Dr. P Phillips Orlando Performing Arts Center [Phase 2 Under Construction]

[JRS1]

^^

bic, that is some nice work there. thanks for doing that.

^^

uncreativeusername, I did a comparison on googlemap, and by eyeballing it, I don't think the Arscht is much bigger if at all. if you join Arscht's two bldgs together, both centers have a similar footprint. I think Miami is fudging the numbers. They did the same thing with regard to the MBCC. They say its 1M sq ft but it's not 1M sq ft of EXPO space; it's noticeably smaller than the N/S Bldg, which has 1M sq ft of expo space and 3M sq ft gross.

Arscht's 2-block area is noticeably smaller than dpac's 2-block area, and each bldg. takes up maybe 1/2 of it's respective block. the rest is outdoor space. As for height, this thing has 4-5 levels but the overhang will be 8 levels tall, and the top of the big hall will be 10 levels tall. I don't think Arscht is that tall-- definitely not taller than that.

anyway. I'm just curious to know the real stats on both.

[RedStar25]

I understand that you say it is auto-centric because Magnolia isn't being completely removed. I disagree to an extent, because this is a ballet/symphony/opera house and large scale theater. People aren't going to be driving up that much unless there is an opening and people are being dropped off by limosine. It is possible that someone would get dropped off, but more than likely, people will drive to the parking garages and walk together as this is type of venue screams date night.

Also, the Amway Arena has a street running directly in front of it and no cars are allowed on event nights. They may close the street down on event nights just like that and leave Magnolia open during the day when regular business traffic may need the street.

Are you assuming there will be no Valet? I am totally confident the Lymo will have a stop right in front of DPAC as well.

However I have to question the pedestrian bridge over Magnolia. Isn't it the one thing that breaks up the visual the most? Especialy since there is no parking on the other side of Magnolia.

I am holding out my opinion on DPAC for now. However I think with the "glowing interior" and translucent glass mega columns one could do a lot to color the building with LED lighting. Think the waverly crown or the Vue's racing stripe.

The Architect of FUMCO made the interior white so that the stained glass would bathe the room in color. certain times of the year this effect is remarkable (with no lights on). The DPAC being a neutral color offers the opertunity to create any color/color sceam one could imagine.

As for parking I could have sworn there was going to be parking with this building. Is it underground or incorporated into one of the future buildings? I think FUMCO has rights to parking at DPAC during certain times of the week.

Edited August 27, 2008 by RedStar25

[cwetteland]

Are you assuming there will be no Valet? I am totally confident the Lymo will have a stop right in front of DPAC as well.

However I have to question the pedestrian bridge over Magnolia. Isn't it the one thing that breaks up the visual the most? Especialy since there is no parking on the other side of Magnolia.

I am holding out my opinion on DPAC for now. However I think with the "glowing interior" and translucent glass mega columns one could do a lot to color the building with LED lighting. Think the waverly crown or the Vue's racing stripe.

The Architect of FUMCO made the interior white so that the stained glass would bathe the room in color. certain times of the year this effect is remarkable (with no lights on). The DPAC being a neutral color offers the opertunity to create any color/color sceam one could imagine.

As for parking I could have sworn there was going to be parking with this building. Is it underground or incorporated into one of the future buildings? I think FUMCO has rights to parking at DPAC during certain times of the week.

I don't believe the structure over Magnolia is a "pedestrian bridge." There are meeting halls in the glass overpass. There is also a stage that faces out to the open plaza west of magnolia, I don't know if the stage is at ground or part of the overpass.

[WeNeed2Progress]

I agree with the corners needing some sort of interaction, and focal point, a "weenie" in themed entertainment architectural terms. One example that came to my mind is this conical glass spiral stairway at Roppongi Hills in Japan:

At night, the cone glows and captures your attention, below is a public plaza to into the labyrinth of a shopping mall.

I can't find better photos of it...

[Boomer136]

I don't believe the structure over Magnolia is a "pedestrian bridge." There are meeting halls in the glass overpass. There is also a stage that faces out to the open plaza west of magnolia, I don't know if the stage is at ground or part of the overpass.

