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Dr. P Phillips Orlando Performing Arts Center [Phase 2 Under Construction]


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It doesn't serve as a social space - you get out of your car and walk into the building, or walk out of the building and directly into the car.

I think you're missing the whole block wide plaza in front of the place. Magnolia is a drop off but between there and City Hall is a plaza and there is an open stage to play outdoor concerts.

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I understand that you say it is auto-centric because Magnolia isn't being completely removed. I disagree to an extent, because this is a ballet/symphony/opera house and large scale theater. People aren't going to be driving up that much unless there is an opening and people are being dropped off by limosine. It is possible that someone would get dropped off, but more than likely, people will drive to the parking garages and walk together as this is type of venue screams date night.

Also, the Amway Arena has a street running directly in front of it and no cars are allowed on event nights. They may close the street down on event nights just like that and leave Magnolia open during the day when regular business traffic may need the street.

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these are all great ideas. and good points.

Magnolia ends at Anderson, so it will never be that much of an automobile generator as Biscayne is in Miami, to draw a comparison. Bulldogger is right; I see them shutting it down at times during events and making people loop around Rosalind. But, being that Anderson is also an I-4 exit, it can become a huge automobile generator. But, as we know, Magnolia's perverbial (?) sack was snipped when the Lymmo route was placed there and it's the least traveled N/S road in DT based on what I've seen.

I don't see the street as that much of a negative though. I agree with Cloudship in that you don't come towards it, rather, from the side. If the plaza was a street instead that ended in a traffic circle like most of the nice hotel resorts we have, then that would fix that element. But either way, you're bifurcating the public space but from another direction.

I'm not sold, just yet. But I understand the utility in the design now.

The beauty of having the entrance on magnolia, is that the Courthouse is at the north end of Magnolia.

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I don't know about leaving out the hotel. I think they're trying to hit a critical mass around City Hall with buildings and keep the only open space the plaza in front of the DPAC. They said CNL III will have a skywalk across Anderson to a parking deck. I think they should just build the building above Anderson instead (ala the bldg at Lenox in Atlanta over GA 400). It will be cool... It will attract attention that there's something cool going on there (which there is... the PAC). Why not... they are making a new entrance to the City Hall garage along Anderson, and the OUC Bldg. is on a slope...

I was thinking, since they will have pronounced skywalks across Magnolia, then perhaps they can extend architectural ornamentation (whatever that is) all the way to Orange, so you know that is part of the DPAC when you are on Orange... maybe the balconied side bldgs. will do that. I don't know...

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There is a video on Orlando sentinel that show more........ it kind of looks like the convention centre. It also sort of looks like the Lynx bus station.

I dont know how to link it

Lynx Central Station is edgier. More whimsical.

Edited by mrh3
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"Oh come on", the OPAC does not look that bad. I beg to differ. We haven't seen all of the rendering from it.Later on when it get's built, you might change your opinion. Thank God we are getting a PAC, Event Center and Citrus Bowl. Some cities don't have the opportunity to have what we are getting.

Yes and no tc. Camillo made a very astute observation a while back regarding public architecture in Orlando as a whole be overwhelmingly mediocre. This just further emphasizes the point. Orlando/Orange County should perhaps make these design competitions open to global compeition. Anyway, why only one design? Most design competitions I've ever seen for things of this nature have multiple forms and the public votes on which they prefer. At least that's how the WTC project was executed along with myriad others globally.

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Am I missing something here? The negative feedback seems a bit unfounded excluding a few legitimate improvement suggestions from Jaybee.

I am thrilled they have decided not to disrupt the street grid on Magnolia. If anything, that in itself proves the architects were pedestrian-friendly. Additionally, the Orange Ave plaza looks to be a unique addition downtown--i'm especially fond of the rectangular boxed in effect of the hotel/office space. It is hard to draw too many other conclusions from this until we see more detailed renderings.

I think people wanted organic rather than linear lines. As a creative center, Orlando lends itself more tocurvilinear design and the choice of color is overwhelmingly safe in a place where the sky can explode into brilliant purples, blues, reds, yellows, any night of the year. (Although, I would not lose a wink of sleep if the green was removed from the Orange County History Center). So, I think that's the overwhelming reason for the tepid reaction. It's a boring, safe building that doesn't really challenge anything-the hallmark of conservative architecture.

I will say this, though, The "Power Elite" of Orlando is in general more conservative than Miami and perhaps Atlanta. This building will ultimately be to satisfy their tastes and maybe Orlando should compare itself to a place like Tampa or Austin to get a better gauge of where its architectural revolution should lie.

