The Voice of Reason

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OK, so there is this guy who works for the City.

his name is Deleted by Admin,

he is in charge of the industry cluster at the department of economic development.

I have a theory that I floated him on the phone once and I never really sent him the e-mail he wanted from me.

I think Hartford is prime for adding another major industry to its corporate roster.

and lets face it jobs are what really drives everything in a city. If metro hartford gained 5000 good jobs, it would likely gain 10,000 residents, and tons more money would be circulating through the city and even into city coffers to pay for more cops, mass transit, new buildings and everything else we love on these forums....

So how does Hartford find jobs?

What industries are best for Hartford?

What industry is Hartford best for?

What industries do the most good for their host cities?

I am hoping to create a discussion here that might lead to something that I can pass on to Mr. "Smith"

I have my opinion that I will hold back for a moment as to not completely steer the topic. But seriously I would love to hear everyons ideas. I also would love to pass these ideas along to possibly help this city make some progress.

lastly this is really about Greater hartford, so please do not say hartford cant support blah because of crime or what not. this is about developing a presence in a major industry outside of Insurance in the Hartford region. If a company moves from NY to Bloomfield, Hartford still wins. make sense?

Edited by The Voice of Reason

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Let's start by trying to get BACK what we lost - Insurance for starters, (light) manufacturing, professional hockey players, etc. Also we should be the FUEL CELL capital of the world.

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Let's start by trying to get BACK what we lost - Insurance for starters, (light) manufacturing, professional hockey players, etc. Also we should be the FUEL CELL capital of the world.

We will NOT get back what we lost in insurance. Industries, while maintaining concentrations around certain cities are diversifying. Call it a reslt of cheaper labour elsware, or call it a result of BC Planning since 9-11 Hartford is very unlikely to gain a new major insurance company, and can only count on modest growth in the existing ones. This is why I want to help this city... move on, or diversify.

Fuel cells... good call, but what besides UTC Power do we have around Hartford? What other major companies are there that can be lured here? how does this industry pay, how many jobs are associated?

Light industry is tough. people make too much money around here to support light manufacturing. unless you know some skill people here have tons of that is in demand in manufacturing? Sadly, I think this industry has passed the North East by. but surely we will support many small manufacturing firms.

are there any industries that are a natural extention to what we have?

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We will NOT get back what we lost in insurance. Industries, while maintaining concentrations around certain cities are diversifying. Call it a reslt of cheaper labour elsware, or call it a result of BC Planning since 9-11 Hartford is very unlikely to gain a new major insurance company, and can only count on modest growth in the existing ones. This is why I want to help this city... move on, or diversify.

Fuel cells... good call, but what besides UTC Power do we have around Hartford? What other major companies are there that can be lured here? how does this industry pay, how many jobs are associated?

Light industry is tough. people make too much money around here to support light manufacturing. unless you know some skill people here have tons of that is in demand in manufacturing? Sadly, I think this industry has passed the North East by. but surely we will support many small manufacturing firms.

are there any industries that are a natural extention to what we have?

We have UTC and most of it's subsidiaries, so that is pretty huge. It won't just need to be fuel cells, but the products and engines that will be powered by them. The industry pays great from what I know. I think alternative energy in general could be a great industry here. We have land for wind farms as well.

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We have UTC and most of it's subsidiaries, so that is pretty huge. It won't just need to be fuel cells, but the products and engines that will be powered by them. The industry pays great from what I know. I think alternative energy in general could be a great industry here. We have land for wind farms as well.

I know there is a wind company in Enfield. and there is a company that makes the laminant for solar panels also somewhere north of hartford.

I feel as though the best industry for jobs is Banking.

I know people might think me crazy, but I have a million reasons why I think Hartford could become a major banking center.

I know for a fact that the banking industry creats a huge number of back office jobs compared to the size of the company.

UTC for all it does for hartford has small offices. yes it has many offices, but as far as back office it is limited. this is a monster company. if it were a bank of simular size there would be larger than US Bank, Morgan stanley TD bank, AMEX, DB, BNY, RBC Credit Suisse etc...

it would be twice the size of Wachovia

Wachovia employs 20,000 in Charlotte.

not to mention what it has in its regional offices in the triangle a huge office in Phoenic and other major cities.

http://www.charlottechamber.com/index.php?..._employ_members

so as an industry Banking has some real ability to create back office jobs. jobs that do not need to be anywhere near the branches.

more on this later. because I know there are bad points as well

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I think Hartford is prime for adding another major industry to its corporate roster.
Why? What competitive advantages are you, is anyone, seeing?

