Jump to content

New Hotel for the River Market


skirby

Recommended Posts

I think some people tend to forget that despite the small niche of us urbanites, Little Rock is a suburban-minded town. The truth of this matter is many on the city board probably live out in McMansions on Chenal and could care less about the "hipness" of the River Market. It might also be an Arkansas thing. It has to do with the good ole' boy network as you can see being played out here. Fort Smith is even more anti-development than Little Rock. NWA on the other hand is too progressive when it comes to development.

Agreed. That's more-or-less what I meant by "...only in Little Rock..."

Link to comment
Share on other sites


  • Replies 165
  • Created
  • Last Reply

I don't think the potential loss of a single $20 million hotel development constitutes a decline. If NLR gets the Aloft, then good for them. There was never a hotel envisioned (that we know of) for that corner, until this hotel proposal popped up. The proposal is forcing many folks to think about how the River Market should develop over the next 10 - 15 years. Taking stock and re-evaluating is healthy for the district, even if it means the Aloft opportunity goes elsewhere.

We all want Main Street to develop.... why is no one urging the Aloft to go on Main St.

I agree. I can tell you though that if LR passes on this hotel and it is built in NLR that will be taking my business north of the river. Not because of the hotel itself but because of what passing on it will represent. If LR isn't going to want to progress and give us an even better RM because of cronyism and shortsightedness then I will support NLR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If LR isn't going to want to progress and give us an even better RM because of cronyism and shortsightedness then I will support NLR.

I believe that you are saying that, to deny the proposal would be cronyism because Warren Stephens and Bobby Roberts don't support it. Also, it is shortsighted on their part to not see the vision of having this hotel on a very specific piece of earth in the River Market.

The POV from the opposite side could easily and more justifiably say the exact same thing. It could be considered cronyism to violate a planned development (River Market District) for Walter Hussman and Jimmy Moses. Doing so could also be shortsighted because it would mean the City has no backbone to resist a proposal anytime someone waves money under their nose. I might get excited about a $40 - $50 million hotel, or a unique hotel like the 21c. But, a $20 million Aloft is not something that I think the River Market District is "missing." Perhaps somewhere else in LR or NLR.

This is the same hotel that was proposed on a different site, which had even more complexity. That site was outside the River Market. I don't recall anyone on this board suggesting, at that time, that the proposal would be better in the River Market.

What does this say? To me, it says that there are likely other viable spots this hotel could go. The Hampton Inn found a site that is non-controversial. The Hampton Inn was widely welcomed. I also think this example undermines the claim that Stephens is somehow afraid of competition. I don't buy that argument.

Again, I think the best thing to come out of this will be a concerted effort to re-visualize the future of the River Market District. This should be a deliberate process, not a series of haphazard, knee-jerk reactions to developers fanning dollars under the noses of our City leaders. That is the ideal.

Personally, I think we'll fall short of the ideal.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that you are saying that, to deny the proposal would be cronyism because Warren Stephens and Bobby Roberts don't support it. Also, it is shortsighted on their part to not see the vision of having this hotel on a very specific piece of earth in the River Market.

The POV from the opposite side could easily and more justifiably say the exact same thing. It could be considered cronyism to violate a planned development (River Market District) for Walter Hussman and Jimmy Moses. Doing so could also be shortsighted because it would mean the City has no backbone to resist a proposal anytime someone waves money under their nose. I might get excited about a $40 - $50 million hotel, or a unique hotel like the 21c. But, a $20 million Aloft is not something that I think the River Market District is "missing." Perhaps somewhere else in LR or NLR.

This is the same hotel that was proposed on a different site, which had even more complexity. That site was outside the River Market. I don't recall anyone on this board suggesting, at that time, that the proposal would be better in the River Market.

What does this say? To me, it says that there are likely other viable spots this hotel could go. The Hampton Inn found a site that is non-controversial. The Hampton Inn was widely welcomed. I also think this example undermines the claim that Stephens is somehow afraid of competition. I don't buy that argument.

Again, I think the best thing to come out of this will be a concerted effort to re-visualize the future of the River Market District. This should be a deliberate process, not a series of haphazard, knee-jerk reactions to developers fanning dollars under the noses of our City leaders. That is the ideal.

Personally, I think we'll fall short of the ideal.

This is not the same hotel except in name only proposed on a different site. The Hampton Inn is a different class of hotel and Stephens should not object to it. The Aloft would offer more competition, at least that is what Stephens thinks.

Again, the RM was started to develop business in the area not to restrict it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is not the same hotel except in name only proposed on a different site. The Hampton Inn is a different class of hotel and Stephens should not object to it. The Aloft would offer more competition, at least that is what Stephens thinks.

Again, the RM was started to develop business in the area not to restrict it.

