Norfolk-Southern Intermodal Yard Relocating to Airport

[cltbwimob]

I had wondered if NS was considering adding more track in those areas and turning it (the whole rail yard) into a major classification yard, or if they were going to give it over to the city like you said. I can't find any articles or anything that even make mention of it.

[kermit]

Based on the images of the BLE thoughtfully linked to today by Tozmervo it appears that about half of this space will be used for Parkwood station, LRT row and the lynx storage and service facility. (see this image -- warning its large! http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/BLE/Documents/Public%20Meeting%20Sheet_1%20-%202011%200927%20-%20RE.pdf )

The bulk of the remaining space falls into the 'doughnut hole' between the LRT and the remaining rail yard. CATS has only noted one access point across the tracks in the image above (and that is labeled 'storage yard access'). This image does suggest that interesting reuse of this space may require some adjustments to CATS visions.

[kermit]

I don't know as much about the NS Crescent Corridor Fast Freight initiative as I would like. While I think its very likely that the terminal will increase the appeal of Charlotte as point for truck freight distribution I wonder about its role in generating new, local, rail freight. Clearly the new red line plan will require some new rail freight generators for the financing plan to work -- would proximity to the new intermodal terminal make industrial sites along the red line tracks more attractive?

While its tempting to say yes, I fear that any business dealing with intermodal shipments on the red line would find it faster (and probably cheaper given loading costs) to send the boxes to the intermodal terminal via truck than using the time-limited freight rail service. I hope I am wrong about this, if proximity to the NS intermodal terminal becomes a valuable site characteristic then (assuming success for the new Red line financing strategy) the mixed use financing model for commuter rail could also be applied to the Piedmont Northern route from CLT to Gastonia.

EDIT: I am also not sure NS would want a bunch of local freights using their main to deliver to the terminal. I suspect their fast freight initiative involves long-distance rail shipments combined truck only delivery from terminals.

[southslider]

^An added irony is that the Red Line currently connects to the NS mainline (also NCRR) at the current intermodal yard location between Uptown and NoDa. In other words, freight trains using the Red Line would have less overlap with the NS mainline, if the yard were to remain.

However, what kind of freight only travels the Red Line from a Charlotte intermodal yard, no matter where it is located. In other words, a truck already traveling to the intermodal yard, no matter where it's located, could just continue to a North Corridor location. Instead, the yard should provide more train-to-train connectivity for freight than truck-to-train.

Otherwise, any Red Line freight traffic will have to be traveling much longer distances than just within the Charlotte metro. And in that case, scheduling already needs to be coordinated for much longer sections of the mainline, not just the segment leading to Charlotte's intermodal yard.

Ultimately, NS is in the business to run more freight. Hence, they should have built-in incentive to find economical ways (more so scheduling than capacity-building) to accommodate more paying customers on their lines. I would think NS would treat the Red Line not too differently than other spurs found all up and down their mainlines.

[ajfunder]

I personally believe the intermodal yard is a great idea, both NS, the airport, and Charlotte seem very supportive of it. It is located next to I-485 so truck traffic near center city can be reduced, it is along a major rail mainline, and it is located at an airport. Don't forget companies like UPS have started shipping some long distance packages by rail in recent years (does FedEx?). UPS uses trucks, planes, and trains, all three will be available at this new facility, I could see this becoming a major hub for not only intermodal freight but for package distribution.

Alex

[cltbwimob]

^^^The intermodal yard being located on airport land that would otherwise sit vacant makes a lot of sense. Who knows, it may even spur other developments in the vicinity of the airport, and add more air cargo. I think a good example of how the intermodal yard can integrate itself with other airport related developments is Huntsville International Airport...They have 2 cargo airlines that Charlotte does not have (Cargolux and Atlas Air), an intermodal yard, and the Jetplex industrial park which is basically a high tech industrial district with all sorts of companies rooted in the aerospace and defense sectors.