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Why? What competitive advantages are you, is anyone, seeing?

Hartford has one of the highest productivity numbers in the world as well as one of the most educated work forces.

that is enough.

not to mention we have the best coffee shop in the world.... damn you got negative man, what gives?

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So Banking is something that most major cities have a good amount of back office operations. but some cities have had mure and some less.

Hartford lost its toe hold in banking with the loss of CBT and eventually bank of America buying Fleet shawmut society for savings.....

Right now there is no major back office operations in Hartford. BOA Peoples and Webster all have offices, but each of these could obviously have a larger presence. right now TD bank has almost no presence. hartford needs to get TD to put a major office downtown. this bank is fastbecoming a powerhouse in the US, and hartford should not over look the potential benefits of this. Peoples bank recently doubled in size. many of the banks ot bought to the noprth of its home Bridgeport. Hartford needs to become Peoples central command post. Peoples announced today it will be making further purchases. Hartford needs to make sure the back office jobs do not stay in DC or Maine or wheverver this bank was. Hartford needs to make it worth peoples time to move the jobs into our downtown. we have the office space. we have a decent ammount of banking positoins. We have a crap load of people with knowledge of insurance, investments and other peripheral industries. So just offer them a tax break or something to be a bug in their ears. Hartford is a much better place to run a bank than Bridgeport. I think Webster bank has all ready realized this about Waterbury.

To me TD bank is the key thing. Peoples, Webster and BOA would be next. Hopefully we could get a back office from citizens.

a last reason why I like banking is because the govt requires that banks give to charities in the communities they operate. Cities with major banks have incredible cultural endowments due to these requirements.

thoughts?

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......

a last reason why I like banking is because the govt requires that banks give to charities in the communities they operate. Cities with major banks have incredible cultural endowments due to these requirements.

thoughts?

I am not aware of any such requirement that a bank do this. Can you explain further?

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Until the cost of business in Connecticut comes down....... That means taxes, health care regulations, unions, energy, kickbacks to Perez,....attracting new industry will be hard.

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Our competitive advantage is an educated, productive workforce.

We need to think about future industries.

That means:

Biotech

Nanotech

Medical devices

Alternative energy tech (which we have to some degree)

Saying this is one thing.

Attracting these types of industries is a different story.

http://www.theextremefuture.com/

I read this guy's book. He is a little wacky but I think some of what he says is right on the money.

Hartford will not get ahead trying to get back what we lost- Insurance, manufacturing, etc. We need to look at where the economy is heading.

Edited by GHartford

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Our competitive advantage is an educated, productive workforce.

We need to think about future industries.

That means:

Biotech

Nanotech

Medical devices

Alternative energy tech (which we have to some degree)

Saying this is one thing.

Attracting these types of industries is a different story.

http://www.theextremefuture.com/

I read this guy's book. He is a little wacky but I think some of what he says is right on the money.

Hartford will not get ahead trying to get back what we lost- Insurance, manufacturing, etc. We need to look at where the economy is heading.

well said.

I am encouraged by an Obama commercial touting investment in future energy technology, and would love to see CT get prepared to revieve some of the benefits of these industries. Obama is not a lock, but I am sure that people like T Boone Pickens we see to this country getting its priorities right. and if the government backs these industries, this could be as big as the computer industry was for the west coast.

I continue with banking because it is always going to be here. and it will always be job intensive. but fuel cells, solar, wind and any future tech would be great assets here in CT

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Our competitive advantage is an educated, productive workforce.

We need to think about future industries.

That means:

Biotech

Nanotech

Medical devices

Alternative energy tech (which we have to some degree)

Saying this is one thing.

Attracting these types of industries is a different story.

http://www.theextremefuture.com/

I read this guy's book. He is a little wacky but I think some of what he says is right on the money.

Hartford will not get ahead trying to get back what we lost- Insurance, manufacturing, etc. We need to look at where the economy is heading.

The only problem is that all of these are industries that fill predominantly office parks and/or industrial parks as opposed to downtown office buildings. Even in Boston where there are lots of biotech jobs, the majority of them are on the 95 or 495 corridors in office parks where they can have more expansive labs, etc. Even energy companies are more inclined to fill up an office park in the suburbs than in downtown.

