New Fayetteville High School plans

[zman9810]

The Fayetteville School District held a public meeting to discuss the new plans last night. The meeting was mainly a reivew of what has happened up to this point with a question and answer session afterwards. It was mentioned that when desgn plans are further along that a 3d model will be constructed to help sell the idea to the public.

The district seems to be underestimating the amount of resistance to a large millage increase. The public input that has led to the plans put forward has been from district residents that most likely would support whatever plans that were developed. There are a lot of potential voters who haven't commented on the plans but will show up at the polls in September. Many of those voters will have no real interest in a new high school but are very interested in how their property is taxed. When that 3d model is presented and it looks nothing like what most people will expect in a new high school it will be even harder to convince them to vote yes.

[zman9810]

Here's a possible Plan B that would result in a millage increase that would have a better chance of passing and still serve the long term needs of Fayetteville High School.

The plan would have two phases- the first would be to add classroom space with a new cafeteria. It would still use the small learning communities concept but instead of putting them in smaller buildings scattered about campus would involve constructing a single building on the large parking lot east of the administration building. The learning communities could be placed on separate floors of a multi-story building thus making more efficient use of the limited space on campus and a more energy efficient space. The building would look more like what would be expected for the amount of money spent and so more likely to gain approval. It could be designed with a center courtyard that would let more light into the building and become a gathering space for the students. Security would be enhanced with a design like this also. The cafeteria would be put on the space now occupied by Stone Street and also connnect to the 1991 addition which would would be kept for more classroom space.

The second phase would be a separate project that would be started after the first phase is built and paid for. By making it a separate bond issue the costs would be spread out over a longer period and a lower millage increase would be needed. As I'm not a financial expert I don't know the best way that that part of it would work but I imagine the financing company would. This phase would include a new sports arena, performing arts center and some of the other non-classroom ideas that are wanted. Because the first phase building took up less space there would be more room for parking, more green space and more options on where to site the gym and arts center.

The drawback is that it would take longer to have a new campus but by speading it out over time we could have a overall better facility. A plan like this would be much better than the present course of a likely millage defeat and nothing being built.

[Snaple4]

Looks like we will have a property rate proposal this fall... I think it is a little backwards and early for this but they understand what the situation is and have more resources at their disposal. I hate to say it but I will vote for the proposal, 5 or 6 mils. I just hope they understand what kind of fight they are in for and that they all are actually in 100%. I guess I need to write an opinion to the paper now, stupid school board people and their hasty decisions.

Also, this might make Fayetteville less competitive in attracting high end commerce or industry....

For my second edit.... Try looking at this PDF http://www.arcommunities.org/taxes/property/Washington.pdf It has some useful maps about milage rates and income and all. From 03 but useful

[zman9810]

Looks like we will have a property rate proposal this fall... I think it is a little backwards and early for this but they understand what the situation is and have more resources at their disposal. I hate to say it but I will vote for the proposal, 5 or 6 mils. I just hope they understand what kind of fight they are in for and that they all are actually in 100%. I guess I need to write an opinion to the paper now, stupid school board people and their hasty decisions.

Also, this might make Fayetteville less competitive in attracting high end commerce or industry....

For my second edit.... Try looking at this PDF http://www.arcommunities.org/taxes/property/Washington.pdf It has some useful maps about milage rates and income and all. From 03 but useful

Great link- thanks. Those maps help explain why NWA districts don't get as much help from the state government as other parts of the state do.

I will also vote for whatever millage increase is asked for but from what I have read and heard there are a lot of people who will not. Between those who are adamantly against property taxes and those who are in an economic pinch right now it will be tough to get it passed. The fact that the plans don't look like what many people imagine a new school would look like will play a factor also.

The plan to refinance the district's bonds will certainly help if it drops the increase down to less than 3 mills. The example that keeps being given of the amount of extra taxes on a $166,000 house isn't a good indicator of what most people will face. Even with the downturn in housing values the typical house value in the Fayetteville school district is much more than that. While there doesn't seem to be an organized opposition to the millage increase yet the closer we get to election time the more likely there will be and other examples of the effect will be put forth.

[Snaple4]

http://www.nwaonline.com/articles/2009/06/...schoolboard.txt

The comments are the more important part of this link... If this was a proper assessment of the voters then the tax would be voted down. The school board trying to pass the tax this year was a horrible idea. Did they not think about the implications of their actions?