[thetrick]

Putting the Inter-modal yard at the Airport is more about using a large chunk of land where otherwise it would have no use and getting good access to the highways. There will be little connection of freight between the inter-modal yard and the airport, the kind of things you ship on a train is simply not the same type of cargo you would put on a plane, except for some international shipments, and those would be minor.

I may have misunderstood what people were saying, but I would like to clarify that inter-modal yards are the termination point for shipments. This is where the containers are removed from the train and delivered by truck to the customer, and containers are delivered by truck from the customer to the terminal. This terminal will have no impact on the red line as far as new customers, because ALL containers are deviled to the customer by truck.

The existing yard at North Tryon will most stay they same baring some dramatic increase in non-containerized shipping. They might see an increase in locomotive servicing due to the increase in traffic in the area.

[palmetto75]

This terminal will have no impact on the red line as far as new customers, because ALL containers are deviled to the customer by truck.

I've been out of the logistics game awhile, but in theory if the CLT intermodal yard becomes a major transfer point it could take volume away other hubs such as Atlanta or maybe even Charleston/Norfolk. In that case it would put more volume on the redline.

[thetrick]

True we might get additional traffic from other cities, but it won't go over the Red Line, let me explain why.

The Red Line is also known as the "O-line", it runs from Charlotte to Barber Jct (Barber Jct is between Statesville and Salisbury). There are no through trains, as there is no traffic on that line that moves from Barber Jct to Charlotte. All traffic on the O-Line originates in either Charlotte or Salisbury and is delivered by local freights. Any through traffic moves along the mostly parallel "S-line". The "S-Line" is the NCRR/NS main line, and is what the Piedmont, Amtrak and all north-south freights out of Charlotte use it is CTC controlled, heavy welded rail rated for 70+ mph and mostly double tracked, and is being upgraded to all double track in the next few years. The O-line is old lightweight single track and is not signal (CTC) controlled. The O-line has hundreds of grade crossings and, it's bridges are old. The Red line upgrades are only for about half the route. There is simply no business reason to upgrade the track north of Moorsville. NS can already serve it's existing customers as it is, if there were new large customers they would upgrade only where required to meet those demands. The only even remotely plausible reason I could see for through traffic on the O-Line would be if there was a huge surge in traffic from the west and NS wanted to bypass the S-Line. But most likely future traffic demands will come from the east as the widening of the Panama Canal will bring more container shipments inland from east-coast ports.

P.S. the S-Line is the NS main line from Columbia SC to Greensboro, NC via Charlotte.

See this map http://www.bytrain.org/docs/RailMapMar2011_Web.pdf It is a great refrence for North Carolina rail roads.

[southslider]

^According to that map, a good argument to bypass the S-Line (NS/NCRR) for the O-Line (NS/Red Line) would be to have a more direct freight connection between Charlotte and Winston-Salem. Hmm, maybe Iredell County isn't the only potential partner long-term.

[kermit]

NS is looking at some substantial investments around Winston-Salem to reopen the line. There is a large trestle over Peters Creek that is no longer useable and the line also blocks the entrance to Haines mall. The current condition of the ROW around Winston plus the soundness of the WSSB line connecting Winston to the NCRR in Lexington makes it dificult for me to imagine significant through traffic on the O.

Slightly off topic: while I like the mixed use plan for the red line I am having trouble seeing the rationale for freight users to pay for upgrades sine the line already carries daily freight. What would freight users gain from the improvements that they don't already have?

[thetrick]

I figure it's about time for a Red Line thread so I started one.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php/topic/53102-red-line-regional-rail/

[Otto]

In regards to NS Intermodal flow....The intermodals on the NS Mainline run from New Orleans through Birmingham, and Atlanta to the south and on to the DC area and Rutherford Yard in Harrisburg, PA (which is the main NS distribution center for the Northeast). Intermodals coming from Atlanta also include freight transferred from UP and BNSF in Dallas (via Kansas City Southern) and Memphis, respectively. The Mainline is also NS' main north-south corridor along the east coast so you have traffic destined for Florida via Macon, GA and Jacksonville. Charlotte's intermodal yard is a major distribution center for NS in the Carolinas with Greensboro playing a secondary role. NS just recently initiated direct intermodal service b/n the port at Norfolk and Greensboro. The growth in NC's crescent (Raleigh to Charlotte) will continue to fuel intermodal service along the NS mainline.

