New Fayetteville High School plans

[Mith242]

We don't have things as good as you might think. Our school system is good, but by Arkansas standards. Having recently traveled to dozens of high schools in the northern Dallas and Houston areas, I can immediately tell you our facilities are not competitive at all for the direction new high schools are headed in similarly sized cities/suburbs. Take Prosper high school for example, located in Prosper, Texas, a town of about 7,000 that is projected to grow rapidly. They built a new high school projected for about 2,000 students (590,000 sg. ft) at a cost of $113.5 million. The school is amazing- a collegiate level library, impressive technology, top notch athletic facilities including an indoor football facility, and state of the art classrooms. Read about it, as well as the expansions in McKinney and the Northwest ISD: http://asumag.com/dailynews/prosper-texas-...chool-20090831/ . Believe me, these people have prioritized funding education very highly and their staff, curriculum, and facilities show it. Until we place education in our growing city on the same level as these places, we are not, and will not be, competitive in the long run.

Some interesting points. I guess that's been one of the things disappointing me about the whole thing. Fayetteville has been known for being strong on education. I hate to say that it's not anymore and I know this recent mill issue had a lot of issues that irked people. But I hate to think that the city might be moving away from having such a strong emphasis on education.

[thewizard16]

Thanks for that link- that's a very interesting article. It illustrates where the Fayetteville high school plans went wrong- costs.

Here's part of a table from the article showing how a great new school can be built for much less than what was asked for in the election. In the case of Prosper they built all new athlectic facilites also and as you say a top of the line high school.

If Fayetteville gets the stimulus money they are trying for it should go far in improvement of the current facility- even begining a process of making it better than an all new facilty. Using the bond money to make the most needed improvements now and going for a lower millage increase in a better economy could be a possible plan.

The Celina example of 260,000 sq ft for $40 million is another good example of what could be done.

District High school Opened Cost to build* Square footage Price per square foot

Sunnyvale Sunnyvale 2009 $26 million 110,000 $236

Frisco Heritage 2009 $73 million 345,000 $212

Prosper Prosper 2009 $113.5 million 589,505 $193

Northwest Byron Nelson 2009 $96 million 504,000 $190

Frisco Liberty 2007 $60 million 340,000 $176

Frisco Wakeland 2006 $59 million 340,000 $174

Rockwall Rockwall- Heath 2005 $48.7 million 282,410 $172

Wylie Wylie East 2007 $45.9 million 268,000 $171

Celina Celina 2008 $40 million 260,000 $154

Lovejoy Lovejoy 2006 $33 million 225,000 $147

I think most people in Fayetteville support a great public school system- it how it is accomplished that is causing the debate. An area like the north Dallas suburbs has wealth, population and a corporate presence that is so far beyond anything in Arkansas that it is hard to compare the two. We have the Waltons and a few others but overall Arkansas is still a relatively lower income state with a small rural population. We are making great progress, especially here in NWA and Fayetteville does a great job of supporting education so the future is bright even with this setback.

That's a good point- Celina's high school is beautiful and top-notch, but it's nowhere near as big as Prosper, and we'd need something more along those lines. Frisco's schools are ridiculously nice (Liberty is particularly stunning), but that's an extremely wealthy area. Some of the schools in that area really don't seem like (and if you consider socioeconomics, aren't) public schools, they seem like small colleges/universities, but that seems to be the way things are headed. I think Fayetteville offers an excellent education, but we are in sore need of newer facilities to keep us competitive with other states, and I wish they'd use the north Dallas suburbs as an example for what can be done, considering how good most of their schools are.

[zman9810]

The school board ok'ed the district's plan to apply for the bond money available to it through the state as part of the stimulus package. $45 million of the $52 million would go towards the hgh school improvements while the rest would go towards the Happy Hollow project. The money now set aside for the Happy Hollow project would go towards paying the first few years of the bond issue along with budget cuts. Hopefully before the Happy Hollow reserve is used up another attempt at a millage increase can be successfully made so that the budget cuts don't undermine school's education mission.

This action shows that the board and adminstration are serious about finding a way to improve the high school and discredits the reasons that some voted against the last millage increase. It shows that the district is taking good care of the tax money entrusted to it. Although there are some who will find fault with the decision those are the same people who will be against whatever the the school system does.