I don't believe the Aloft will or can compete with the Capital or the Peabody. I saw those floor plans. I just stayed in a Courtyard by Marriot with exactly the same floor plans. There does not appear to be anything special about it. How will this hotel differentiate itself from the Hampton Inn Suites?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe the Aloft will or can compete with the Capital or the Peabody. I saw those floor plans. I just stayed in a Courtyard by Marriot with exactly the same floor plans. There does not appear to be anything special about it. How will this hotel differentiate itself from the Hampton Inn Suites?

I don't know but you might want to ask Stephens. He is the one worried about it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe the Aloft will or can compete with the Capital or the Peabody. I saw those floor plans. I just stayed in a Courtyard by Marriot with exactly the same floor plans. There does not appear to be anything special about it. How will this hotel differentiate itself from the Hampton Inn Suites?

Well, I guess until you stay in one, you can't really comment. Since I have, I will.

The (any) Hampton Inn is about as pedestrian as they come. The aLoft is, while admittedly "trendy", very Modern in decor, very cutting edge with technology, and cater to a more cosmopolitan crowd. And no, the floor plans are not at all the same.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Well, I guess until you stay in one, you can't really comment. Since I have, I will.

The (any) Hampton Inn is about as pedestrian as they come. The aLoft is, while admittedly "trendy", very Modern in decor, very cutting edge with technology, and cater to a more cosmopolitan crowd. And no, the floor plans are not at all the same.

There is a good recap in Arkansas Business. McGibbon developed the Hampton Inn and Courtyard by Marriot. They're also the ones who want to develop the Aloft. The article mentions that Roberts has a desire for a 300 seat auditorium to serve the ASI, Clinton Library and Heifer. The part of the report that strikes a chord with me the most is, "Moses still shakes his head in wonder that the third new hotel project in 22 years for downtown Little Rock would become a contentious proposal. " 22 years seems like a long time and only two new hotels.

I've mostly been on the fence as to whether the Aloft should or should not be built on that spot. I strongly agree with Stephens position that, "We generally just don't like the whole approach to putting in overlay districts and then throwing out the plans for the next latest-and-greatest project to come along." However, I am off the fence now. I don't think an auditorium is the highest and best use of that property. Not even close. Someone should build an auditorium as part of a structure, not the principle function of the structure.

A hotel could very well be the highest and best use for that spot. I hope that the ground floor retail offers a food-entertainment venue that fits the block. I spent some time on the opposite side of Clinton Ave today. I just Looked at the facades and the heights of the buildings. It will not be simple to integrate a new first floor facade with Sticky Fingers and Flying Fish and the ASI. If it looks like Courtyard by Marriot, it fails. I think there are a number of ways it could miss the mark. If it does miss the mark, then I will degrade the integrity of the block. The building facades would alternate (starting from the Courtyard by Marriot) New-Old-New-Old. I don't believe a lack of cohesive design in such a small space would be very desirable.

I know that the ASI building has the very modern (new) entrance... but it is exceptional to behold. That is what caught me today. I just wanted to stare at it. The Aloft will not be able to hold a candle to that level of sophistication. But, it could use first-floor design elements to ensure that it will not lower the integrity of the block.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

BREAKING NEWS!

The McKibbon Hotel Group will be moving the proposed location of the 7-story Aloft hotel to the corner of Commerce and 3rd Street (assuming NE corner - if so, this is a GREAT alternate site, just across from the Capitol Commerce Center...helps bridge to the new Hampton Hotel and other high rises south of the district, and stretches activity further south).

Here's the even stranger aspect - yet quite good: McKibbon still ALSO proposes to develop the original site proposed for the Aloft at the corner of Commerce and President Clinton Avenue as a 4-story, mixed-use project with retail on the first floor, a multi-screen theater on the second floor, and offices and/or residential on the top 2 floors.

Overall, this is a great win-win for everyone. I think the new location for the Aloft is a great alternate - again, stretching activity south, and yet still provides urban infill along President Clinton Avenue WITH a theater (hope that works well....).

Both are projected to start construction in about 9 months (4th quarter '09). The 4 story mixed-use is planned to start then, but they commented that market conditions will ultimately dictate this.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BREAKING NEWS!

The McKibbon Hotel Group will be moving the proposed location of the 7-story Aloft hotel to the corner of Commerce and 3rd Street (assuming NE corner - if so, this is a GREAT alternate site, just across from the Capitol Commerce Center...helps bridge to the new Hampton Hotel and other high rises south of the district, and stretches activity further south).

Here's the even stranger aspect - yet quite good: McKibbon still ALSO proposes to develop the original site proposed for the Aloft at the corner of Commerce and President Clinton Avenue as a 4-story, mixed-use project with retail on the first floor, a multi-screen theater on the second floor, and offices and/or residential on the top 2 floors.