Hartford really needs to give ginormous tax incentives to get back the types of jobs it is losing to the suburbs and to lure other suburban (or companies from other cities) companies back into the city.

What at one point could have been a good idea though I doubt it still remains feasible would have been to offer ESPN a sweetheart deal to build a huge tower in Hartford as its HQ rather than being stuck out in Bristol. I think every other network is located in a very urban location except ESPN (I'm sure I'm wrong, but you get my point). I can't see any way that at this point they would move and if they did I would guaranty they'd move to a Disney/ABC owned location in NY or LA but it is companies like that would be willing and able to move into prime space that Hartford fails to even attempt to attract.

There are also companies in the northeast such as Fidelity that are always looking to expand and reap the rewards of huge tax breaks given by municipalities to do so. Instead of them building a huge compound in Raleigh/RTP, had CT or Hartford swooped in with some land a nice tax abatement the rewards could be huge. I think finance/banking should be the main target as there are tons of back office jobs out there for these and the proximaty to both NY and Boston would make it a logical location to fill some lower end jobs that make no sense to have in Manhattan or Back Bay.

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In the state of CT, Biotech is really centerd around New Haven, and understandably so.

There are some firms around Hartford, and then again because of the Pharma industry around New London

a google search

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=connecticut+biotech

shows it on a map quite clearly.

I think Uconn medical center is helping to bring more up the river valley, but I think the most hartford can hope for is overflow from New Haven.

nanotech

http://www.nanotech-now.com/news.cgi?story_id=21223

Connecticut Awards $195,000 To Three Connecticut Nanotechnology Companies

The winners are Mott Corporation - Farmington, CT;

Mystic MD - New London, CT

GenCell Corporation - Southbury, CT

it looks like we have some presence in the industry, but this industry is really one that has more questions than answers, and most of the answers are coming from major research universities... and sadly U Chicago, is not in Hartford

Medical devices, is something that I know CT does ok at. Jarvic was from CT, and there is a major maker of those heart zapper paddle thingies here. I really have no idea about this industry as you can surely tell, but it seems to me that we would have a decent presence with yale New haven Hospital. problem is, that this is New Haven, again, and not Hartford.

It seems to me that Hartford can not compete with New haven in regards to Medical devices or Biotech.

But I definately see potential in Alternative Energy

http://www.utcpower.com/fs/com/bin/fs_com_PowerHomePage/

UTC is obviously a huge start with its fuel cell business.

Wind Energy is bolstered by Noble Poeer Inc.

http://domesticfuel.com/2008/05/22/first-e...ompany-planned/

but these guys are based in Essex CT

and this link gives you a list of companies. most of them in SW CT

http://energy.sourceguides.com/businesses/...P/wRP/wRP.shtml

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We will NOT get back what we lost in insurance. Industries, while maintaining concentrations around certain cities are diversifying. Call it a reslt of cheaper labour...Hartford has one of the highest productivity numbers in the world as well as one of the most educated work forces....Our competitive advantage is an educated, productive workforce....
If we are not getting insurance jobs back due to cost of labor, we are certainly not going to gain banking jobs due to the same cost consideration. By the way, the largest employer in the state is UTC. The kind of jobs UTC provides are high pay engineering and high pay blue collar jobs. I think we should leverage what we already have and encourage companies that supply to UTC to move to CT, Hartford region obviously. I also disagree with not encouraging manufacturing base. Contrary to popular believe, not everything is made in China. The US is still the largest manufacturing economy of the world. If I am not mistaken, 50% of our 10 trillion dollar economy is in manufacturing. With the high cost of oil, thus transportation from overseas, and lower dollars, thus more expensive imports, we should try to hold on to current manufacturing businesses and encourage formation of new ones.

Our educated and productive workforce is not terribly dynamic. We need new blood. We should improve our urban environment so college grads will want to stay in CT. Right now very few Yale, UConn, Trinity, UHart, Quinnipiac...are not sticking around because we don't have the dynamic city life to attract them. CT maybe a good place for school, but not a exciting place for jobs after graduation. If we have kids with innovative ideas staying in CT, we don't have to encourage one industry over another, they will figure out better than anyone in the Hartford economic development department or us in this forum. The old folks just need to provide them with managerial expertise and money.