The stage is at ground level, centered on the glass house thrust (don't throw stones!). I don't think there is an entrance on the west side of magnolia into the glass house, I didn't see one on any of the drawings.

[bulldogger]

Where would the valet service park your car? I could see a valet on Orange in front of the outdoor performance space / plaza and parking could be in the parking garage that CNL would be building as the base of CNL III (if that is being incorporated into new plans... haven't looked for that in some time). I haven't heard of any parking directly on the premises.

As you stated about the Lymmo, there are 2 stops on that block as it is. One on each corner. Unless they plan on extending the Lymmo south a block, those 2 stops should suffice in circulating passengers to and from parking garages throughout most of downtown. I'm sure taxi and pedicab service will pick up with the opening and subsequent shows.

[Boomer136]

Where would the valet service park your car? I could see a valet on Orange in front of the outdoor performance space / plaza and parking could be in the parking garage that CNL would be building as the base of CNL III (if that is being incorporated into new plans... haven't looked for that in some time). I haven't heard of any parking directly on the premises.

As you stated about the Lymmo, there are 2 stops on that block as it is. One on each corner. Unless they plan on extending the Lymmo south a block, those 2 stops should suffice in circulating passengers to and from parking garages throughout most of downtown. I'm sure taxi and pedicab service will pick up with the opening and subsequent shows.

City Admin Garage? Commons Garage?

[bulldogger]

If the valet guy has to run from Magnolia as a drop off with keys all the way across 2 blocks and then drive back, the wait time could add up and people will get annoyed by the service level. You could be looking at 10-15 minutes or more likely closer to 20-25 minutes during peak. I could see it working if they overstaff and use walkie talkies to a station in the garage. Either way, that's a lot of running and time consumption.

I see a lot of people parking their cars and either using the Lymmo or walking (weather permitting) from nearby garages. Some of the main points during early planning showed where all the parking garages are located and how many spaces are available within a certain distance to the PAC. This is going to make a lot of people become pedestrians when they are downtown and with more people walking around, it will start to become more and more accepted in this city. The PAC and new arena in this area is going to increase the amount of pedestrian traffic in south downtown. I see more people and therefore more retail and restaurant opportunities. I think the most used parking garage will become The Plaza and that will probably be enhanced with valet service. On show nights, The Plaza is going to be slammed.

4 years till this opens new doors of entertainment downtown. I can hardly believe how quickly the past 2 years has gone by. 2 years ago, Paramount broke ground and we are about to have a downtown Publix. It seems like yesterday.

We've heard so much about the downturn in real estate lately, but I am starting to get a buzz about downtown Orlando again.

Edited August 27, 2008 by bulldogger

[Boomer136]

If the valet guy has to run from Magnolia as a drop off with keys all the way across 2 blocks and then drive back, the wait time could add up and people will get annoyed by the service level. You could be looking at 10-15 minutes or more likely closer to 20-25 minutes during peak. I could see it working if they overstaff and use walkie talkies to a station in the garage. Either way, that's a lot of running and time consumption.

I see a lot of people parking their cars and either using the Lymmo or walking (weather permitting) from nearby garages. Some of the main points during early planning showed where all the parking garages are located and how many spaces are available within a certain distance to the PAC. This is going to make a lot of people become pedestrians when they are downtown and with more people walking around, it will start to become more and more accepted in this city. The PAC and new arena in this area is going to increase the amount of pedestrian traffic in south downtown. I see more people and therefore more retail and restaurant opportunities. I think the most used parking garage will become The Plaza and that will probably be enhanced with valet service. On show nights, The Plaza is going to be slammed.

4 years till this opens new doors of entertainment downtown. I can hardly believe how quickly the past 2 years has gone by. 2 years ago, Paramount broke ground and we are about to have a downtown Publix. It seems like yesterday.

We've heard so much about the downturn in real estate lately, but I am starting to get a buzz about downtown Orlando again.