Overall, this is a great win-win for everyone. I think the new location for the Aloft is a great alternate - again, stretching activity south, and yet still provides urban infill along President Clinton Avenue WITH a theater (hope that works well....).

Both are projected to start construction in about 9 months (4th quarter '09). The 4 story mixed-use is planned to start then, but they commented that market conditions will ultimately dictate this.

I'm assuming that is the parking lot across from the Capitol Commerce Center. That lot provides parking for EDS, so I wonder where those workers will park now.

I'm glad to see that they found an alternate site for the hotel. I wonder if Stephen, the Peabody and DoubleTree still oppose the development since they feell that they haven't made back the money on their recent renovations. I also wonder if they oppose the new hotel proposed for dowtown NLR. It will be competition for them as well.

Glad to see that another mixed used building will be built in the district, but I don't know how well a movie theater will do downtown. I don't know if I would want to live above a movie theater either

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BREAKING NEWS!

The McKibbon Hotel Group will be moving the proposed location of the 7-story Aloft hotel to the corner of Commerce and 3rd Street (assuming NE corner - if so, this is a GREAT alternate site, just across from the Capitol Commerce Center...helps bridge to the new Hampton Hotel and other high rises south of the district, and stretches activity further south).

Here's the even stranger aspect - yet quite good: McKibbon still ALSO proposes to develop the original site proposed for the Aloft at the corner of Commerce and President Clinton Avenue as a 4-story, mixed-use project with retail on the first floor, a multi-screen theater on the second floor, and offices and/or residential on the top 2 floors.

Overall, this is a great win-win for everyone. I think the new location for the Aloft is a great alternate - again, stretching activity south, and yet still provides urban infill along President Clinton Avenue WITH a theater (hope that works well....).

Both are projected to start construction in about 9 months (4th quarter '09). The 4 story mixed-use is planned to start then, but they commented that market conditions will ultimately dictate this.

I agree, this is a terrific outcome from this. I think the alternate hotel site will prove more accessible. I wonder if the theatre will be an art theater, first run, a theater with bar/pub, etc. It will definitely be a new concept for LR.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, this is a terrific outcome from this. I think the alternate hotel site will prove more accessible. I wonder if the theatre will be an art theater, first run, a theater with bar/pub, etc. It will definitely be a new concept for LR.

Well at least the lot next to Arkansas Studies will not fall into the hands of a self-important "public servant" so he can waste more tax payer money. I'll bet the famous temper came out after the news.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

BREAKING NEWS!

The McKibbon Hotel Group will be moving the proposed location of the 7-story Aloft hotel to the corner of Commerce and 3rd Street (assuming NE corner - if so, this is a GREAT alternate site, just across from the Capitol Commerce Center...helps bridge to the new Hampton Hotel and other high rises south of the district, and stretches activity further south).

Here's the even stranger aspect - yet quite good: McKibbon still ALSO proposes to develop the original site proposed for the Aloft at the corner of Commerce and President Clinton Avenue as a 4-story, mixed-use project with retail on the first floor, a multi-screen theater on the second floor, and offices and/or residential on the top 2 floors.

Overall, this is a great win-win for everyone. I think the new location for the Aloft is a great alternate - again, stretching activity south, and yet still provides urban infill along President Clinton Avenue WITH a theater (hope that works well....).

Both are projected to start construction in about 9 months (4th quarter '09). The 4 story mixed-use is planned to start then, but they commented that market conditions will ultimately dictate this.

The theater is a good move. The downtown area needs one as right now Riverdale is all it has and that doesn't cut it. Can't wait for it to open. Maybe they should make it more than just a regular theater, but more like a concept they have in Dallas and in OKC where they serve alcohol during the movie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If the Aloft is built and is a success will the empty Acixom property at 3rd and Commerce come into play? It is my understanding that this property was for the development of a second Acixom building. Will Acixom need the space since they sold their Riverdale building or will they go for an offer they can't refuse?

The Aloft will be located where the cars are parked just south of the ramp in the left of this picture. The Acixom property is the park like area at the top on the ramp.

p1030756wx9.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well at least the lot next to Arkansas Studies will not fall into the hands of a self-important "public servant" so he can waste more tax payer money. I'll bet the famous temper came out after the news.

I would wager Roberts and the CALS were angered by this, I think his real intent was to get that land themselves. The hotel group gave them a solution they couldn't argue with, they have no case to do so and left Stephens and the Peabody Group with no recourse to prevent the hotel from being built.

I really don't see how anyone could stop the hotel group from doing exactly as they want.

This was kind of an ugly situation, pitting a lot of the people who helped downtown become what it is against one another. Moses Tucker and this hotel group have played a huge role in building the River Market District.

