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KCghettoboi

Cities on the Fall

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It's reported in the census for STL , in 2001-2002 St. Louis lost 12% of their popuation. The highest in the nation! Does STL need new leadership?

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I hope STL recovers. But KC is on the rise with new developments and redevelopments going on everywhere. We are one of the few major cities in the nation transforming our "ghetto" downtown into a upscale neifghborhood. With new redevelopments transforming a recently bad neighborhood into a resindential condo neighborhood, with coffee shops on the corners.( Gillham project)

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Look once again I'm not downing any city, I'm ju's sayin' STL needs to make some changes. ^ At least we didn't lose anybody. Plus our KC proper, population will increase significantly this year because of all the new housing being built DT and out North. One plus on our side is we have a suburban KC proper, north of the river. All i'm sayin' is STL better make some changes. They used to have a population of over 900,000 people.(STL is much older than KC, in fact it was a STL man who was one of KC's founders).

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monsoon, the census has screwed up greatly on KC's numbers. also, they are still using 1999 and 2000 numbers to estimate our population, our city didn't start booming until mid and late 2000.

We average about 2,000 housing permits each year, the most in the metro.

Downtown has gained 6,100 people since 2002.

The Northern part of KCMO is booming a whole lot.

Downtown's 8,000 proposed and u/c units are selling really really fast also. Now you can't tell me that KCMO only gained 1,200 people since 2000.

If you lived here then you would know that KC definitely didn't lose anyone.

Even the highest people in our city government are disagreeing with the census bureau. Like Allan pointed out in the Kansas City forum (on this site), they screwed up on Chicago's also, and I was just at Chicago and it is really really booming, I really didn't bother counting the buildings that were under construction or that were about to be constructed.

As i've said before, I have looked at 4 indicators that are post 2000 census and all are pointing to a population of over 500,000 for KC.

May I also point out they use old IRS records, well, our IRS is in the middle of a big 6,000 employee move to downtown. So I doubt they want to screw around with the census.

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These cenus estimates are bull crap, like Devin said they say Chicago is declining With the boom going on there that has to be impossible. Now this brings me to St. Louis I am not going to doubt that the city is declining there are alot of thing we need to improve on still, but It is not at the rate the census says.

And yes we do need new leadership.

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I have stated before, the numbers they are using to estimate are from 1999 and 2000, before our boom really began.

Remember, they are estimates, not true numbers. Do not trust their numbers because they do not know KCMO and do not live here.

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I have stated before, the numbers they are using to estimate are from 1999 and 2000, before our boom really began.

Remember, they are estimates, not true numbers. Do not trust their numbers because they do not know KCMO and do not live here.

I've always questioned how much downtown residential booms actually contribute to a city's population growth. With rare exception, I think most cities' population growth takes place on the fringes where new construction occurs on vacant land or through annexation of already built up areas. I think this is true for the sunbelt as much as any other area. If there's not much new construction or annexation on the fringes, I think most cities decline in pop.

And the census doesn't just sit in Washington and make numbers up. They go over building permits, school enrollment figures, tax returns filed, utility hookup records, etc.

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We are one of the few major cities in the nation transforming our "ghetto" downtown into a upscale neifghborhood.

KC is hardly one of the "few" major cities seeing rehabilitation of it's downtown core.

KCghettoboi: You have been warned that this backhanded KC vs. St. Louis crap is not acceptable. Cut it out.

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if you want to talk metro areas, of course, STL and KC are both growing, I believe only 1 city in the KC metro is losing people and that would be KCK (not KCMO, contrary to the census bureau), STL only has 1 city that is losing people in it's metro and that is STL itself. I believe people in STL are moving from the city into the suburbs, however the areas of KC that the bureau says are growing have higher housing costs than KCMO itself. Most of Johnson County is made up of upper middle class and upper class houses.

And cotuit, I agree with you, KCGhettoboi, please quit the STL bashing.

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Do not trust their numbers because they do not know KCMO and do not live here.

So there's not one person in the census bureau who lives in KC? :lol:

BTW, there's no way St. Lou lost 12% of it's population in one year as you claim.

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Guest donaltopablo

I've always questioned how much downtown residential booms actually contribute to a city's population growth. With rare exception, I think most cities' population growth takes place on the fringes where new construction occurs on vacant land or through annexation of already built up areas. I think this is true for the sunbelt as much as any other area. If there's not much new construction or annexation on the fringes, I think most cities decline in pop.

And the census doesn't just sit in Washington and make numbers up. They go over building permits, school enrollment figures, tax returns filed, utility hookup records, etc.

I think that depends largely on the city and style of redevelopment. Some cities simply replace older, run down houses with new units. In these cases, I don't think it contributes greatly to growth. Other cities, like Atlanta (I'm not tooting horns here, just going with an example I familar with) where much of the redevelopment is over surface parking lots, brown fields, and abonded buildings, it does contribute greatly to a population increase. Atlanta saw it's first population increase in decades recently, and this is without annexation to benefit it's growth.

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12% in one year? I find that pretty difficult to believe, more likely you meant that it lost 12% in a decade, maybe 5 years.

BTW KCGhettoboi isn't bashing STL when he says, "I hope STL recovers."

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How can people seriously question this census estimates? Are we to assume that you went around and counted all the people yourself? Perhaps your people counting techniques are better than theirs. Numbers: People tout them when they're positive and disavow them when they're negative.

We all know that they're estimates, but I'm guessing it's the best estimate out there.

I'm also in the camp that thinks downtown development, while positive doesn't actually contribute that much to actual population.

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Thank you wendell fox^. Why does everybody keep saying I'm bashing STL. I said I hope they recover! And I said I love STL. I know that there metro is growing, I just said it was there STL proper that lost 12% of there population.

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How come monsoon and most other people on here, don't want to believe KC's growth. The northland is booming, they just got a new plazathe "Zona Rosa". I didn't make this thread to compare KC v. STL. That was just my topic to start this thread. I suggest everybody go do some research on KC then come back with the facts, and not your false opinion.

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How come monsoon and most other people on here, don't want to believe KC's growth. The northland is booming, they just got a new plazathe "Zona Rosa". I didn't make this thread to compare KC v. STL. That was just my topic to start this thread. I suggest everybody go do some research on KC then come back with the facts, and not your false opinion.

I don't think anybody here is doubting the amount of redevelopment taking place in KC. It just isn't contributing as much to population growth as many think it is. Btw, the census estimates are the best we have right now. They're just not cooking these numbers, based of old growth rates. Another thing about new inner city development, most of it is aimed at retirees and single young professionals. You might put up 2,000 new units and only gain a population a little over 2,000, but lose it all in the older run down neighborhoods whose families are continuing to move out into the suburbs.

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Can't speak for St. Louis, but Pittsburgh is in desperate need of some new political leadership. Err, make that some political leadership, period.

At least Allegheny County has a handful of competent politicians.

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