And by the time the DPAC opens, we even may have a movie theater downtown as well. I agree about walking. I think the cloak room will be more an umbrella room. It is so suburban to think the longest walk from your car to a destination should be no longer than the walk you have to take at the grocery store or mall.

[JRS1]

by the time dpac opens, there will be a new hotel at Orange and South open as well, perhaps CNL's bldg at Orange and Anderson, almost positive those two bldgs will be open b/c the dpac people and the City want that whole block done at the same time.

so you have those two bldgs. then, there's two more fronting Rosalind.

then, you have the new Events Center already open for a whole year. and perhaps the new Hilton at Garland & South.

then, you'll have Montage #1 opened by Paramount.

and according to Disney, the new Four Seasons will join Waldorf as the newest luxury properties in the metro- I wouldn't be surprised if by then, dpac marketing hits full swing and attracts those 5-star clientele perhaps for a show or two while in town.

[GregoryMCSE]

I agree with the corners needing some sort of interaction, and focal point, a "weenie" in themed entertainment architectural terms. One example that came to my mind is this conical glass spiral stairway at Roppongi Hills in Japan:

At night, the cone glows and captures your attention, below is a public plaza to into the labyrinth of a shopping mall.

I can't find better photos of it...

I love this; it is distinctive and the glass stairway draws your attention. It is one of a kind.... a signature so to speak.

I was really hoping that Orlando's PAC would have some sort of a signature statement, some kind of visual to draw people in.... I am still so very disappointed in our design.

Edited August 27, 2008 by GregoryMCSE

[sunshine]

Does distinctively blant count as disctinctive?

[NewsDude]

When will they release much more clear and detailed renderings of the center? It really doesn tickle my feathers at all, very dull, dated, and not inspring but I am intrested as in the details of the outside facade and even better the inside halls. Architecturally OPAC looses to Miami and on par with Tampa, hopefully the street interaction is tops to the least. I was just in Miami in June and I actually like the biscayne plaza type design and pedestrian wise its pretty descent especially on the corridor in specific, but thats probaly where this airport terminal might trumph the rest with the plaza acroos the street.

[JRS1]

Arscht is nice, obviously; perhaps too abstract; depends on your preference; the pedestrian aspect of it is horrible b/c Biscayne is a very busy street, and it cuts the center in half. Magnolia on the other hand is not a thru street and can be blocked off effortlessly if needed.

Design: if the standard is that the more abstract the style, the more points you score, then yes, Arscht wins out. But other than that, Arscht has a lousy "front door". Dpac will win on that note. Dpac will have a glass front door 8 stories tall with a roof overhead the length of the block. How does Archt come close to topping that? Not even close. Arscht is illuminated at night which is real nice, but so will dpac, from at least 1/3 the facade that we know of at this point. And just b/c something has a conventional design doesn't necessarily mean its not as good or not as nice. Maybe its less "artsy" and that's what the general gripe has been.

Orientation: Crossing Biscayne on foot is never a good proposition to go from hall to hall. That design would be better suited within a park setting like the Smithsonian Mall or Grant park or Central Park for example, not on the mainland's busiest highway east of I-95. Dpac will be a single structure. Maybe that's boring.

Other stuff: Dpac will have a plaza "lawn/mall" if you will pointing to City Hall, one block away. Archt simply can't beat that. It's part of a larger complex. Arscht is isolated and is surrounded by a couple of unimproved lots for the moment and is not part of an organized/ planned sector of town or part of a complex. Dpac is/will be; it will extend City Commons eastward. Arscht's "complex" is nothing more than condo towers lining Biscayne and an expressway which bisects it from them- to the south, versus the Quantum cluster to the NE. Dpac has better placement. And dpac's plaza will be supported by the hotel on one side and the CNL bldg on the other side- but the depicted balconied sides is still under development.

Dpac will also have the multifunction space on those elevated levels above Magnolia encased in glass which extends the structure westward. Arscht doesn't have anything that dramatic. Not even close. Everything is within mostly windowless "mounds" (except for the first floor "prison windows") of step-backs on either side of the B, but the SW and NE sides do have a glass walled structure. In fact, there is nothing dramatic about Arscht except for the overall look from a distance... a great distance. Dpac will be dramatic from any angle on foot as you approach.