[Mith242]

The Fayetteville School Board listed their preferences for construction and architectural firms. They will try to first work out a deal with Nabholz Construction. If that doesn't work out then they'll go down the list. Next would be CDI Contractors and then Flintco. Their top choice for archtectural firm is Hight-Jackson. Hight-Jackson is also partnered with the DLR Group and also with local architect Marlon Blackwell. Having Marlon Blackwell involved with the designs would be great. While Fayetteville has ties to some great architects Marlon Blackwell would be the top one still living. Second choice would be Crafton Tull Sparks partnered with Perkins & Will. Third would be Wittenberg, Deloney and Davidson partnered with Perkins Eastman Architects. While I'm sure the other architectural firms would also do a good job and some of them have some local ties as well. I still hope that the group with Marlon Blackwell get the job.

[thewizard16]

The Fayetteville School Board listed their preferences for construction and architectural firms. They will try to first work out a deal with Nabholz Construction. If that doesn't work out then they'll go down the list. Next would be CDI Contractors and then Flintco. Their top choice for archtectural firm is Hight-Jackson. Hight-Jackson is also partnered with the DLR Group and also with local architect Marlon Blackwell. Having Marlon Blackwell involved with the designs would be great. While Fayetteville has ties to some great architects Marlon Blackwell would be the top one still living. Second choice would be Crafton Tull Sparks partnered with Perkins & Will. Third would be Wittenberg, Deloney and Davidson partnered with Perkins Eastman Architects. While I'm sure the other architectural firms would also do a good job and some of them have some local ties as well. I still hope that the group with Marlon Blackwell get the job.

I am not impressed with Nabholz in the least, so I hope it moves on, (preferably to the one with Blackwell!) They've done a lot of the work on the University in the past, and their quality of work on the interiors of the buildings is not very encouraging.

[Mith242]

I am not impressed with Nabholz in the least, so I hope it moves on, (preferably to the one with Blackwell!) They've done a lot of the work on the University in the past, and their quality of work on the interiors of the buildings is not very encouraging.

I don't know enough about the construction companies to comment on them. I've gotten the impression overall the Fayetteville School District really likes Nabholz and prefers to work with them. But yeah as far as the architectural side I think it would be hard not to root for the group with Marlon Blackwell. Overall it seems like a lot of his work around here has been homes (which aren't always easy to view) or buildings outside of Fayetteville in other areas of NWA. It would be great to finally get a nice public building of his in Fayetteville.

[zman9810]

The Fayetteville School District refinanced a bond issue in a good move that will save the district almost $2 million over the term of the issue. They have really taken control of the high school issue and seem to be making all the right moves to improve the facilty. With the stimulus money and the money saved with this move to start the process of redoing the high schol campus they have refuted some of the criticisms they received about money management.

It will be interesting to see what this first phase of rebuilding the high school will look like. They have five years to complete the plans according to federal guidelines and by then another attempt at a millage increase might be possible.

[Mith242]

The Fayetteville School District refinanced a bond issue in a good move that will save the district almost $2 million over the term of the issue. They have really taken control of the high school issue and seem to be making all the right moves to improve the facility. With the stimulus money and the money saved with this move to start the process of redoing the high school campus they have refuted some of the criticisms they received about money management.

It will be interesting to see what this first phase of rebuilding the high school will look like. They have five years to complete the plans according to federal guidelines and by then another attempt at a millage increase might be possible.

I have to agree with you. This is probably the best way to go about this. Although I've also heard people complain. Some feel they were trying to send a 'message' to the school district by turning it down. Just to have the school district still find a way to go about it. But I guess you can't please everyone. For some people I guess it's the plan they want, two separate high schools/one new one different location or nothing.

[zman9810]

I have to agree with you. This is probably the best way to go about this. Although I've also heard people complain. Some feel they were trying to send a 'message' to the school district by turning it down. Just to have the school district still find a way to go about it. But I guess you can't please everyone. For some people I guess it's the plan they want, two separate high schools/one new one different location or nothing.

The one or two high school issue seems to have become a non-issue when Fayetteville School patrons look north to what has happened in Springdale. Fayetteville does not want to see the town divided into the haves and have-nots, which unfortunately has happened in Springdale. It's not a matter of athletic excellence: it's a matter of starting a division of the town into desirable areas to promote and develop and areas to avoid and that will decline. The present plan of investing in the central campus Fayetteville has now with the low growth rate it has is best .