Public investment in Alltel Arena, the Convention Center, Ark History Museum and CALS Main Library helped start the whole process but now the last thing we need are public facilities competing with large private ventures that would generate tax revenue rather than spend it.

If Roberts wants to expand why doesn't he do something worthwhile with the Cox Building? It's pretty bare inside and doesn't serve much of a purpose right now and it's a terrific old building. I'd start by ripping those awful 80s-themed banners off of the side of the building.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would wager Roberts and the CALS were angered by this, I think his real intent was to get that land themselves. The hotel group gave them a solution they couldn't argue with, they have no case to do so and left Stephens and the Peabody Group with no recourse to prevent the hotel from being built.

I really don't see how anyone could stop the hotel group from doing exactly as they want.

This was kind of an ugly situation, pitting a lot of the people who helped downtown become what it is against one another. Moses Tucker and this hotel group have played a huge role in building the River Market District.

Public investment in Alltel Arena, the Convention Center, Ark History Museum and CALS Main Library helped start the whole process but now the last thing we need are public facilities competing with large private ventures that would generate tax revenue rather than spend it.

If Roberts wants to expand why doesn't he do something worthwhile with the Cox Building? It's pretty bare inside and doesn't serve much of a purpose right now and it's a terrific old building. I'd start by ripping those awful 80s-themed banners off of the side of the building.

Maybe. The last article I read state that Robert's wanted a theater to serve the CALS and the Presidential Library. Doesn't the proposed 4 story building contain a theater?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roberts wanted an "Auditorium" for lectures, presentations, etc., not a movie theater.

Depending on how it is built, those are not mutually exclusive. I can see why he would want an auditorium in that area (Clinton speaker series). But, it would be near impossible to support a auditorium that isn't used often. A dual-use movie theater / lecture venue is a better idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Depending on how it is built, those are not mutually exclusive. I can see why he would want an auditorium in that area (Clinton speaker series). But, it would be near impossible to support a auditorium that isn't used often. A dual-use movie theater / lecture venue is a better idea.

Yes, they are mutually exclusive the way Roberts envisioned it. Furthermore, rightly or wrongly, a public entity doesn't have to cash flow something of this nature. Certainly nothing about the library system is fiscally self-sufficient.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, they are mutually exclusive the way Roberts envisioned it. Furthermore, rightly or wrongly, a public entity doesn't have to cash flow something of this nature. Certainly nothing about the library system is fiscally self-sufficient.

Assuming both venues are completed, then the creative tension between the two sides influenced the situation to come up with something better for Little Rock.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

when should the Aloft construction start?

To bad it isnt going on the main drag. oh well. its LR.

I felt the same way originally - that the arguments against placing it on Clinton Avenue were baseless, if not entirely disingenuous. However, having given it some thought, I think the idea of moving it south 2 blocks is really a good opportunity to stretch activity south and begin new development - there will also be synergy with the new Hampton. I think it's all good.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 months later...

Regrettably, The McKibbon Hotel Group announced yesterday that it is placing the aLoft hotel, as well as the separate, planned mixed-use retail development on Clinton Avenue on "indefinite" hold. Very strange timing...to put this on hold just as the economy is beginning to recover, yet previously publicly promote it during the worst of the economic dip late last year, first quarter of this year? They are the developer/owner of both of the two new River Market Hotels, the Courtyard Marriot and the new Hampton Inn...so this makes me question how well those hotels are actually doing.

Regardless, any way you cut it, this is extremely disappointing. I really expected the aLoft to add one more level of panache and activity to the district.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Regrettably, The McKibbon Hotel Group announced yesterday that it is placing the aLoft hotel, as well as the separate, planned mixed-use retail development on Clinton Avenue on "indefinite" hold. Very strange timing...to put this on hold just as the economy is beginning to recover, yet previously publicly promote it during the worst of the economic dip late last year, first quarter of this year? They are the developer/owner of both of the two new River Market Hotels, the Courtyard Marriot and the new Hampton Inn...so this makes me question how well those hotels are actually doing.

Regardless, any way you cut it, this is extremely disappointing. I really expected the aLoft to add one more level of panache and activity to the district.

I wonder if the hotel would not have been under construction if the original location would have been allowed on President Clinton Ave?

In today's AR Dem/Gaz Jimmy Moses says that retail development in Little Rock is dead. He says that it might be ten years before things look better. Financing is the major problem for new developments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder if the hotel would not have been under construction if the original location would have been allowed on President Clinton Ave?

In today's AR Dem/Gaz Jimmy Moses says that retail development in Little Rock is dead. He says that it might be ten years before things look better. Financing is the major problem for new developments.

Very true statement about the retail in the LR market...it's unquestionably overbuilt. So that applies to the mixed-use development on Clinton Avenue, but what does that have to do with the hotel?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site you agree to our Terms of Use and Privacy Policy. We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.