Charlotte Sports Complex (Bojangles Coliseum area)

[Condoze34]

I think it is a huge bonus having the stadium and arena uptown. It is a quality of life issue. Urban living has an element of energy and excitement to it and game days always heightens the excitement level. It would be good if BoA stadium could add more college football like the VT-ECU game this year. With the ACC football championship coming soon, that will be another very prestigious event for the city. Visitors and locals alike enjoy being in the atmosphere of the city center and if the venues were located on a large non descript parcel far away from everything, it just wouldn't be the same. Did everybody see the arial shots of uptown during the Monday night game? They were awesome and make a great calling card for the city. That type of exposure would cost millions.

Look at Baltimore as an example. The old Memorial Stadium was in the middle of a residential neighborhood, far from downtown. When they built Camden Yards, it was a huge success for downtown tourism, not to mention civic pride.

I'm looking forward to being able to walk to a baseball game in uptown on a warm summer night.

[boilerdown]

I'm beginning to think certain agents who I shall not mention or attack personally, you know who you are, are purposefully posting outrageous positions on a variety of issues in Charlotte just to drive ad revenue on this site. More posts, more conflict = more advertising impressions am I right? Brilliant!

Next topic, bulldoze any building over 15 stories, all sporting venues (this includes you Childress Klein and Gateway Village YMCA), and force out all banks with more than one branch from our city limits (this means you Wellschovia, Bank of America, BB&T, Fifth Third and all your nasty office complexes blighting Tryon St!). We can do it Charlotte, let us unite to achieve our full potential as a city!

[uptownliving]

Before that stadium was put in, there was a fairly nice urban grid there containing a lot of older buildings that would have been perfect for redevelopment into an urban stroll district. It did not look like the wasteland of concrete that one sees today that nobody goes to except for the few times/year there is an event in the stadium. To be fair the building of the southern portion of I-277 did a great deal of destruction too in this area. If you want to imagine what this area used to look like there is a short stretch of the original buildings on Morehead between the stadium and S. Tryon.

Your description of the area may have been accurate for the 1950s...but by the time the stadium was constructed 12 years ago those buildings had long been demolished. The only thing torn down for the football stadium was the Good Samaritan Hospital which was dismantled and then put back together again inside the Museum of the New South.

So if the stadium were not there today...the area would be even more of an urban wasteland than it is.

[Eastman]

The one element that is absent in a certain posters equation regardless of topic is the human experience. Go downtown in 1983 as I did. This was before the banks got big, we wasted all that money on sports teams and their venues, the train had not been poorly planned and mismanaged.

There were no high rise residences that people had so foolishly bought into and the city could care less if you went downtown or not. It sucked! Except for the fact that we lost some cool buildings

which was criminal and short sighted, and we did lose the department stores, downtown is a thousand times better than it ever was, and yes this didn't happen without spending alot of money.

Some people would have you believe that Rome should have put the Coliseum out in the burbs because, well gee the land is cheaper and there is all this room and it's not in the banks interest to do so. Bull. The sports venues are ours, like it or not, and should be celebrated downtown!

I went to the Bobcats vs the Nicks and then went to Epicenter to see The Mez. As I sat there and watched the folks using the train and milling around I was so proud I couldn't stand it. I sit in my PSL's and watch the game with the skyline rising behind the arena and I think " I saw this happen!"

There are plenty of going nowhere towns in this country who never spend a dime on anything and have no vision and never "waste" their pennies on such foolishness. Reality is if you choose to live in this environment and sit back and criticise every single move this city makes I begin to question your logic all the more.

[Hardcore_Hokie]

The one element that is absent in a certain posters equation regardless of topic is the human experience. Go downtown in 1983 as I did. This was before the banks got big, we wasted all that money on sports teams and their venues, the train had not been poorly planned and mismanaged.

There were no high rise residences that people had so foolishly bought into and the city could care less if you went downtown or not. It sucked! Except for the fact that we lost some cool buildings

which was criminal and short sighted, and we did lose the department stores, downtown is a thousand times better than it ever was, and yes this didn't happen without spending alot of money.

Some people would have you believe that Rome should have put the Coliseum out in the burbs because, well gee the land is cheaper and there is all this room and it's not in the banks interest to do so. Bull. The sports venues are ours, like it or not, and should be celebrated downtown!

I went to the Bobcats vs the Nicks and then went to Epicenter to see The Mez. As I sat there and watched the folks using the train and milling around I was so proud I couldn't stand it. I sit in my PSL's and watch the game with the skyline rising behind the arena and I think " I saw this happen!"

