East Hills/Eastown Housing Stock

[fotoman311]

You're right, there's been a renewal of appreciation for older homes and older neighborhoods taking place throughout the country. It's driven by a lot of factors. You've got a generation of younger people who are discovering the rewards of living in a walkable urban neighborhood with a sense of community and an acceptance of diversity. Many of them grew up in sterile suburban worlds dominated by cheap, disposable, de-humanizing auto-centric building practices. They see neighborhoods like East Hills and Eastown as worth revitalizing, protecting. More power to them.

But as critical as it was to saving Heritage Hill in the 1960s, I'm not sure a Historic designation is what would help generate more interest in Eastown or East Hills among prospective homeowners. In fact, I'd like to see a more progressive attitude towards the architecture that's built in these neighborhoods. I was just in San Francisco over the weekend, and what struck me was seeing new, contemporary designs mixed in with the Victorian 'Painted Ladies.' It's like 'Dwell' meets 'This Old House': The infill creates a very exciting dynamic, seeing the past and the future side-by-side. It would be cool to see more of that in Eastown, much cooler than new pseudo-historic craftsmans, , IMHO.

Having renovated a number of Eastown area homes, I can tell you it's a constant challenge being the caretaker of these antiques. It takes a lot to bring them into the 21st century while preserving their original integrity. A restrictive historic designation would only further deter many homeowners from making 'improvements'. I'd suggest the focus be on getting the city to enforce those building codes and other ordinances that are already on the books.

But what would truly help generate more interest in the area is better schools and safer streets. The guns-and-drugs subculture that's infested the areas just to the west and south of Eastown and East Hills has be eradicated.

[Mark Miller]

That is if the old growth windows are in good shape, normally they aren't. When they rot they allow cold air in, thus all those windows you see with plastic on them in the winter. I prefer the look and feel of well maintained wood windows, and would never recommend putting vinyl windows in a house where they wouldn't look o.k. A twenty year life span on a window isn't bad either by the way.

[PRCH]

I think for the most part I agree with you on the combination of historic and modern, when done properly. My favorite example is Ted Lott's (Hi Ted! ) residence on Diamond Ave. ( http://www.rapidgrowthmedia.com/features/lott9008.aspx ) I sometimes walk or ride down Diamond just so I can check out this residence, along with the new Wealthy and Diamond mixed use project and other things in the area.

[concretepoem]

I think for the most part I agree with you on the combination of historic and modern, when done properly. My favorite example is Ted Lott's (Hi Ted! ) residence on Diamond Ave.

[GR Jackson]

A twenty year lifespan isn't bad? My windows are nearing 100 years old, as are almost all of the houses on my block. Twenty years is not an acceptable life span for any building material, hell that isn't even the length of the mortgage!!!

It also takes some serious neglect to get a old growth wood window into a condition in which it can not be repaired. Even some rotting and joint separation can be repaired by an ambitious novice The problem is most Americans in our current society do not have the ambition to take this on, it is far easier to pitch the old windows in the trash and buy new ones....and then, by golly, call themselves green because the LEED manual says it is OK.

In the future we will live in a much less flat world, one that will be far more localized and require far more skilled (and unskilled) labor. This will include the homeowner maintaining their own house, especially in regards to something as mundane as window repair. So when the window is broke Joe Homeowner will not call Acme Plastic Abstractions for a replacment, he will have to fix it, all by himself. The chumps that put in twenty year windows that can not be fixed will be looking for some old wood windows at the local landfill and crossing their fingers that they find some that fit.

[concretepoem]

Most of these houses have unfortunately have had quite a bit of neglect. I have repaired and rebuilt wood windows, but I think that it is somewhat disingenuous too call them 100 year old after wood has been replaced on them. I love historic builidings, I love the painted lady houses. I would never put vinyl in those houses, but if I was doing an ordinary house I would put some vinyl in. Quality vinyl windows will last, cheap ones will not.

[Nitro]

Ted's residence is exactly the kind of architecture you'd likely lose out on if you designated that area "Historic". Neighborhood's shouldn't be museums. They need to remain open to new interpretations of the basic concepts of simplicity, humanity and scale that are at the core of what these older housing stocks in Eastown and East Hills have to offer.

[johnleeke]

I agree with GR Town Planner:

>>>The chumps that put in twenty year windows that can not be fixed will be looking for some old wood windows at the local landfill and crossing their fingers that they find some that fit.<<<

Except that this is not in the distant future, it is already happening. Check out this story about Dana in Massachusetts, taking out cheap vinyl windows and putting wood windows back in:

<snip>

and learn more about how to save your fine old windows over at the Historic HomeWorks Forum:

<snip>

By the way, hello Nitro. I think I remember you from other forums in past years.