Both centers are/will be visible from the expressway. Dpac will be dramatic from 408 EB and WB. Easy highway access from I-4 and 408.

From what we've seen so far, dpac may be too plain on the sides, but they are still designing those elements of the center, so its a wait and see for now.

there's positives and negatives to both.

-----------------------------------------------

For the record, I'm over the "Miami" thing. I'm no longer giving projects the automatic nod just b/c they're built there, like by merely being there gives them this certain level of validity that would not be given if the same project were built elsewhere. Arscht is nice but there are a lot of things wrong with it. And just b/c its in Miami shouldn't be a reason to overlook its shortcomings and automatically assume that it was done right. And that goes for Pelli too. Who ever said he was the greatest architect in the world anyway? The proof is in the pudding-- just look at all the questionmarks the Arscht center presents with.

And as for Orlando, I think people are judging this bldg. based on a track record with the City in general, not on its own merits. I read "airport terminal" all over the place. I wish OIA had a terminal entrance like this. And I wish the OCCC has more glass on it's front door like this.

anyway, that's my long-winded $.02. take it with a grain of salt.

[bic]

Orientation: Crossing Biscayne on foot is never a good proposition to go from hall to hall. That design would be better suited within a park setting like the Smithsonian Mall or Grant park or Central Park for example, not on the mainland's busiest highway east of I-95.

How much hall-to-hall pedestrian traffic do you think there is? I doubt anybody is catching a double-feature when it comes to theatrical productions.

[RedStar25]

If the valet guy has to run from Magnolia as a drop off with keys all the way across 2 blocks and then drive back,

They would be one fit Valet team!

Arscht is nice, obviously; perhaps too abstract; depends on your preference; the pedestrian aspect of it is horrible b/c Biscayne is a very busy street, and it cuts the center in half. Magnolia on the other hand is not a thru street and can be blocked off effortlessly if needed.

Design: if the standard is that the more abstract the style, the more points you score, then yes, Arscht wins out. But other than that, Arscht has a lousy "front door". Dpac will win on that note. Dpac will have a glass front door 8 stories tall with a roof overhead the length of the block. How does Archt come close to topping that? Not even close. Arscht is illuminated at night which is real nice, but so will dpac, from at least 1/3 the facade that we know of at this point. And just b/c something has a conventional design doesn't necessarily mean its not as good or not as nice. Maybe its less "artsy" and that's what the general gripe has been.

Orientation: Crossing Biscayne on foot is never a good proposition to go from hall to hall. That design would be better suited within a park setting like the Smithsonian Mall or Grant park or Central Park for example, not on the mainland's busiest highway east of I-95. Dpac will be a single structure. Maybe that's boring.

Other stuff: Dpac will have a plaza "lawn/mall" if you will pointing to City Hall, one block away. Archt simply can't beat that. It's part of a larger complex. Arscht is isolated and is surrounded by a couple of unimproved lots for the moment and is not part of an organized/ planned sector of town or part of a complex. Dpac is/will be; it will extend City Commons eastward. Arscht's "complex" is nothing more than condo towers lining Biscayne and an expressway which bisects it from them- to the south, versus the Quantum cluster to the NE. Dpac has better placement. And dpac's plaza will be supported by the hotel on one side and the CNL bldg on the other side- but the depicted balconied sides is still under development.

Dpac will also have the multifunction space on those elevated levels above Magnolia encased in glass which extends the structure westward. Arscht doesn't have anything that dramatic. Not even close. Everything is within mostly windowless "mounds" (except for the first floor "prison windows") of step-backs on either side of the B, but the SW and NE sides do have a glass walled structure. In fact, there is nothing dramatic about Arscht except for the overall look from a distance... a great distance. Dpac will be dramatic from any angle on foot as you approach.

Both centers are/will be visible from the expressway. Dpac will be dramatic from 408 EB and WB. Easy highway access from I-4 and 408.