I am a sucker for education. I would much rather risk waisting money on something for our children and our future than other things our gov thinks it needs (our city isn't that bad but the state is).

[zman9810]

http://www.nwaonline.com/articles/2009/06/...schoolboard.txt

The comments are the more important part of this link... If this was a proper assessment of the voters then the tax would be voted down. The school board trying to pass the tax this year was a horrible idea. Did they not think about the implications of their actions?

I am a sucker for education. I would much rather risk waisting money on something for our children and our future than other things our gov thinks it needs (our city isn't that bad but the state is).

Thanks for the link- those comments reflect a lot of what is being said all over Fayeteville. A 5 mil increase doesn't seem to have a very good chance and the plan chosen doesn't help it's chances.

It could be that the shcool board has received so much criticism for being slow to take action that they feel they have to have an election this year. The school board president was a major backer of moving the location so this could also be a way to try and bring up that debate again.

[Mith242]

Guess it's official now. They'll be trying to get a 4.9 mill passed to finance $113 Mil in bonds. In this plan they will not be trying to keep the 1991 school addition. Which I can see, if you're going to go to this amount of trouble why not fix everything up and give the school a better appearance. Of course the problem is getting the mill increase to pass. The current economy isn't likely to help open people's wallets either. I'd really like to see this get passed though even if it means higher taxes. With so many other NWA cities building new high schools I hate to see Fayetteville get left behind. Fayetteville wants to get more 'green' businesses to locate here and such. You'd hate to see perhaps some people's perception of the high school being 'top class' possibly affect some people's decision on moving here.

[zman9810]

Very good article in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette about the new school plans and their costs. It lays out how much more it costs than it might could and why it costs so much more. The comparisons to the neighboring school districts illustrate what can be done for much less money. What was that saying about having golden tastes on a silver budget?

The one statement about the plans being what the community wants will be shown as true or not when the election is decided.

ADG article

[Mith242]

Very good article in today's Arkansas Democrat Gazette about the new school plans and their costs. It lays out how much more it costs than it might could and why it costs so much more. The comparisons to the neighboring school districts illustrate what can be done for much less money. What was that saying about having golden tastes on a silver budget?

The one statement about the plans being what the community wants will be shown as true or not when the election is decided.

ADG article

Everybody keeps wanting to compare the costs of FHS to other NWA high schools. But I don't think you can make that comparison. I believe every other NWA high school was built in an empty lot. Costs are going to be higher at FHS no matter what because you're having all the extra difficulties of massive renovating while school is still going on. Not only do you not have an empty lot, which means you have to tear down building to build the new. You have to do it all in a way that allows the high school to keep functioning. If people are that concerned with costs then you might as well throw a new FHS out on the outskirts of the city where all you have to worry about it building on an empty field. I realize people want to reduce costs as much as possible. But if we're going to go ahead and do this why not try to build the best high school we can? Should Fayetteville citizens be happy with building a high school that doesn't set the bar higher than other NWA high schools?

[zman9810]

Everybody keeps wanting to compare the costs of FHS to other NWA high schools. But I don't think you can make that comparison. I believe every other NWA high school was built in an empty lot. Costs are going to be higher at FHS no matter what because you're having all the extra difficulties of massive renovating while school is still going on. Not only do you not have an empty lot, which means you have to tear down building to build the new. You have to do it all in a way that allows the high school to keep functioning. If people are that concerned with costs then you might as well throw a new FHS out on the outskirts of the city where all you have to worry about it building on an empty field. I realize people want to reduce costs as much as possible. But if we're going to go ahead and do this why not try to build the best high school we can? Should Fayetteville citizens be happy with building a high school that doesn't set the bar higher than other NWA high schools?

Well, I don't think it's as much about having something better than the other districts as it is about building a facilty that will serve the students and community well but also have a reasonable cost. We need plans that don't call for a millage increase that has little chance of passing- at least that is the impression a lot of people seem to have. The single building concept involves a much smaller physical footprint that would cause much less disturbance during construction and be cheaper- especially if only classroom and cafeteria space is built now and the arts center and gym is built later. Just keeping the 1991 addition would knock off $10 million of the price tag as it is now. I guess for me it's less about trying to keep up with the Jones than it is about having a workable solution to having a new school. The one comparison about the Harber High having a per student cost over $11,000 less than these plans just drives home the high price of what has been put forth.