I also don't think we should go with only the emerging sexy fields, be them nano bio or green. We need a balance approach so that the next Nike or the next Sara Lee will get the same welcome as the next Amgen and the next Microsoft.

not to mention we have the best coffee shop in the world.
Thanks, but actually, just the best in Connecticut.

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If we are not getting insurance jobs back due to cost of labor, we are certainly not going to gain banking jobs due to the same cost consideration. By the way, the largest employer in the state is UTC. The kind of jobs UTC provides are high pay engineering and high pay blue collar jobs. I think we should leverage what we already have and encourage companies that supply to UTC to move to CT, Hartford region obviously. I also disagree with not encouraging manufacturing base. Contrary to popular believe, not everything is made in China. The US is still the largest manufacturing economy of the world. If I am not mistaken, 50% of our 10 trillion dollar economy is in manufacturing. With the high cost of oil, thus transportation from overseas, and lower dollars, thus more expensive imports, we should try to hold on to current manufacturing businesses and encourage formation of new ones.

Our educated and productive workforce is not terribly dynamic. We need new blood. We should improve our urban environment so college grads will want to stay in CT. Right now very few Yale, UConn, Trinity, UHart, Quinnipiac...are not sticking around because we don't have the dynamic city life to attract them. CT maybe a good place for school, but not a exciting place for jobs after graduation. If we have kids with innovative ideas staying in CT, we don't have to encourage one industry over another, they will figure out better than anyone in the Hartford economic development department or us in this forum. The old folks just need to provide them with managerial expertise and money.

I also don't think we should go with only the emerging sexy fields, be them nano bio or green. We need a balance approach so that the next Nike or the next Sara Lee will get the same welcome as the next Amgen and the next Microsoft.

Jojo, I guess you are not going to accept the idea that the city is not going to dynamicly change without attracting jobs. I agree that if it were to become the city we all want it to be industries would be knocking on our cities door. I however would like to get some more ideas together here and presented it to the people in charge. I may not be worth billions, or even be like AI Engineering, so I have to do my part by action and assisting a department that is understaffed, and quite honestly not very effective.

I was hoping to get some ideas together about what industries we have the best chance to attract. And wich of those industries are most worth the effort and $$$.

Manufacturing is great, it pays well and pays well right off the bat. But the reality is that major manufacturing firms do not just up and move to CT. Sure the State could pull a miracle and somehow get a Toyota plant. But putting 2000 Toyota workers in Windsor would not have the same effect as putting 2000 TD Bank Employees into downtown even if the pay is more for the Toyota people. Hartford has the office space ready for a bank. it has the workers trained in all manners of the finance industry, and operations. It even has tax breaks for insurance companies that could be used for banks with little cariation if a big fish could be landed.

Would it hurt your feelings if say TD bank were given a $13.6M tax break over 7 years if they brought 2000 people to Hartford?

Because the state gives plenty to the big insurance companies... rightfully so

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/news5142.html

Hell if a company like TD were to build its own office and guarentee a long term/permanent presence I would offer them a ton of tax breaks.

The bank charity rule

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Community_Reinvestment_Act

I used to work in a bank and you needed to be able to show the info to anyone who asked. For some reason it was banged into my head like it was very important. since 10 odd years later I remeber it :) at the time my bank had recently passed the $250 millin in deposits level making it face stricter laws.

SNIP

Previously, all institutions over $250 million in assets were subject to a three-part CRA test that covered lending (including community development loans), qualified investments, and services (including community development services) to their assessment areas. Institutions less than $250 million were subject only to a lending test.

SNIP

since 2005 the number is $1BLN so obviously many banks do not need to support services, and qualified investments.

I can assure you Banks build parks and community centers with these funds. Bigger the bank, the better the gifts.

It is also great advertizing for the banks so they do not mind so much

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The only problem is that all of these are industries that fill predominantly office parks and/or industrial parks as opposed to downtown office buildings. Even in Boston where there are lots of biotech jobs, the majority of them are on the 95 or 495 corridors in office parks where they can have more expansive labs, etc. Even energy companies are more inclined to fill up an office park in the suburbs than in downtown.

Hartford really needs to give ginormous tax incentives to get back the types of jobs it is losing to the suburbs and to lure other suburban (or companies from other cities) companies back into the city.