From what we've seen so far, dpac may be too plain on the sides, but they are still designing those elements of the center, so its a wait and see for now.

there's positives and negatives to both.

-----------------------------------------------

For the record, I'm over the "Miami" thing. I'm no longer giving projects the automatic nod just b/c they're built there, like by merely being there gives them this certain level of validity that would not be given if the same project were built elsewhere. Arscht is nice but there are a lot of things wrong with it. And just b/c its in Miami shouldn't be a reason to overlook its shortcomings and automatically assume that it was done right. And that goes for Pelli too. Who ever said he was the greatest architect in the world anyway? The proof is in the pudding-- just look at all the questionmarks the Arscht center presents with.

And as for Orlando, I think people are judging this bldg. based on a track record with the City in general, not on its own merits. I read "airport terminal" all over the place. I wish OIA had a terminal entrance like this. And I wish the OCCC has more glass on it's front door like this.

anyway, that's my long-winded $.02. take it with a grain of salt.

excellent points JRS1

[JFW657]

From what I could see in the renderings & video the design is just fine.

It looks like a PAC & I'm certain that it will effectively function as one. I don't really understand what some people were expecting. It's a PAC in a medium sized city. It's seems like according to some if you don't hear a choir of angels singing & see a ray of light shine down on it from heaven everytime you look at it, it's somehow not good enough.

I am actually pleasantly surprised as I was figuring this being Orlando we'd get something strange & odd looking.

Like that Frank Gehry designed Disney Music Hall in Los Angeles.

That thing is just butt ugly.

[Boomer136]

I think if it wasn't $340 million, and more of a budget design, then OK, it is the best you can do for that. But at the price that this thing costs, you really got to get every pennies worth. that money can be used so many places more effectively. And when I look at this, I can see that in 10 years it will be ready to be torn down.

You don't have to go so over the top as a Gehry design. Some people think it is either a glass box OR some metal shape. Teh Bass performance hall in Fort Worth is very traditional in design. The example above is part of a tower in Japan, it is actually a museum that serves as the base of that slyscraper behind it. It makes a nice blending of builsings.

Again, it's not the outside. We have a shot at a world class acoustic space. The only thing I see that would stand in the way besides poor construction execution of the design, is that the seat count is a bit low for world class. Imagine the Chicago, Philadelphia, or Berlin playing in our city. Perhaps I'm too optimistic, but I think it could happen.

[JRS1]

what is the seat count again?

[mrh3]

From what I could see in the renderings & video the design is just fine.

It looks like a PAC & I'm certain that it will effectively function as one. I don't really understand what some people were expecting. It's a PAC in a medium sized city. It's seems like according to some if you don't hear a choir of angels singing & see a ray of light shine down on it from heaven everytime you look at it, it's somehow not good enough.

I am actually pleasantly surprised as I was figuring this being Orlando we'd get something strange & odd looking.

Like that Frank Gehry designed Disney Music Hall in Los Angeles.

That thing is just butt ugly.

Butt ugly? Don't you think that's a little harsh.

[sunshine]

From what I could see in the renderings & video the design is just fine.

It looks like a PAC & I'm certain that it will effectively function as one. I don't really understand what some people were expecting. It's a PAC in a medium sized city. It's seems like according to some if you don't hear a choir of angels singing & see a ray of light shine down on it from heaven everytime you look at it, it's somehow not good enough.

I am actually pleasantly surprised as I was figuring this being Orlando we'd get something strange & odd looking.

Exactly, the design looks like a medium size city type of PAC done with relatively low budget. It is not iconic nor inspiring if most of us can only think of airport terminal or the convention center when we see the design. Miami PAC, Disney concert hall, Milwaukee Art meseum....are iconic architecture masterpiece that can represent their city on their own. Orlando is trying to be a world calss city and this design certainly do not justified that.

As for the interior acoustic and stuff......I am not acoustic or music professional related type of person....do you guys really can tell the slight difference in acoustic? I have saw quite a few show in diffrent theatre around the country but whenever the show start, i just concentrate on the performance. As long as I can hear the words or music...I am fine. I assume most people are like me unless you are very musically trained.