[zman9810]

The addition of the ninth grade to the high school is being postponed until after the first phase of the reconstruction of the campus. The timing of the ninth grade addition will be determined later when the 10 year master plan is more fully developed. The planning for construction of a second high school will also be considered in the plan and may play a role in the decison of when to add the ninth grade. It sounds like the district is going to make the $45 million go as far as they can and then look at options for more funding to make more improvements.

[Mith242]

The addition of the ninth grade to the high school is being postponed until after the first phase of the reconstruction of the campus. The timing of the ninth grade addition will be determined later when the 10 year master plan is more fully developed. The planning for construction of a second high school will also be considered in the plan and may play a role in the decision of when to add the ninth grade. It sounds like the district is going to make the $45 million go as far as they can and then look at options for more funding to make more improvements.

Sounds like a good idea to me. Sounds like overall they were trying to shift grades around so that eventually there'd be more room in the elementary schools. Maybe this will cause problems down the road. But just looking at the high school situation I like the idea of waiting and making the most of that money for other uses.

[Mith242]

A few more details is starting to come out on the new high school design. Two options have been shown, either one of them fall under the $45 Mil budget. But there's no money to try to do both. In today's newspaper only one rendering was shown though. I had hoped to get to see a little more. Overall the artist's rendering is shown from a high up perspective in the air. You get to see the whole campus but it's also far enough out that you don't get to see a lot of details. Then there was no rendering for the other design. Hopefully eventually these renderings will get out a bit more so we can get a better look.

[zman9810]

There's a great article about the FHS plan options in today's NWA Times. The article gives information on what each of the two options consist of and pros and cons of each. Both options include a new peforming arts center and cafeteria space and the razing of the former Bates Elementary.

The first option will allow a cpacity of 2,400 students and include a new gymnasium and learning space. It would be all new construction and create a new front door to campus along Martin Luther King Jr. Bld.

The second option would involve some renovation of existing buildings and have a capacity of 1,800 students. This option has more cons than the first and is actually estimated to cost more.

The first option seems to be preferable at this stage of planning. Considering this is the first phase of a ten year master plan the first option is a great place to start. By the time construction is completed on it additional sources of revenue can be looked at. A millage increase will be much more likely to pass by then and the new construction should help build community support.

Here's a link to the FPS site with information about the options. There will public meetings next week Tuesday through Thursday at schools around town- the schedule is in the link also. This is exciting news for Fayetteville- after all the debate that has occured the last few years something positive is coming out of it!

FPS site

[zman9810]

The first public comment meeting was held Tuesday night at Ramay Junior High School. It was very informative and the architects did a good job of laying their ideas and answering questions from the public. The choice of option 1 or 2 comes down to what need is addressed first and what is the most efficent way to rebuild the campus.

Option 1 woudl be all new construction and be a much more effcient and less disruptive way to start the 10 year plan. It would add the most needed features first including new cafeteria space, performing arts space and a new gymnasium. It would also add learning space so that when the classroom space is rebuilt it is possible to move students around so that there is much less disruption.

Option 2 would only partially build the new front door along MLK Jr. and would cause major disruption for the students during reconstruction of the old building. It would be a floor by floor move and reconstruct job that while the architects assure it could be done is obviously not a good way to either have classes or do a constuction job. It would take longer and cost more and the campus would look uneven until the second phase could be implemented.

Here's a concept drawing of the new school and the second photo is the 3d model on display. The finished product should look grea and be very functional. It's clear that option 1 is the best way to get there.

[zman9810]

The schoo district is trying to find a way to finance the entire high school campus rebuild without asking for a millage increase. By refinancing bonds and using other moves they may be able to fund the improvements out of existing revenue sources. The architects say it would be more cost efficent to do the entire project as one and this strategy may make that possible. Sounds like a good idea as long as the primary school mission of a good education doesn't suffer for it.

[Mith242]

The first public comment meeting was held Tuesday night at Ramay Junior High School. It was very informative and the architects did a good job of laying their ideas and answering questions from the public. The choice of option 1 or 2 comes down to what need is addressed first and what is the most efficient way to rebuild the campus.

