Cities on the Fall

[sleepy]

Don't have a clue as to where you get your population densities, but for downtown Memphis to have 10,000 people and only 1,500 per sq. mile means its downtown is over six square miles. As one born and raised in Memphis, I can tell you downtown is nowhere near that large an area.

I would also view statements from a city's mayor that "In the next four years, I expect 10,000 more new and rehabbed housing units to be constructed in the River-Crown-Plaza" with the same skepticism that I would view any boosterism from a chamber of commerce, or "City Hall or "downtown council".

[muler]

Some of the other cities number might be full of crap but Kansas City's isn't. You just don't like seeing Kansas City having higher numbers and a higher density than St. Louis.

What. It is clearly the other way around, St. Louis has a higher density, has a more city like atmosphere and more urban neighborhoods - easily.

[monsoon]

[KCghettoboi]

here are some urban districts by kcgridlock:

Want More? So don't tell me KC isn't Urban!...

[monsoon]

[Spartan]

that last pic looks like an interesting place.....

[KCghettoboi]

That last place is part of the Plaza(in the country club district)...

[memphismike]

There are 23,500 residents in Downtown Memphis. You can check the fact at www.downtownmemphis.com.

[sleepy]

There are 23,500 residents in Downtown Memphis. You can check the fact at www.downtownmemphis.com.

Yeah, but that figure includes the medical center as far east as Cleveland Avenue. I really don't know many Memphians who consider that downtown.

I do agree though that Memphis has a large number of downtown residents, even in what I what define as the traditional downtown area--the area 2 miles long from Auction St. on the north, including Mud Island, to Georgia Avenue on the south, and east 5 blocks to Danny Thomas. I believe that is about 10,000 people in perhaps 1.5 or 2 square miles.

[mjtinmemphis]

Hello everyone,

I would just like to come to the rescue of one of my favorite cities...St. Louis. I think St. Louis along with other urban areas have lost population at some point in time.

Take a look at some of our countries faster growing cities such as Nashville. Nashvilles growth is due to the area having a Metro form of government. Nashville also has a lot of open space for development, therefore the city can continue population growth. Same thing takes place in Austin, Charlotte and many other fast growing sun belt cities.

On the other hand, St. Louis city has not had any open space for quite some time. Most of the housing development in that area has occured 20 to 50 miles outside of the city limits.

Take it from a person that has lived in Charlotte, St. Louis, Raleigh, Memphis and Nashville. Out of those 5 cities, St. Louis by far has more to offer. More pro sports, Trendy neighborhoods such as Soulard, Central West End, University City, Clayton and the list goes on. Not to mention having opportunity to make a decent living. St. Louis has always been in the top 10 metro's for fortune 500 companies presence. (not even KC can say that) Not to mention a world class zoo and several other cultural amenities that are not in most of the cities mentioned.

Now, I don't mean to turn this into a my city verses yours type of arguement. However, I think its important to look at more than just numbers when talking down a particular area.

[mjtinmemphis]

First of all, Memphis isn't that urbanised to have 10000 people living in downtown. The core of downtown goes from the riverfront east to danny thomas from linden ave to auction avenue. There are only 2500 residents living within that core.

check out this link

http://www.downtownmemphis.com/domain/live...oods_DTCore.asp

[mjtinmemphis]

Those number do include Crown Center which OFFICIALLY is part of downtown. Many forumers on the KC site disagree with what the Downtown Council (and City Hall too) Considers downtown but what really matters is the facts.

Like I said, both City Hall and the Downtown Council consider downtown to consist of 3 square miles from the river to 31st street and from I35 to Bruce R. Watkins.

Therefore downtown Kansas City has a population density of 5,033 so that means that those numbers ARE NOT ludicrus.

Also, all of those numbers come from either the city's downtown council or the city hall of those city's so they aren't full of crap. And some are still from the year 2000. (only ones under 5,000 people)

Here are the population density numbers:

City Density/ppsm

Minneapolis 13,100

Cincinnati 6,831

Milwaukee 6,371

Detroit 6,000

Kansas City 5,033

Salt Lake City 4,025

Denver 4,000

Pittsburgh 3,828

Indianapolis 3,134

Cleveland 2,666

St. Louis 2,500

Charlotte 2,379

Louisville 2,316

Buffalo 2,078

Columbus 1,750

Memphis 1,538

Houston 1,500

Nashville 1,165

Oklahoma City 1,025

Some of the other cities number might be full of crap but Kansas City's isn't. You just don't like seeing Kansas City having higher numbers and a higher density than St. Louis.

The members of the downtown council of Kansas City:

http://www.downtownkc.org/council_members.html

Most of the members are located in downtown, from the river to 31st street.

With so many members who are included in the whole 3 square mile area, plus having the support of City Hall, their numbers are accurate. And downtown DOES include Crown Center because the downtown council says so, and because City Hall says so.

Like I said, the forumers on the other site go by their own definitions, some think just the loop is downtown, some think the river market and the loop is downtown, some think downtown is river market, the loop and the crossroads. But THEIR opinions don't matter because the facts say otherwise.

So in the end, what I define as downtown is the same as what the downtown council and city hall consider downtown.

And how are they dead for having so many people in such small areas? If KC's DT was dead, units wouldn't still be selling out.

The population of Downtown St. Louis is around 9000 for a 2 sq mile area. Hmmmm...

Where did you get these statistics from.

[mjtinmemphis]

I never said census estimates are somehow incorrect for Bos, Philly and D.C. and the same estimates are accurate for midwest cities. Find were I did.

You can tell me that midwest cities are on par with East and West Coast cities. Please. The midwest is dying, there is not much reinvestment, the coasts aren't. Go to downtown Philly and tell me somewhere as vibrant in the midwest.

Chicago...not st. louis or kansas city.

[sleepy]

First of all, Memphis isn't that urbanised to have 10000 people living in downtown.

[mjtinmemphis]

I see now how Downtown Memphis if including those areas of south main and mud island may have 10000 residence. I've never paid too much attention to south main as being downtown. It seems just like that area is relatively dead dead during the day. Mud Island seems a little disconected from downtown activity because it is on an island away from the hussle and bussle of city life, therefore I don't consider mud island to offer much on the lines of an urban experience.