What at one point could have been a good idea though I doubt it still remains feasible would have been to offer ESPN a sweetheart deal to build a huge tower in Hartford as its HQ rather than being stuck out in Bristol. I think every other network is located in a very urban location except ESPN (I'm sure I'm wrong, but you get my point). I can't see any way that at this point they would move and if they did I would guaranty they'd move to a Disney/ABC owned location in NY or LA but it is companies like that would be willing and able to move into prime space that Hartford fails to even attempt to attract.

There are also companies in the northeast such as Fidelity that are always looking to expand and reap the rewards of huge tax breaks given by municipalities to do so. Instead of them building a huge compound in Raleigh/RTP, had CT or Hartford swooped in with some land a nice tax abatement the rewards could be huge. I think finance/banking should be the main target as there are tons of back office jobs out there for these and the proximaty to both NY and Boston would make it a logical location to fill some lower end jobs that make no sense to have in Manhattan or Back Bay.

Fidelity would have been a great snag for Hartford, I wonder if they even went after them. I know Fidelity has a large suburban campus that is getting the jobs hartford might have a shot at.

Yeah ESPN would not come downtown. they own Bristol and are expanding again.

But I should say that suburban development is not all bad. Really anything new to greater Hartford would be great. Stealing from our own suburbs means little. It might help downtown a little, but ESPN contributes to downtown by creating wealth, bringing personalities, interns live downtown.

I see real potential with UTC power and the other alternative power industries. UTC power has the backing and is very much growing. Right now Fire and Security are their primary focus with power as a #2. the rest of their industries are fairly mature I see fire and security bringing several hundred more jobs to the area, but now thousands. They tend to have a small back office (my wife works there) and far flung operations and manufacturing facilities. This is just how UTC operates. The spin off companies have great potential. look at all the small locally owned and operated insurance companies. these guys at one time worked at one of the big shops. but some of the babies are now massive on their own right. Hopefully UTC R&D can have a simular affect in these emerging industries

Edited by The Voice of Reason

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Thank the Hartford city Counsel for having a stipulation on WFSB that required union workers to build there new facility. This is the reason they chose Rocky Hill, as well as a package of tax abatements and land.

Thank You Eddie Perez.

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That doesn't seem to have anything to do with charity. It says that banks have to serve the entire community on an equal basis especially when it comes to lending money. You mentioned Wachovia earlier and I am not aware that this bank or Bank of America, the other big bank in Charlotte operate any charities in this city or in the surrounding communities in the county.

Well lending is the primary focus, but charity is part as well.

I did a quick google for BOA since they are the biggest and easiest to find

http://newsroom.bankofamerica.com/index.ph...s&item=4921

and a snip

"The bank was rated on 218 geographic assessment areas, where it does business in 23 states and the District of Columbia. During the evaluation period Bank of America originated 971,677 reportable loans that total $127.6 billion. Also during that period the bank made 3,513 investments, including grants and contributions totaling almost $1.3 billion."

Bold is mine.

this was from 2002-3 financial year.

and a local bank again from 2002 for some reason?

Webster bank

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EI..._18/ai_84898413

During the past two years Webster made $22 million in community development investments, which regulators said "showed an excellent response to credit and community development needs." The bank also awarded 212 community development grants amounting to $773,000 to support activities essential to low- and moderate-income individuals.

at that time Webster had just 100 branches.

they now have 150+ now sure how they have done since, but you can see how a good bank can have a good affect on the community. and yes, bigger the better

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.... Also during that period the bank made 3,513 investments, including grants and contributions totaling almost $1.3 billion."....
I don't doubt that, but I don't think any regulation forced them to make these contributions back in 2003. Also $1.3 billion spread across the entire United States which the article also points out would represent a huge endowment for the community where they are HQ'd. BTW, both of these banks are laying off thousands these days and are subject to multiple lawsuits due to the predatory and unfair lending practices they have been involved in the years since that article was written. There is an ongoing topic here at UrbanPlanet about it. The later posts in that topic are probably of more interest.

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I don't doubt that, but I don't think any regulation forced them to make these contributions back in 2003. Also $1.3 billion spread across the entire United States which the article also points out would represent a huge endowment for the community where they are HQ'd. BTW, both of these banks are laying off thousands these days and are subject to multiple lawsuits due to the predatory and unfair lending practices they have been involved in the years since that article was written. There is an ongoing topic here at UrbanPlanet about it. The later posts in that topic are probably of more interest.