Option 1 would be all new construction and be a much more efficient and less disruptive way to start the 10 year plan. It would add the most needed features first including new cafeteria space, performing arts space and a new gymnasium. It would also add learning space so that when the classroom space is rebuilt it is possible to move students around so that there is much less disruption.

Option 2 would only partially build the new front door along MLK Jr. and would cause major disruption for the students during reconstruction of the old building. It would be a floor by floor move and reconstruct job that while the architects assure it could be done is obviously not a good way to either have classes or do a construction job. It would take longer and cost more and the campus would look uneven until the second phase could be implemented.

Here's a concept drawing of the new school and the second photo is the 3d model on display. The finished product should look great and be very functional. It's clear that option 1 is the best way to get there.

Looks like the school board voted to move ahead with Plan 1. I imagine more news will be coming out later today.

[zman9810]

The Fayetteville School District is trying to come up with a way to complete the entire rebuilding of the high school campus at one time. The phase one of the project is taken care of but they are wanting to get phase two underway as well. The district has qualified for $32 million of interest-free bonds through the federal stimulus program and needs to quickly find a way to pay them back or it will lose the opportunity. There has to be a decision by the 23rd of July. There is discussion of trying for another millage increase election with two possible options. One would be 1.7 mills and the other 2.75 mills. Another repayment option would be to cut employees and use the savings to pay back the bonds.

Considering that last year's millage election was a clear defeat it is surprising that another is even being thought about. The idea of laying off employees is even more surprising- especially if it is done by increasing class sizes to be able to layoff teachers. A new school but less teachers seems counterproductive. It seems too soon to go back to the voters for a millage increase. The economy is still in the dumps and there is nothing to indicate that the result of an election would be any different this time around. The best plan may be to build the first phase and hope for a better economy and the image of a half finished school to build suport for a millage increase in a few years.

[Mith242]

The Fayetteville School District is trying to come up with a way to complete the entire rebuilding of the high school campus at one time. The phase one of the project is taken care of but they are wanting to get phase two underway as well. The district has qualified for $32 million of interest-free bonds through the federal stimulus program and needs to quickly find a way to pay them back or it will lose the opportunity. There has to be a decision by the 23rd of July. There is discussion of trying for another millage increase election with two possible options. One would be 1.7 mills and the other 2.75 mills. Another repayment option would be to cut employees and use the savings to pay back the bonds.

Considering that last year's millage election was a clear defeat it is surprising that another is even being thought about. The idea of laying off employees is even more surprising- especially if it is done by increasing class sizes to be able to layoff teachers. A new school but less teachers seems counterproductive. It seems too soon to go back to the voters for a millage increase. The economy is still in the dumps and there is nothing to indicate that the result of an election would be any different this time around. The best plan may be to build the first phase and hope for a better economy and the image of a half finished school to build suport for a millage increase in a few years.

Yeah, I had to say I was surprised when I heard about this as well. I can understand not wanting to put off phase two for a long time. But I'm just wondering if it's really imperative that it's done right now. The options out there don't really sound like it's a great move right now. I agree with the move on cutting back on employees. I also have a hard time imagining that another millage vote would turn out well. I suppose maybe some people might vote for it since the school district is already going ahead on it. But at the same time I think some people are even more frustrated because they feel the school board went 'behind their backs' to get this started anyway even after the vote against. If you held out just a little while, maybe then the economy will be in good shape and with the past vote a little more distant. You might be able to get a more positive vote. I'm no expert on all of this, but to me that seems a better option.

[zman9810]

Yeah, I had to say I was surprised when I heard about this as well. I can understand not wanting to put off phase two for a long time. But I'm just wondering if it's really imperative that it's done right now. The options out there don't really sound like it's a great move right now. I agree with the move on cutting back on employees. I also have a hard time imagining that another millage vote would turn out well. I suppose maybe some people might vote for it since the school district is already going ahead on it. But at the same time I think some people are even more frustrated because they feel the school board went 'behind their backs' to get this started anyway even after the vote against. If you held out just a little while, maybe then the economy will be in good shape and with the past vote a little more distant. You might be able to get a more positive vote. I'm no expert on all of this, but to me that seems a better option.