Edited by mrh3
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I think people wanted organic rather than linear lines. As a creative center, Orlando lends itself more tocurvilinear design and the choice of color is overwhelmingly safe in a place where the sky can explode into brilliant purples, blues, reds, yellows, any night of the year. (Although, I would not lose a wink of sleep if the green was removed from the Orange County History Center). So, I think that's the overwhelming reason for the tepid reaction. It's a boring, safe building that doesn't really challenge anything-the hallmark of conservative architecture.

I will say this, though, The "Power Elite" of Orlando is in general more conservative than Miami and perhaps Atlanta. This building will ultimately be to satisfy their tastes and maybe Orlando should compare itself to a place like Tampa or Austin to get a better gauge of where its architectural revolution should lie.

OIA's Terminal 2 (the newest one) has really nice architecture; OCCC N/S does too; OCCC West's West Entrance is real nice; Winnie Palmer, FH South, Dynetech, and Vue are anything but ordinary. There's more around town.

I went to the display and spoke with a rep at length about the dpac. they are working on a lot of elements to this that hasn't been discussed yet; it really isn't an ordinary facility. materials, lighting, etc... all still in the works.

As for Tampa, what exactly are they building over there that should be a barometer of where our arch. revolution should lie? Austin, I can't say b/c I haven't been paying attention, but tampa?

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OIA's Terminal 2 (the newest one) has really nice architecture; OCCC N/S does too; OCCC West's West Entrance is real nice; Winnie Palmer, FH South, Dynetech, and Vue are anything but ordinary. There's more around town.

I went to the display and spoke with a rep at length about the dpac. they are working on a lot of elements to this that hasn't been discussed yet; it really isn't an ordinary facility. materials, lighting, etc... all still in the works.

As for Tampa, what exactly are they building over there that should be a barometer of where our arch. revolution should lie? Austin, I can't say b/c I haven't been paying attention, but tampa?

My exactly. I was thinking about relative age of the cities and population. I am open to suggestions if you think I'm missing the mark.

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I think people wanted organic rather than linear lines. As a creative center, Orlando lends itself more tocurvilinear design and the choice of color is overwhelmingly safe in a place where the sky can explode into brilliant purples, blues, reds, yellows, any night of the year. (Although, I would not lose a wink of sleep if the green was removed from the Orange County History Center). So, I think that's the overwhelming reason for the tepid reaction. It's a boring, safe building that doesn't really challenge anything-the hallmark of conservative architecture.

+1

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It doesn't even have to be organic. doesn't even have to be particularly contemporary for that matter. A really good art modern (streamlined) building would work. Of course even that would still be a bad design if it didn't address the placement issues.

I am thinking it is less dull as opposed to more dated. That look is already getting old hat. I don't think it will age well at all. I would like to see something with more life, more charm. Something that 35 years down the road the city will look at and still cherish as a building and not just for what is done there.

then I think you would need something along the lines of the Pelli center in Miami. it looks like an architectural icon from a distance.

as for placement, I think that's arguable. the only other place I can think of DT would be the 400 N. block which would have more visibility, but when they build this thing, they said that they are going to time it's opening with the other projects going up on site so they all open at the same time. the place will be unrecognizeable.

You all need to go see the model next time they offer a viewing. this thing will have architectural exterior as they say on the north and south sides. it is boxy, but other than emulating the Carnival or Disney centers, how else do you make it? At least this has an impressive front porch and lobby, mind you; the lobby will be stunning as depicted, b/c the walls of the concert halls will rise upward in the lobby at a curved angle outward, if you will, while you walk below. Glass will surround you otherwise. It will be nice.

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I am not talking about placement of the site, I am talking about placement of the buildings on the site. Yes the interior is dramatic - why doesn't that carry over to the exterior? Why not angle those outward?

I think there are many, many different ways to take this. Yes this may be a bit beyond what Orlando can handle, but have you seen Calatrava's Milwaukee Art Museum? Or if you are really daring (which I don't think Orlando is ready for but would look nice on the other side of the highway) the Valencia Opera House. There's a life to those buildings, solidarity and motion.

so,you are saying a mid-western city like Milwaukee is edgier than Orlando...that is sad if true.

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I am not talking about placement of the site, I am talking about placement of the buildings on the site. Yes the interior is dramatic - why doesn't that carry over to the exterior? Why not angle those outward?

I think there are many, many different ways to take this. Yes this may be a bit beyond what Orlando can handle, but have you seen Calatrava's Milwaukee Art Museum? Or if you are really daring (which I don't think Orlando is ready for but would look nice on the other side of the highway) the Valencia Opera House. There's a life to those buildings, solidarity and motion.

I never noticed the striking similarity between Atlanta's proposed symphony center and the Valencia Opera House before.

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Cloudship,

It looks like the Valencia Opera House takes up the space of our entire 2 blocks in which we will try to put a hotel, office building, 3 auditoriums and other buildings. That doesn't even get close to the amount of space around that building that is just covered in concrete.

