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Cities on the Fall


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San Francisco has been going up and down in growth, possibly because there is very little space in the compact 50 square miles. SF had 760,000 in 2002, a 17,000 loss from 2000 census 777,000, 53,000 more from 724,000 in 1990. That's 46,000 added from 678,000 in 1980, which was a drop from 715,000 in 1970.

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How come monsoon and most other people on here, don't want to believe KC's growth. The northland is booming, they just got a new plazathe "Zona Rosa". I didn't make this thread to compare KC v. STL. That was just my topic to start this thread. I suggest everybody go do some research on KC then come back with the facts, and not your false opinion.

Just a thought- but it might be a better idea for you to get the facts and post them here for all to see. Undoubtedly you are more familiar with KC-related websites than other people, so it would be much easier for you to get the info. Until you (or anyone) can prove otherwise, the Census is the best source for population we have.

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San Francisco has been going up and down in growth, possibly because there is very little space in the compact 50 square miles. SF had 760,000 in 2002, a 17,000 loss from 2000 census 777,000, 53,000 more from 724,000 in 1990. That's 46,000 added from 678,000 in 1980, which was a drop from 715,000 in 1970.

It sounds SF has hit a plateau. That whole peninsula is pretty well developed. They are putting in alot of awsome towers downtown that should help to raise things up a bit.

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what do you mean by sick puppies? KC is far from being a sick puppy, all of our issues except crime are being solved. And homicides are 70% of the time commited by someone you know, and you can't stop homicides by arresting people. (well, not always anyway)

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??? where are you from anyway? Was that meant to be mocking me or was it just a post from a misinformed stubborn person?

If you are talking about KCK then you are right, you have no freaking idea about the amount of development in KCMO. We are on our way to becoming the 5th to 4th largest midwestern city in 30 years.

So if you think that about Kansas City then your opinion is the same about STL right? Because we are the same size and in the same state.

Also, you must not have ever been to Illinois, cities like Peoria, and Springfield are in the middle of nowhere. And of course, you must not have ever been to Kansas, Wichita is a city in the middle of nowhere.

Kansas City is surrounded by hills and trees and of course, farmland. But there is far more trees and hills to be found here than in Kansas or central Illinois.

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I was talking about Kansas City, MO.

We are on our way to becoming the 5th to 4th largest midwestern city in 30 years.

That says it all. Fourth or fifth largest in 30 years in the dying midwest. Is that the best bragging KC can do? Btw, St. Louis has a much larger name than Kansas City.

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the size of the name means nothing, St. Louis is alot older than Kansas City is, in fact, about 100 years. Yet we are still larger, but of course, just not as dense.

At the rate at which we are growing, we will reach 500,000 people by 2010 and possibly 700,000 by 2030 or 2040.

Our downtown's rate of development puts up the possibility it will be just as large (population and workforce) as Minneapolis' downtown.

Our downtown grew from 6,500 people in 2000 to over 15,100 in 2004.

Our city and metro is booming in population as KC has had enough houses built and bought to boost our population near or over 460,000 people.

Our new arena will become one of the most famous ever, drawing a major league basketball or hockey team (meaning that we will have 4 major league teams) plus being designed by three of the nations greatest sports architectural firms.

Our downtown will have one of the greatest entertainment districts in the midwest having a new Performing Arts Center, a Convention Center near 700k-800k sq. ft. a new Ballroom, etc...

OVer 10,000 units have been proposed for downtown (but haven't been built yet) and only 4,000 to 5,000 units have been built since 2000 (a gain of nearly 9,000 people with only 5,000 units built is dense).

Don't even try to tell me what KC is like or will be because I study the city EVERY SINGLE DAY.

You seem to have some dislike for the midwest. Also, the midwest isn't in decline, look at KC and Chicago. Chicago is gaining lots of people and of course, so is KC, just not at the massive rate of Chicago.

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Cities are living places, they are all worth discovering in person.

Not in the conservative midwest. Midwestern cities are dead and you are lucky to actually see one person in downtown on a beautiful summer day. What few people are left in midwest cities are plotting their escape to the even more conservative exsuburbs.

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Ok I will:

http://www.downtownkc.org/Housing/January2...ng%20Report.pdf

That is the information on downtown. Which right now has a density of 5,033 ppl per square mile.

There have been lots more units proposed since that study, putting the total over 10,000 (it was 7,000 back then)

Don't you even go to the Kansas City part of this forum? It has alot of the major projects going on downtown.

The proposed PAC and Ballroom:

http://photos.imageevent.com/kcgridlock/misc/100_0537b.jpg

Over 2.5 billion dollars of projects are proposed or under construction downtown.

The approved Power & Light Live entertainment district:

http://www.kcskyscrapers.com/albums/render...verendering.jpg

The arena graphic is just there to show where it's going, they really don't have a desgin for the arena yet.

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The source you posted doesn't back up your claims.

You said over 10,000 have been proposed but the link you put up says there are 1300.

The article is not that dated. It is from January 2004. I highly doubt that 8700 units have been proposed in a few months.

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I have kept track of ALL the projects downtown that have been proposed since 2000 and haven't been built, the number of units goes over 10,000.

The P&L Live district will have 1,200 units.

Another project in south downtown will have over 1,000 units.

Three towers in northeastern downtown total over 800 units.

They were proposed after that was finished.