I used these 2 banks for just this reason. They are worst of breed in some ways right now. But the points are still able to be made with them. I see Webster being bought here at some point. I am not very impressed with them. Same with New Alliance. But Peoples United Bank is in a strong place and growing. expect to hear aquisition news in the near future. TD Bank although Foreign owned is also in an incredible position right now. I really would be pleased with a major regional office in Hartford. however no matter, any of these banks would be a great addition to downtown Hartford. We will even allow BOA to move their predatory buts here :)

as for the Ills of Banking...

Well I do not want to get into this too deeply, but my mom told me not to sign anything I didnt read.

Predatory lending might have happened and in some cases I am sure it was very bad. But no one was forced to do anything against their will. Now, people like me will be bailing their butts out by paying taxes for the rest of our lives. This is more of the Bull sh*t Victim mentality that has plagued this country in recent years. No it could not be your fault for buying more than you could afford. It must be the Banks fault for letting me do it.

The banks that made dumb moves are paying for them. The workers as always pay for it more than the executives. Hell other companies that did nothing foolish are laying people off because they can make good excuses to cut costs right now (trust me, my job is being outsourced from ING Investments, I know)

In the end many of the lowest level jobs will be hacked by banks as well as many of the most visable jobs will be hacked, but the banks will still be MAJOR employers.

Hell if I wanted to, I could get into the thousand ways why Insurance companies are the devil, or how UTC is the devil, or any large employer really. They all lay people off and such, but anything that can bring jobs that is a new industry, or creates an industry cluster is a huge benefit to a city the size of Hartford-Springfield. So we covet them. :) in fact we adore them.

As far as that charity, it is in fact part of the act, and although it may be spread out as the law requires, it is still significant.

1.3 Billion spread among 23 States + DC comes down to $54M each. I am sure Charlotte got a larger cut.

Regardless of any of it, its a nice little bonus that comes with banking, and that was my only point.

any other industries or ideas?

anyone know of any companies in these industries that are poised to make larger moves, or that the city/state could help push to the next level?

Edited by The Voice of Reason

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lastly this is really about Greater hartford, so please do not say hartford cant support blah because of crime or what not. this is about developing a presence in a major industry outside of Insurance in the Hartford region. If a company moves from NY to Bloomfield, Hartford still wins. make sense?

...Manufacturing is great, it pays well and pays well right off the bat. But the reality is that major manufacturing firms do not just up and move to CT. Sure the State could pull a miracle and somehow get a Toyota plant. But putting 2000 Toyota workers in Windsor would not have the same effect as putting 2000 TD Bank Employees into downtown even if the pay is more for the Toyota people.

Hartford has the office space ready for a bank. it has the workers trained in all manners of the finance industry, and operations. It even has tax breaks for insurance companies that could be used for banks with little cariation if a big fish could be landed.

Would it hurt your feelings if say TD bank were given a $13.6M tax break over 7 years if they brought 2000 people to Hartford? Because the state gives plenty to the big insurance companies... rightfully so

You are contradicting your original premise. I thought the whole discussion is regarding the Hartford region not the city of Hartford. If we are talking the city only, then of course large manufacturing enterprises is not realistic, although small one is. Hartford lost plenty of jobs to the suburbs, not to overseas, so it would seems what you are ultimately asking is how can city of Hartford compete for jobs against its own suburbs. Again back to my original question of competitive advantage, and also disadvantage. Our educated and productive work force can drive to suburbs' office parks as indeed many are doing everyday. The State will provide equal incentive to lore TD Bank to city of Hartford or to Day Hill Road, next to Met Life. The city people need to address why are companies fleeting to the suburbs. I mean what good is it for the city if after all the hard work, TD bank moved to City Place II and after it's obligation period ended it moves to Day Hill Road, next to Met Life?

Also you are hoping for is an elephant trophy. It is much easier to get small and local start up than to get a major company to move.

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You are contradicting your original premise. I thought the whole discussion is regarding the Hartford region not the city of Hartford. If we are talking the city only, then of course large manufacturing enterprises is not realistic, although small one is. Hartford lost plenty of jobs to the suburbs, not to overseas, so it would seems what you are ultimately asking is how can city of Hartford compete for jobs against its own suburbs. Again back to my original question of competitive advantage, and also disadvantage. Our educated and productive work force can drive to suburbs' office parks as indeed many are doing everyday. The State will provide equal incentive to lore TD Bank to city of Hartford or to Day Hill Road, next to Met Life. The city people need to address why are companies fleeting to the suburbs. I mean what good is it for the city if after all the hard work, TD bank moved to City Place II and after it's obligation period ended it moves to Day Hill Road, next to Met Life?