There are plenty of going nowhere towns in this country who never spend a dime on anything and have no vision and never "waste" their pennies on such foolishness. Reality is if you choose to live in this environment and sit back and criticise every single move this city makes I begin to question your logic all the more.

^^^ Post of the year, right there. The transformation this city has/is going through is nothing short of remarkable to me. As you say, there are thousands of "going nowhere towns" in this country...but Charlotte has become something really special, at least in my book. Best to enjoy it. ^^^

[Windsurfer]

Your description of the area may have been accurate for the 1950s...but by the time the stadium was constructed 12 years ago those buildings had long been demolished. The only thing torn down for the football stadium was the Good Samaritan Hospital which was dismantled and then put back together again inside the Museum of the New South.

So if the stadium were not there today...the area would be even more of an urban wasteland than it is.

While no urban paradise, there were a few independent businesses removed from where the stadium is now. One friend of the family ran a theater supply business, who, ironically had been relocated from "Theater Row" on Church Street due to other progressive plans. (I believe his old location was where the vacant lot beside Latta Arcade is now.) He was forced to close down his new location after his land was sold for the stadium.

There was also a thriving service station at the corner of Morehead and Mint I used to sell parts to.

[monsoon]

I moved to Charlotte in 1978, where I drove through this area everyday to go work at Freedom and Morehead. There were a huge number of buildings that existed in that area then, and Graham at that time was a busy street because it had not been cut off by I-277 and the Stadium. As a result there were a lot of old buildings there that could have been converted to a stroll district. It was the type of place that many cities have, but Charlotte doesn't. This was not a description of the 1950s.

[Charlotte_native]

In regards to community pride, I would say that if a community feels that it's worth is judged based on the performance of a NBA team then there is something very wrong with that community.

I don't believe anyone thinks their civic pride is the same thing as the worth of the city. It is a completely different concept, but if you don't like sports or other activities that create this feeling for many people, it may seem foreign. it also isn't intended to say this happens for everyone in the city -- some like great shopping, some like great parks, some like sports, some like to cruise around on the lakes, and others like something else. The beauty of a large city is many things can be covered for many different people.

The civic pride that one refers to regarding sports isn't that my city is better than yours, but a fan has something to root for, follow, watch, and have fun doing. Just another human activity. And you can do it with friends, family, co-workers, neighbors. The social aspect of the games, tailgating, and everything else brings people together (or gives them something to rib fans of the other team about -- even friends). I took my mom to the Carolina / WVU game for Christmas -- she went to Carolina and hasn't been to a football game of theirs in over 20 years. She glowed the whole time and can't quit talking about it. She even create a facebook page just to post her pictures from it. I can't think of anything else, that weekend, I could have done that would have been that much fun for her. She insists that we now have a Mieneke Bowl Game holiday tradition every year, regardless of the teams.

I remember the year that the Panthers went to the Super Bowl. After every bowl game we won the streets uptown were packed with cars beeping their horns, waving flags, etc -- and I'm not talking about Saturday night traffic, it took 30 minutes or more to get from one end of Tryon to the next and the side streets were just as congested and this went on until 1 or 2 in the morning. Even the firetrucks were riding up and down the streets (I know, wasting tax money) doing the same. The sidewalks were packed. It was extremely fun for those that like and follow the team. What other civic event spurs that kind of spontaneous outpouring?

[Eastman]

While no urban paradise, there were a few independent businesses removed from where the stadium is now. One friend of the family ran a theater supply business, who, ironically had been relocated from "Theater Row" on Church Street due to other progressive plans. (I believe his old location was where the vacant lot beside Latta Arcade is now.) He was forced to close down his new location after his land was sold for the stadium.

There was also a thriving service station at the corner of Morehead and Mint I used to sell parts to.

Well I would hate to tear down a thriving gas station for a 72,000 seat stadium. And an old county jail, along with a closed down hospital. My bad, we should have put it out near Huntersville on 77. We could tailgate at one of the craptacular strip shopping centers up there.

[nowensone]

The destruction of buildings sucks, though in the case of the Panthers stadium, I think credit is yet due for it's impact on western downtown, but will still happen. One could even argue that Wachovia and Novare wouldn't have chosen to go to that part of downtown if it weren't for the stadium being there. Give it time, more will come and then we can look back and say it was a good decision.