John

[Nitro]

By the way, hello Nitro. I think I remember you from other forums in past years.

[GRDadof3]

I agree with GR Town Planner:

>>>The chumps that put in twenty year windows that can not be fixed will be looking for some old wood windows at the local landfill and crossing their fingers that they find some that fit.<<<

Except that this is not in the distant future, it is already happening. Check out this story about Dana in Massachusetts, taking out cheap vinyl windows and putting wood windows back in:

<snip>

and learn more about how to save your fine old windows over at the Historic HomeWorks Forum:

<snip>

By the way, hello Nitro. I think I remember you from other forums in past years.

John

[PRCH]

You're not quite following along, read the post above yours. It is in the historic district.

[Mark Miller]

Ted's residence is exactly the kind of architecture you'd likely lose out on if you designated that area "Historic". Neighborhood's shouldn't be museums. They need to remain open to new interpretations of the basic concepts of simplicity, humanity and scale that are at the core of what these older housing stocks in Eastown and East Hills have to offer.

[Ted]

Ted's residence (is that the formal name now?) is indeed in a historic district!! And it is a poster child for what (IMO) can happen when a series of things within a historic district align.

1. The local historic district infill guidelines are read and interpreted by a insightful architect.

2. The Sec of Interior Standards are dutifully interpreted by said architect.

3. The insightful architect decides not to interpret what these above standards say as "let's build a replica".

4. The architect actually understands what it means to create a modern piece of architecture - because modern architecture can be as badly butchered just as traditional architecture can, maybe more so. Architectural restraint is most likely the key here.

5. The HPC interprets the standards and infill guidelines and does not mandate a "replica building", a "fake old building" or a "gay 90's theme park" (not my quote, but a wonderful description from another recent infill project.

6. And more importantly, the HPC does not try to design the building for the architect, which is not within their right. (Planning Commissions should take note of this, BTW)

Ultimately most of the success of this kind of infill is mainly on the architect and developer.

Historic Designated neighborhoods are not museums. Real people live there and they raise families there. My house is certainly no museum. It is a house, which happens to be protected from the grifters who schlock home remodeling products and the "do-it-yourselfers" who watch way too much home improvement TV, have limited skills and poor tastes when selecting products.

[Nitro]

You're beautiful, man.

I'm welling up...just like those crazy emoticons...

[concretepoem]

Ted's residence (is that the formal name now?) is indeed in a historic district!! And it is a poster child for what (IMO) can happen when a series of things within a historic district align.

1. The local historic district infill guidelines are read and interpreted by a insightful architect.

2. The Sec of Interior Standards are dutifully interpreted by said architect.

3. The insightful architect decides not to interpret what these above standards say as "let's build a replica".

4. The architect actually understands what it means to create a modern piece of architecture - because modern architecture can be as badly butchered just as traditional architecture can, maybe more so. Architectural restraint is most likely the key here.

5. The HPC interprets the standards and infill guidelines and does not mandate a "replica building", a "fake old building" or a "gay 90's theme park" (not my quote, but a wonderful description from another recent infill project.

6. And more importantly, the HPC does not try to design the building for the architect, which is not within their right. (Planning Commissions should take note of this, BTW)

[fotoman311]

A twenty year lifespan isn't bad? My windows are nearing 100 years old, as are almost all of the houses on my block. Twenty years is not an acceptable life span for any building material, hell that isn't even the length of the mortgage!!!

It also takes some serious neglect to get a old growth wood window into a condition in which it can not be repaired. Even some rotting and joint separation can be repaired by an ambitious novice The problem is most Americans in our current society do not have the ambition to take this on, it is far easier to pitch the old windows in the trash and buy new ones....and then, by golly, call themselves green because the LEED manual says it is OK.

In the future we will live in a much less flat world, one that will be far more localized and require far more skilled (and unskilled) labor. This will include the homeowner maintaining their own house, especially in regards to something as mundane as window repair. So when the window is broke Joe Homeowner will not call Acme Plastic Abstractions for a replacment, he will have to fix it, all by himself. The chumps that put in twenty year windows that can not be fixed will be looking for some old wood windows at the local landfill and crossing their fingers that they find some that fit.

[RenZone]

This post may not be on topic, but it does involve East Hills, so I wanted to make you aware:

Fundraiser for East Hills Council of Neighbors at The Green Well on Sunday, March 15 from 1