UNDER CONSTRUCTION (YELLOW DOTS)

17 Col Park East Apts 1030 Pacific 2002 14

18 Grand Exchange Building 1201 Grand Matt Abbott 2003 31

19 Vine St. Dist. Homes 21st/22nd & Vine Vine St. LP 2002 122

23 29th & Grand TH 2900 Grand Frye & Co. 2002 16

173 Clubhouse Lofts 1228 Baltimore Ave. Mark Latshaw NA 72

175 21 Ten 21 W. 10th St. Tom Trabon NA 52

176 Finance Building Lofts (a) 1009 Baltimore Dale Schulte NA 32

177 Summit at 16th 1661 Summit St. BBL NA 24

178 Western Auto 2107 Grand MCZ Development Corp. NA 166

179 1819 Lofts 1819 Baltimore Arcado, A.G. Real Estate NA 25

180 Gillham Row (Phase I) 2939 Gillham Row Urban Coeur Development NA 33

181 East Market Row 501 Holmes Urban Coeur Development NA 8

PLANNED (RED DOTS)

24 Kansas City Club 13th & Baltimore Mark Latshaw 2003 82

25 Power and Light Bldg 14th & Baltimore 2004 100

26 President Hotel Dev. 13th & Baltimore Pres.Dev. Group 2003 225

28 Old Ballpark Homes 22nd & Brooklyn Vine St. LP 2002 52

29 Courthouse Lofts 9th & Cherry 2003 12

30 Lofts at Nine One Seven 915/17 Wyandotte BBL 2002 29

31 Adler Lofts 314-18 W. 10th Winteer Inc. 2002 4

32 908 Broadway Lofts 908 Broadway DST/Dworak 2002 24

34 Columbia Burlap 1412 W. 12th 3rd Millennium 2002 20

35 Hanover Building 15 E. 10th St. Dale Schulte 2002 50

36 Walnut St. Lofts/Condos 15th & Walnut Master Realty 2003 12

37 Apartments at 909 911 Walnut Kimberly-Clark 2003 177

38 Beacon Hill 27th & Troost Dunn-Zimmer-T&B 2003-2007 450

39 The Lofts @ 1524 1524 Walnut Walnut St. Redev 2003 12

40 Professional Building 1101 Grand Ave. Alexander Co. 2003 120

82 Argyle Building

183 Waltower (a) 823 Wyandotte Dale Schulte NA 53

184 The Lofts at 917 (a) 917 Wyandotte Dale Schulte NA 29

185 1330 Grand 1330 Grand Blvd. Jennifer Ingram NA 4

187 The View 600 Admiral Reeder 155

189 5 Delaware 423 Delaware St. Development Initiatives NA 12

190 Lofts at River Market West 320 W. 5th. St. BBL NA 45

191 Lighthouse Lofts 220 W. 5th St. BBL NA 94

193 Westside Single Family (a) 17th & W. Pennsylvania Who Inc. NA 10

194 2004 Grand Lofts 2004 Grand Blvd. Brian Williams NA 5

195 The Liberty 2420 Broadway Owl Properties NA 38

196 Oak Street Lofts 17th & Oak Master Realty NA 12

197 SoHo Lofts 1600 Grand Master Realty NA 12

198 1800 Baltimore Lofts 1800 Baltimore Brad Nicholson NA 6

199 TWA Building 1301 Baltimore Lou Trigg/Roger Buford NA

200 Freighthouse Lofts 2121 Central St Roger Buford (MR) NA 118

202 5th St. Townhouses 922 E. 5th St. Dan Wayne NA 4

203 Union Hill East 30th & Gillham Rd. Frey Development NA 298

204 Cadillac Lofts 29th & Gillham Rd. Unknown NA 28

205 US Bank Building 1101 Walnut Townsend 144

206 Rivermarket East 5th and Grand Birt 150

207 Abdiana Building 20th and Grand Abdiana 90

208 W Lofts 18th Wyandotte Kretek 17

209 Vine Street Lofts 20th and Paseo 18th Vine 62

But that list is back from January. and only has 3,350 units listed.

http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=2540

Back in February we had 8,000 proposed or u/c. And we have has several larger projects proposed since then. After all, that was half a year ago. At the least our number of units is over 9,000.

That PDF file doesn't list ALL of the projects. We know ALL of the loft projects going on downtown and they are missing nearly, if not more than 30 projects.

Muler, are you bs'ing me just to be bs'ing or do you really think the way you do?

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KCDevin-- stop saying that KC is larger than STL. That's bullsh*t and everyone knows it. Nobody cares about city population anymore. Metro is what counts, and STL has almost a million people more than KC. Saying KC is bigger than St. Louis is like saying that Jacksonville is bigger than Boston (it does have a bigger city pop after all). Come on, you don't buy that crap do you. Time to get over it.

Muler-- it's a shame that you're so narrow-minded, but ultimately it is your loss.

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Muler-- it's a shame that you're so narrow-minded, but ultimately it is your loss.

People are voicing their opinion of the Midwest cities by leaving them. Midwest cities are falling apart and have been for decades as the trend is not slowing down.

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I do? really? that source proves that KC has gained people. Like I said, that source DOESN"T list ALL of the projects. Quit being so freaking hard headed! I really don'e like talking to hard headed people. Either you quit being so stubborn or I won't even discuss this issue. I'm not going to talk to someone who doesn't even know 1% of the things I know about my own city.

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Guest donaltopablo

Moderators warning: Keep it civil guys.

Personal note: I've long come to realize that new construction does not guarantee a population increase. Although it can be a good sign. It depends on whether there are other areas of the city which are losing population, even as some increase in population.

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KCDevin, well then post the sources were you got your information on this huge increase in downtown population and the thousands upon thousands of units of housing you claim. So far the sources you have posted have refuted your claims with substantially much lower numbers.

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People are voicing their opinion of the Midwest cities by leaving them. Midwest cities are falling apart and have been for decades as the trend is not slowing down.

Muler-- according to census estimates, people are also leaving Philadelphia, Boston, Baltimore, DC and San Francisco. Does the same blanket statement apply to those cities as well?

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