens of "democracy = good", this is all a tangled moral mess. According to basic principles of democracy, ethnic Ossetians have the right to self-rule. But in order to defend their democratic rights we would have to side against Georgia, which is in itself a breakaway from the oppressive Russians. So IMO there is not a clear "good guy/bad guy" dynamic at work in this situation. The best resolution would be for Georgia to concede the right of self-governance to Ossetia, and for NATO to secure the Georgian border against any further aggression by the Russians.

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Not to disagree, but simply to make the issue more complex - where does it end? Should the world fragment back into thousands of countries? Or essentially city-states?

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..... Our Declaration of Independence clearly spells out the right of a people to vote for self-governance.....

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At first glance it would appear that Russia would quickly over-power Georgia and force its will with its military might. But,.... South Ossettia (sp?) is physically separated from the rest of Russia by the Caucasus Mtns. Could be a long and arduous conflict.

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