Yes, I think there were some individuals that were against any plan although I think the majority of those who voted no were voting against the local property tax increase aspect of it - not the use of any source of tax money. There are individuals around that would do away with any property tax- how they would propose to pay for the things that the tax is used for I don't know. In my personal opinion the school district has done an excellent job in putting together the plan and financing for the new campus.

The new construction will include a storm water system that will hold 500,000 gallons of water and be underground. This will be very expensive but necessary. I imagine digging through the rock on that site will be time consuming as well.

I don't think many of us in the general public can claim to be experts on this or the many other topics discussed here but we can read, attend meetings and otherwise educate ourselves so that we can give informed opinions about civic matters. If you care about your community I think it is important that one does contribute to the discussions. As a taxpayer I know I want to have a say in how my tax money is spent. The Internet has lead to an openness in public discussions that is overall a good thing although it can be abused at times.

[Mith242]

Yes, I think there were some individuals that were against any plan although I think the majority of those who voted no were voting against the local property tax increase aspect of it - not the use of any source of tax money. There are individuals around that would do away with any property tax- how they would propose to pay for the things that the tax is used for I don't know. In my personal opinion the school district has done an excellent job in putting together the plan and financing for the new campus.

The new construction will include a storm water system that will hold 500,000 gallons of water and be underground. This will be very expensive but necessary. I imagine digging through the rock on that site will be time consuming as well.

I don't think many of us in the general public can claim to be experts on this or the many other topics discussed here but we can read, attend meetings and otherwise educate ourselves so that we can give informed opinions about civic matters. If you care about your community I think it is important that one does contribute to the discussions. As a taxpayer I know I want to have a say in how my tax money is spent. The Internet has lead to an openness in public discussions that is overall a good thing although it can be abused at times.

Yeah I will say I supported the high school plan in the beginning and I still do. I know that nobody likes paying taxes, but I do think this is something well worth it.

[aerotive]

The 2.75 millage increase proposal is confirmed for September:

http://www.4029tv.com/news/24192011/detail.html

[Mith242]

The 2.75 millage increase proposal is confirmed for September:

http://www.4029tv.com/news/24192011/detail.html

Well I wish them the best of luck. I do support the millage but I admit I would be a bit surprised if it passes. I think it's going to be bad timing.

[zman9810]

Well I wish them the best of luck. I do support the millage but I admit I would be a bit surprised if it passes. I think it's going to be bad timing.

That was also my first reaction but after thinking about it some I think this lower increase will have a much better chance of passing. The situation is quite different this time- the high school project is a reality this time. The first phase is going to be built and most of the debates surrounding the first election have been settled. The school will need to be finished either now at this price or likely much more later. This is a chance to finish the rebuilding at a huge savings on interest payments. The $29 million saved could pay for many other needs that the district will have in the future.

The positives seem to outweigh the negatives this time around. I will certainly be voting yes in September.

One other point- voters in the Bentonville School District overwhelmingly supported a 3.6 mill increase just recently- surely Fayetteville supports it's public schools as much as they support theirs.

[Mith242]

That was also my first reaction but after thinking about it some I think this lower increase will have a much better chance of passing. The situation is quite different this time- the high school project is a reality this time. The first phase is going to be built and most of the debates surrounding the first election have been settled. The school will need to be finished either now at this price or likely much more later. This is a chance to finish the rebuilding at a huge savings on interest payments. The $29 million saved could pay for many other needs that the district will have in the future.

The positives seem to outweigh the negatives this time around. I will certainly be voting yes in September.

One other point- voters in the Bentonville School District overwhelmingly supported a 3.6 mill increase just recently- surely Fayetteville supports it's public schools as much as they support theirs.

You might be right. The amount doesn't seem to be as high. In fact if I saw this correctly for every $100,000 of personal property you're basically talking about $4 a month. Really doesn't seem like that much. And like you said, a lot of the other issues have been determined whether people agreed with them or not. You'd hate to see something like this get voted down because some people are still mad or out of spite. I'm still not sure on the timing, but after looking at it more I do think there is a better shot myself.

[zman9810]

I thought it would be interesting to have a pictorial progress report on the first phase work at the high school. The district will probably have something similar but in case they don't- here's one. It might have a different angle on the work also.

The first pic is the angle most likely to be seen- it from the southwest corner of campus. The second is from the southeast across MLK Jr. Blvd. Demolition is scheduled to start this month with fencing going up this week.