Also you are hoping for is an elephant trophy. It is much easier to get small and local start up than to get a major company to move.

I suppose you are right, I kind of spun myself around on that one. But the point I was trying to make was that office jobs, especially downtown would be better for the region. and I was hoping to make this point while also pointing out that it is highly unlikely for the area to pull a major manufacturer, so it was mute.

I am not talking about hartford competing against its burbs, but I suppose in a way I am. Day Hill is just like Framingham MA is many ways, but what makes Hartford better than these places? what makes us attractive to a major employer? I am hoping that tax breaks would be a start. Yes I concede that the same company might take a state tax break and leave for the burbs, but you are defeating yourself without trying. This simply put is now how I work. It is also not how the department for attracting new business to the area works, or should work. am I making better sense now?

I know the deck is stacked against us, but more important than pointing out inconcistancies in my posts, or faults of the Mortgage industry, what should we work towards bringing to the area. because doing nothing is a failure before we begin.

I do intend on drafting something up, and was hoping to have the people of this forum contribute as well as add weight to the ideas my reaching a concensus, or at least some kind of general statement.

as far as the Elephant trophy you were being too literal in my use of exadurated examples for effect.

In reality I would hope to lure maybe 30K SF of TD Bank space. Maybe 150 Employees. from there maybe lure another 50 PBCT employees, then 50 more WBS employees, and keep the momentum untill New Alliance moves in and BOA adds more etc...

I see Hartford as a potential for easily another 1000 banking Jobs in the near term, but you have to start somewhere.

I think if any progress was made on this front, and if the same tax breaks that Insurance gets were extended to banks, we would see that (admittedly made up) number leap.

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I suppose you are right, I kind of spun myself around on that one. But the point I was trying to make was that office jobs, especially downtown would be better for the region. and I was hoping to make this point while also pointing out that it is highly unlikely for the area to pull a major manufacturer, so it was mute.

I am not talking about hartford competing against its burbs, but I suppose in a way I am. Day Hill is just like Framingham MA is many ways, but what makes Hartford better than these places? what makes us attractive to a major employer? I am hoping that tax breaks would be a start. Yes I concede that the same company might take a state tax break and leave for the burbs, but you are defeating yourself without trying. This simply put is now how I work. It is also not how the department for attracting new business to the area works, or should work. am I making better sense now?

I know the deck is stacked against us, but more important than pointing out inconcistancies in my posts, or faults of the Mortgage industry, what should we work towards bringing to the area. because doing nothing is a failure before we begin.

I do intend on drafting something up, and was hoping to have the people of this forum contribute as well as add weight to the ideas my reaching a concensus, or at least some kind of general statement.

as far as the Elephant trophy you were being too literal in my use of exadurated examples for effect.

In reality I would hope to lure maybe 30K SF of TD Bank space. Maybe 150 Employees. from there maybe lure another 50 PBCT employees, then 50 more WBS employees, and keep the momentum untill New Alliance moves in and BOA adds more etc...

I see Hartford as a potential for easily another 1000 banking Jobs in the near term, but you have to start somewhere.

I think if any progress was made on this front, and if the same tax breaks that Insurance gets were extended to banks, we would see that (admittedly made up) number leap.

The difference between a company going to the Hartford suburbs and it going to the Boston suburbs (such as Framingham) is that Boston already has plenty of density and the reason those companies are leaving Boston is most likely b/c they are priced out of downtown. I would argue that companies leave Hartford for predominantly desirability reasons. You don't move to an office park in Rocky Hill just b/c of cost, especially for a company like WFSB that owned the building they were in. In my opinion, Hartford needs to establish some level of density before it can accept losing jobs to the suburbs. I actually think it hurts both the city and region for those jobs to move outside the downtown area.

I agree that luring in banking/finance companies should be the target. Hartford is desirable b/c of the proximity to the large banking centers in the Boston area and New York area (including Stamford/Greenwich) and it is significantly cheaper and less congested than either of those areas.

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