[cwetteland]

Exactly, the design looks like a medium size city type of PAC done with relatively low budget. It is not iconic nor inspiring if most of us can only think of airport terminal or the convention center when we see the design. Miami PAC, Disney concert hall, Milwaukee Art meseum....are iconic architecture masterpiece that can represent their city on their own. Orlando is trying to be a world calss city and this design certainly do not justified that.

As for the interior acoustic and stuff......I am not acoustic or music professional related type of person....do you guys really can tell the slight difference in acoustic? I have saw quite a few show in diffrent theatre around the country but whenever the show start, i just concentrate on the performance. As long as I can hear the words or music...I am fine. I assume most people are like me unless you are very musically trained.

When designing a concert hall there are only 3 things that matter. Acoustics, Acoustics and Acoustics! WRT Miami PAC, I've driven by it a few times and thought .. what a hideous blob, I hope they got the acoustics right because the outside sucks.

Anyway, IMO Acoustics do matter more than anything else. The incomplete and sketchy renderings presented so far are hard to judge, but blow the Miami PAC. A big, out-of-shape box by the freeway in a concrete wasteland.

Edited August 28, 2008 by cwetteland

[RedStar25]

Exactly, the design looks like a medium size city type of PAC done with relatively low budget. It is not iconic nor inspiring if most of us can only think of airport terminal or the convention center when we see the design. Miami PAC, Disney concert hall, Milwaukee Art meseum....are iconic architecture masterpiece that can represent their city on their own. Orlando is trying to be a world calss city and this design certainly do not justified that.

As for the interior acoustic and stuff......I am not acoustic or music professional related type of person....do you guys really can tell the slight difference in acoustic? I have saw quite a few show in diffrent theatre around the country but whenever the show start, i just concentrate on the performance. As long as I can hear the words or music...I am fine. I assume most people are like me unless you are very musically trained.

In the end the acoustics will be what makes or breaks the DPAC. Carrnige Hall in NYC isn't much to look at on the outside but it is one of thee sought out performance halls in the country and every one has herd of it. 95% of its draw is due to its acoustics.

I do not think one has to be musically trained to pick up on good or bad acoustis. Remeber amplification is not acoustis...

Untill we see more I think many of us are just speculating for the worst... as we ussualy do. (tho that is not totally without reason)

[Boomer136]

what is the seat count again?

1700-1800 in the acoustic hall,

2700-2800 in the amplified hall

around 300 for the 'community' hall

Nothing is finalized, and even in design to as-builts there are always seat variations. Also, with the acoustic space, there are many variations of seating capacity depending on how the hall needs to be configured.

By comparison, the Carr maxes out at 2518, 2434 if the thrust is used or the full pit is in, and 2486 (I think) with half the pit in.

Something on a strange note, I found this the other week. Scamming ticket sales I guess, the writing style sounds like the guys from African who tell me my Uncle left me a lot of money.

About Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre

Each year Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre has heavily-publicized plaies playing thanks to a revered reputation. Those productions endure for runs that last months, sometimes years, that allow for an abundance of productions to be scheduled each month. Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre artistic performances generally have revered actors and actresses like a David Rounds or a Kelly Anise Daniells. Occasionally, a new actor will deliver a jaw-dropping rendition during a dramatic piece.

Noah Colangelo purchased the Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre in 1975 and transformed it from an hospital after the first owner sold it to him when the owner sold it. The owner based the layout of the playhouse on a venue he liked in Spain. Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre is now one of the most popular halls around the globe to watch live performances.

Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre is guaranteed to have plaies every week and people are always demanding more tickets. promises to have seats to look at to those productions, no matter how hard to find the tickets happen to be. Together with the tickets, the website provides a handy schedule of all the big dramatic piece at Bob Carr Performing Arts Centre, along with a current seating chart and helpful map of the surrounding area that can be used to spot a place to catch a quick snack after the performance.

The picture that goes with it is pretty funny, too.

http://www.ticketspecialists.com/venues/bo...rs.htm#moreLink

[bulldogger]

Looks like RaceRock.