[zman9810]

The campaign to pass a millage increase is begining in earnest. A group called Vote for a Stronger Fayetteville Campaign Committee has been formed and has about 40 members. This is for the 4.9 millage increase set for an election Sept. 15.

I hope the millage increase passes and will be voting for it myself. I have serious doubts as to whether it will pass or not. The timing is off- asking for more money during the deepest recession in five decades is not a good idea. The plans themselves seem to have been developed with little consideration of cost. The argument that they were developed with input from the community is weak. The charrette of around 100 people that gave that input is a tiny representation of the community and came from those who most likley would support whatever plans were put forward. I wonder how many of those were even of voting age. The event was a good way to get public input but the ideas developed there should have been a small part of what Concordia considered.

I don't know the details of the communication between the district and Concordia or exactly what instruction the district gave them but it seems the plans were developed without regard to what would be the most viable option in an election. This will make for a very hard sell that will require a detailed explanation on why this plan is what Fayetteville needs.

[Mith242]

The campaign to pass a millage increase is beginning in earnest. A group called Vote for a Stronger Fayetteville Campaign Committee has been formed and has about 40 members. This is for the 4.9 millage increase set for an election Sept. 15.

I hope the millage increase passes and will be voting for it myself. I have serious doubts as to whether it will pass or not. The timing is off- asking for more money during the deepest recession in five decades is not a good idea. The plans themselves seem to have been developed with little consideration of cost. The argument that they were developed with input from the community is weak. The charrette of around 100 people that gave that input is a tiny representation of the community and came from those who most likely would support whatever plans were put forward. I wonder how many of those were even of voting age. The event was a good way to get public input but the ideas developed there should have been a small part of what Concordia considered.

I don't know the details of the communication between the district and Concordia or exactly what instruction the district gave them but it seems the plans were developed without regard to what would be the most viable option in an election. This will make for a very hard sell that will require a detailed explanation on why this plan is what Fayetteville needs.

I agree with you and I'm also for the millage. But I also agree with you that it's going to be pretty tough to pass and I certainly won't be surprised if it doesn't. I do think that this is the best plan even if it isn't the most likely to get passed. But I don't want to see this as a waste of time. If they do manage to somehow get it passed then great and it was worth the effort obviously. But if it doesn't then I guess we'll have to go back to the drawing board and compromise to get costs down.

[slyder1]

It seem like they need to scale back the plans in order to pass this with the voters. I really like the current plans for the Fayetteville High School, but I just hope that with this renovation comes a better partnership between the UA and the high school.

[zman9810]

The school board has decided to shop around for a new architect and construction manager although who gets the jobs won't be decided by price, oddly enough. Evidently state law says the selection is to be by qualifications only. The two companies that the district has been using under a construction management contract could still be chosen but the board thinks it may sit better with the voters if they give other companies an opportunity and also because the present contract doesn't specifically cover the high school project. If the companies asking for the work are equally qualified I hope it is okay to go with the lower price then or the attempt at openness back backfire.

There will be a proposed model of the new school on display at the public library starting next week. The UA Community Design Center constructed it and along other models by university architecture students it should be on display by Wednesday in the media and magazine section of the library. It will be interesting to see how the model goes over with the voting public.

[zman9810]

It seems the school district is struggling to make the case for the high school project and required millage increase. Last week they had to ask the Stronger Fayetteville Campaign Committee to remove a rendering from their website of what the school might look like for fear that it might be misrepresenting the project. This week it was revealed that the millage increase ballot will show $115,825,000 as the bond issue instead of the $113 million figure that has been put forth as the price of the new school. The extra $3 million will be for costs of the issue. The ballot will also show the length of the issue as 35 years instead of 30.

There is now an organized oppositon to the millage increase. Arkansas Unite NWA, has begun a campaign called Just Say No to rally against the increase. They have a Facebook page as an online presence and you need a Facebook account in order to view it.

[Mith242]

It seems the school district is struggling to make the case for the high school project and required millage increase. Last week they had to ask the Stronger Fayetteville Campaign Committee to remove a rendering from their website of what the school might look like for fear that it might be misrepresenting the project. This week it was revealed that the millage increase ballot will show $115,825,000 as the bond issue instead of the $113 million figure that has been put forth as the price of the new school. The extra $3 million will be for costs of the issue. The ballot will also show the length of the issue as 35 years instead of 30.