Looking at those buildings, are they pedestrian friendly? It looks like a pedestrian journey to get to them. Much more walking involved than crossing the street.

You seem to be saying how the design of our PAC doesn't do well at anything.

---------------

How many public buildings fit the perfect mold of possibly lasting the test of time (which you don't know until possibly decades later), are pedestrian friendly, and put you at awe as you approach the building from all angles?

That question goes out to everyone.

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Cloudship,

It looks like the Valencia Opera House takes up the space of our entire 2 blocks in which we will try to put a hotel, office building, 3 auditoriums and other buildings. That doesn't even get close to the amount of space around that building that is just covered in concrete.

Looking at those buildings, are they pedestrian friendly? It looks like a pedestrian journey to get to them. Much more walking involved than crossing the street.

You seem to be saying how the design of our PAC doesn't do well at anything.

---------------

How many public buildings fit the perfect mold of possibly lasting the test of time (which you don't know until possibly decades later), are pedestrian friendly, and put you at awe as you approach the building from all angles?

That question goes out to everyone.

The U.S. Capitol, Washington, DC.

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After doing some thinking last night, I came to the conclusion that the building does follow a great tradition of mid-20th century modern classicism. It really does take on the forms of Lincoln or Kennedy Center.

Kennedy Center 1

Kennedy Center II

Kennedy Center III

Lincoln Center I

Lincoln Center II

Lincoln Center III

Edited by mrh3
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lol.

honestly, I have no idea what is the best way to go on this. I think everyone brings up valid point. I actually like terminals and the OCCC look. I'm a little weird like that though.

I think that if they can glass in more of the bldg. from the sides, then that would make it more inviting perhaps.

here's a question: the Miami PAC they say has over 500k ft sq. of space and dpac has 330k ft sq. is Miami counting gross sq ft between the two bldgs? It doesn't seem like it's that much larger from an aerial view. Do we have a seat count for ours yet?

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After reconsidering it and seeing the pics of more radical designs, although I'm not thrilled with this design it may be a better fit for us. Those more provactive designs just wouldn't cohese (is that a word?) with the surounding area downtown. Something like Miami or ATL's PAC look more in place on I-Drive or downtown Disney and I think that's something we're trying to avoid. We don't necessarily want a building like that disrupting the character of, for better or worse, what is downtown architecture. However, I would have no objection to something with a little more "WOW" to it.

Edited by OCF
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lol.

honestly, I have no idea what is the best way to go on this. I think everyone brings up valid point. I actually like terminals and the OCCC look. I'm a little weird like that though.

I think that if they can glass in more of the bldg. from the sides, then that would make it more inviting perhaps.

here's a question: the Miami PAC they say has over 500k ft sq. of space and dpac has 330k ft sq. is Miami counting gross sq ft between the two bldgs? It doesn't seem like it's that much larger from an aerial view. Do we have a seat count for ours yet?

I'd assume a big part of the sq. footage difference is because DPAC's two halls are sharing lobby and concession space, where as Arscht is split between the two buildings.

I also agree on the idea of glassing in more of the building - I think this thing the mere scale of this thing will make it wild to walk up to and into, but it definitely feels one-sided. Then again, building materials haven't been announced yet, so I'm hoping there's still a chance for interesting textures to the building as a whole.

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Cloudship,

It looks like the Valencia Opera House takes up the space of our entire 2 blocks in which we will try to put a hotel, office building, 3 auditoriums and other buildings. That doesn't even get close to the amount of space around that building that is just covered in concrete.

Looking at those buildings, are they pedestrian friendly? It looks like a pedestrian journey to get to them. Much more walking involved than crossing the street.

You seem to be saying how the design of our PAC doesn't do well at anything.

---------------

How many public buildings fit the perfect mold of possibly lasting the test of time (which you don't know until possibly decades later), are pedestrian friendly, and put you at awe as you approach the building from all angles?

That question goes out to everyone.

I'm pretty much with you on this one Bulldogger ... instead of surrounding the PAC with concrete to make it a people place. The plan is to use existing garages around town so the city itself becomes your pedestrian plaza. Add some more restarants near the PAC and I can smell it now. ... this design allows the entire downtown area to be the people place. When I drive down Orange on a Friday or Saturday night it's amazing how many people are on the streets on foot. It's great. This adds to that and extends it south.

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I took a minute to superimpose the site plan for the new PAC onto a satellite image of downtown to make it easier to see how the plan will interact with adjacent buildings.

pacsuperimpositionmh9.jpg

Nice Work. Looking at that satelite image, there is very little surface parking around the CBD. The designs could be upgraded but at least that area's desnity is even more improved.

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