In regards to the O-line, there is minimal local service. The chances of intermodal service utilizing the O-line is highly unlikely. It would require a significant investment in track and signals in order to make the line efficient. I am pretty sure that there is no CTC along the O-line, minimial sidings, etc. NS has plenty of capacity along the mainline and there is truly no need to route traffic on the O-line. If something disrupts traffic along the mainline, NS can re-route traffic through Knoxville, Chattanooga, and Roanoke via Atlanta.

The selection of the airport as a location for the new yard probably has more to do with NIMBYs than anything else. BNSF is catching hell trying to construct a new intermodal facility at the Port of LA (see Southern California International Gateway). It's hard for folks to complain about noise or lights when they live next to an airport. The location also gets the trucks off of N. Tryon Street and Matheson Ave. Also, I believe that at one time CATS were looking to use the vacated intermodal yard as a maintenance facility for the BLE.

[cltbwimob]

O-line freight will most likely be bulk cargo such as chemicals or raw materials rather than intermodal freight. When most people talk of intermodal freight, they are speaking of containers which is what the intermodal yard at the airport will process in addition to handling the needs of integrated freight carriers such as UPS and FedEx. It is unlikely that the Red/O-line will see much local container traffic coming on or off of the rails hence the new intermodal yard will not likely be a great service to O-line customers. However since the reopening of the line will represent a fourth point from which freight traffic using NS railroads enters the rail yard, I was wondering if it would make sense for NS to use the land on which the intermodal yards currently reside plus some other land around the yard and turn the Charlotte yard into a major classification yard. I don't know if it would; I have limited knowledge of freight rail operations.

[kermit]

^ I think Linwood yard (just north of Salisbury) is serving NS's needs for freight classification well. I can't imagine they see a need for an expanded (and still space constrained) yard in Charlotte.

[thetrick]

Look s like construction on the intermodal yard at the airport will start this month. (near the bottom)

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/02/03/2980840/global-entry-program-to-speed.html

I also noticed on the NS facebook page they are hiring. The railroads are a good bellweather of the economy. They want to get a jump on their capital improvements before it gets too buisy, but they still try and hold off as long as posible for big projects like this.

TH

[ajfunder]

I heard the date to break ground was February 13th (monday), I wonder if that is true or not.

[kermit]

Five plus years after this thread was started, the intermodal terminal is scheduled to open on December 9th.

http://www.progressiverailroading.com/prdailynews/news.asp?id=38538

[15895]

Ignorant question;

Will this grow operations of Norfolk southern or is it simply a relocation, same amount of jobs, same amount of traffic, status quo?

[dubone]

Allows for growth and synergy of adding airfreight to the mix rather than just trucking which was constrained at the NoDa site.

[TotalLamer]

I wouldn't really say it has anything to do with airfreight synergy... that's not really a thing.  It was just an available plot of land large enough to accommodate an intermodal yard within the city and adjacent to their mainline.

 

NS's current intermodal site is absolutely TINY.  I mean it makes our intermodal ramp at Pinoca Yard look like some kind of goliath, which is about as far from the truth as can be.

[thetrick]

I wouldn't really say it has anything to do with airfreight synergy... that's not really a thing.  It was just an available plot of land large enough to accommodate an intermodal yard within the city and adjacent to their mainline.

 

NS's current intermodal site is absolutely TINY.  I mean it makes our intermodal ramp at Pinoca Yard look like some kind of goliath, which is about as far from the truth as can be.

That plus the need to be located near some decent highway access. The NoDa site is a nightmare getting trucks in and out. It's really going to help having a damn near dedicated access to 485.