There is now an organized opposition to the millage increase. Arkansas Unite NWA, has begun a campaign called Just Say No to rally against the increase. They have a Facebook page as an online presence and you need a Facebook account in order to view it.

It's a shame but at this point I think I'd be surprised if it passes. The way everything has been handled I think is turning off some people. It was going to have a hard enough time getting passed in the current economy. But I think there's still some people mad about it being kept in the current location and some mad because they're sticking with one school instead of two schools and so on. Then you start having problems with different numbers coming out and some people using a rendering that hasn't been approved and so on. I can still hope it will pass, but as I said earlier I'd be surprised.

[zman9810]

It's a shame but at this point I think I'd be surprised if it passes. The way everything has been handled I think is turning off some people. It was going to have a hard enough time getting passed in the current economy. But I think there's still some people mad about it being kept in the current location and some mad because they're sticking with one school instead of two schools and so on. Then you start having problems with different numbers coming out and some people using a rendering that hasn't been approved and so on. I can still hope it will pass, but as I said earlier I'd be surprised.

Most of the opposition seems to be about the price tag and the timing during a deep recession. If they had waited a year and went with a less expensive plan I think it would have good chance of passing. I actually haven't heard or read anything about the location being a problem but have heard some diehards wanting two smaller schools and even some not wanting the 9th grade included in the high school. At this point I guess they are too far along to reconsider timing and costs..

[zman9810]

I'll add that if we are going to ever have a new school we need to consider some issues resolved. The one or two high schools, adding the ninth grade and location have been debated to a point where they have been settled as well as they ever will be.

The question now is have we designed a plan that the majority of the community will support and vote for a millage increase to build.

[Snaple4]

Does anyone have a copy of the proposed mill increase or know if it will expire at the end of its usefull life?

[zman9810]

Does anyone have a copy of the proposed mill increase or know if it will expire at the end of its usefull life?

I don't think the ballot is finalized yet- I imagine it won't be until just before time to vote.

I don't think there is a sunset clause- that would be a good selling point if there was. The school district would be using it to gain support for the millage increase. There have been cases where the millage collected has been reduced in the past but I haven't seen anything about that being the case with this. Good question- looks like it's time for some research.

The district has stubbed it's toe again- one of the strongest supporters of the new school and one of the best known figures in Fayetteville public school history has resigned just weeks before the election. Athletic Director and Assistant Superintendent Dick Johnson left for what can only be called vague reasons after meeting with the new Superintendent Vicki Thomas. It will be intereresting to see what comes of all this.

edit- looks like it will end in 30-35 years when the bond issue is paid off.

[zman9810]

This one of the exhibits at the Fayetteville Public Library of ideas for a new Fayetteville High School. There are several models on display and no crediting information about them but they are by University of Arkansas undergraduate architecture students with one model by the UA Community Design Center. This particular model shows how it is possible to have an amazing new school without spreading many buildings over the entire campus. The design of this building would remove many of the topography issues and provide spectacular architecture, more green space and additional parking. It has the added bonus of an ampitheater at the top of the hill where the large parking lot is now. While the exact location of the building might not be possible due to the existing building it is a great idea that might be considered one day.

The orientation of this is looking from the south from MLK Blvd. A 'tour' of the exhibits is scheduled for Saturday, August 22 at noon by UA students and staff.

[zman9810]

Anyone wanting to vote in the millage election has be be registered by Monday, Aug. 17th. You can vote early (the only way to go ) starting Sept 8 with the election taking place Sept 15th.

I read where one supporter said that this would be the only chance to have a new high school- that is obviously a campaign mesage and not how things reallly are. There will be a new high school and most of the difficult decisions have been made - there will be one school, it will include the ninth grade and be at the present location. Choosing to have the election this year was ill advised and bringing forth plans that are too expensive was the deal breaker. If the millage increase fails it will be time to look at ways to scale back the the physical plant itself while keeping the essentials that will ensure that the students get a great education. That is the priority- the students' education- not keeping up with some other school or having a 'trophy' faciity. In a couple of years when the economy is back in a growth cycle it will be time to try for a millage increase again.

The way to keep from having a new high school is to bring up again the debates about one or two schools, the ninth grade addition and the location. That will ensure a new school is not built. The supporters of the present plan need to keep their focus and not get sidetracked and lose some of the support they have now.

[Mith242]

Anyone wanting to vote in the millage election has be be registered by Monday, Aug. 17th. You can vote early (the only way to go ) starting Sept 8 with the election taking place Sept 15th.

I read where one supporter said that this would be the only chance to have a new high school- that is obviously a campaign message and not how things really are. There will be a new high school and most of the difficult decisions have been made - there will be one school, it will include the ninth grade and be at the present location. Choosing to have the election this year was ill advised and bringing forth plans that are too expensive was the deal breaker. If the millage increase fails it will be time to look at ways to scale back the the physical plant itself while keeping the essentials that will ensure that the students get a great education. That is the priority- the students' education- not keeping up with some other school or having a 'trophy' facility. In a couple of years when the economy is back in a growth cycle it will be time to try for a millage increase again.

The way to keep from having a new high school is to bring up again the debates about one or two schools, the ninth grade addition and the location. That will ensure a new school is not built. The supporters of the present plan need to keep their focus and not get sidetracked and lose some of the support they have now.

Like you said, the bad thing is if this millage doesn't pass then we're going to go through that big mess again. While in some ways it might be nice to readdress some of those issues I think it's going to end up as another big mess. I hate to think of it as a 'trophy' school. But Fayetteville has always placed a lot of emphasis on education since it's early days. The reason the U of A is located here is because the city fought hard for it and beat out other cities. While the students needs do come first, I would also like to have one of the best if not the best high school facility in the area. Like an affirmation of the city's importance on education. At least that's the way I see it.

[zman9810]

Like you said, the bad thing is if this millage doesn't pass then we're going to go through that big mess again. While in some ways it might be nice to readdress some of those issues I think it's going to end up as another big mess. I hate to think of it as a 'trophy' school. But Fayetteville has always placed a lot of emphasis on education since it's early days. The reason the U of A is located here is because the city fought hard for it and beat out other cities. While the students needs do come first, I would also like to have one of the best if not the best high school facility in the area. Like an affirmation of the city's importance on education. At least that's the way I see it.

I think I understand your postion and it is shared by others in the community. If I understand, you see the new school as having an educational purpose but also a symbolic value. To me the paramont reason for the new school is it's educational purpose. The symbolic value will be shown in the quality of education and graduates that the school produces. There are some who see the new school as a community center, which I also don't think is it's purpose. I think the consideration of the symbolic value is the primary reason the cost of the plan is so high. As it is, the cost seems to be the primary focus of opposition to the plan and millage increase and the supporters of the plan have put the resolved issues beind them.

I will be voting for the millage increase and think the plan put forth is very attractive- it is just not viable and is ill timed. I originally was for two schools and against the additiion of the ninth grade but in the spirit of compromise and concern for the education of the students put those views aside. I think that is what many others have done and with a plan that has a lower cost and at a later date many of those opposing the millage increase will drop that opposition.

[Snaple4]

How Buildings Affect Student Achievement to Be Focus of First Lecture in 2009-10 Series

The fall's first speaker in an education reform lecture series at the University of Arkansas will address whether money spent on school buildings tends to affect student achievement. Locally, the topic is particularly timely as Fayetteville voters consider a millage proposal to raise funds for the construction of a new high school. With the recent release of federal stimulus money to help schools, though, the question has national ramifications, too.

Steven A. Peterson, a professor of politics and public affairs at Pennsylvania State University-Harrisburg, will speak at noon Friday, Aug. 28, on "Building Construction Expenditures and Student Performance." The lecture is free and open to the public. Reservations are requested for a light lunch served with the lecture.

Peterson, who directs the School of Public Affairs at Penn State Harrisburg, has authored or co-authored 20 books a a nd more than 100 publications. In the paper he will present for the lecture, Peterson compares the effects of school construction expenditures with other possible uses of school resources to improve student achievement, including raising teacher salaries and administrative decentralization.

Voters in the Fayetteville School District will go to the polls Tuesday, Sept. 15, to decide whether to approve a 4.9-mill property tax increase to fund construction of a new high school. The added 4.9 mills of property tax would generate $113 million for the projected $110 million facility. An appointed committee is reviewing qualifications submitted by a number of architectural firms seeking to build the new school.

All lectures will be held at noon in the Graduate Education Building, Room 343. RSVP for a light lunch at http://www.uark.edu/ua/der/Lecture_Series/RSVP.html.

CONTACTS:

Jay P. Greene, chair, education reform

College of Education and Health Professions

479-575-3162

[email protected]

Heidi Stambuck, director of communications

College of Education and Health Professions

479-575-3138

[email protected]