Placing the stadium near the SC state line would simply be another drain from downtown, just like the burbs and their strip malls are, which you are notably against Monsoon. And it can't be denied that the stadium and arena bring dollars to downtown retail and service businesses, making them more likely to locate there, and thereby building a better central core. With the Vue and Novare yet to be occupied, there are going to be more residents here in the future, we simply have to wait a bit longer.

[monsoon]

^Oh I wasn't arguing for any particular placement of the Panthers stadium. As privately owned stadiums go, its one of the better ones in terms of asking for public money. I only used it as a glaring example right in this city that these kind of places do not spur any kind of symbiotic development around them. If anything they hold an area back. It's been 20 years of stunning growth in this metro yet the area around this place is almost as barren as the moon. This is 100% opposite of all the claims and predictions made for it. In hindsight, if that stadium had been placed out in a suburban locale, it most likely would have meant much better development in that part of downtown today.

I do realize this topic is about placement and as this example proves and the same can be said for the Bobcats Arena and Memorial Stadium, these places should not be placed right in the middle of an urban environment where one hopes to build a nice urban environment. They are incompatible with that.

[uptownliving]

If anything they hold an area back. It's been 20 years of stunning growth in this metro yet the area around this place is almost as barren as the moon. This is 100% opposite of all the claims and predictions made for it. In hindsight, if that stadium had been placed out in a suburban locale, it most likely would have meant much better development in that part of downtown today.

I doubt it...this area is off in a corner of downtown hemmed in by 277, the railroad tracks, and Duke Energy. I suspect that it would have been pretty much the same as it was 12 years ago if the stadium had not been built...vacant lots, surface parking and some vacant buildings.

Come downtown on gameday and you will see a lot of businesses that are open on Sunday that are normally closed. That economic activity they talked about was created...it just didnt happen right next to the stadium...it happened over at Hartigans on Cedar and Latta Arcade on Church...places that are normally closed on Sunday...but open on Gameday.

[New Name]

I do realize this topic is about placement and as this example proves and the same can be said for the Bobcats Arena and Memorial Stadium, these places should not be placed right in the middle of an urban environment where one hopes to build a nice urban environment. They are incompatible with that.

I think the issue is what everyone's opinion of a "successful" development is: If it is possible to compare pedestrian usage of any city block 2009 against 1978, and then adjust for population and demographic shifts, you might find that 70,000 people times 20 events a year (140,000) is a higher number than was recorded in 1978 (numbers adjusted). But I don't think that's possible. So everyone has a different opinion about what "success" is.

And "incompatible" is too broad of a generalization. Anything can be achieved with enough money and public input. If we can wrap townhomes and condos around a Lowes Store, why not an arena?

[Andyc545]

In hindsight, if that stadium had been placed out in a suburban locale, it most likely would have meant much better development in that part of downtown today.

Edit: Whoops I misread your quote and thought you said it would create better development in a suburban part of town.

Sticking to the quote though, certainly it would be developed differently as the stadium cuts off the street grid in 2 ways, however it is still not an ideal locale to develop due to the train tracks and 277. My guess is that this area would have sat longer and been used as a homeless camp. I'd take the stadium over that. My guess is there is little fear for people to be located near a stadium. Look at all of the development in the Warehouse District. There views are almost engulfed with the stadium in the foreground. People like the stadium.

[Windsurfer]

Well I would hate to tear down a thriving gas station for a 72,000 seat stadium. And an old county jail, along with a closed down hospital. My bad, we should have put it out near Huntersville on 77. We could tailgate at one of the craptacular strip shopping centers up there.

Not merely the gas station. What I was trying to convey, and was apparently unsuccessful, was the irony of our family friend (the theator wholesaler) who had been displaced once already in the name of progress (of which you can see the results in the form of a vacant lot beside Latta Arcade) only to be displaced soon afterwards for yet more progress. There were other businesses in the same couple of blocks...Carolina Houdaille is another one that comes to mind. Was he compensated....sure, but he died soon afterwards.

By the way, I've always been for downtown stadiums. I always thought it was a mistake in the first place to build the Hornet's arena on Tyvola. I can't stand urban sprawl either, but what I'm saying is there are enough vacant lots to use before we run small guys out. I always thought it was a real shame to lose the old buildings on East Trade to the Bobcat's arena, when, at the same time the city was trying to unload the old convention center site (now Epi)

[Charlotte_native]

I only used it as a glaring example right in this city that these kind of places do not spur any kind of symbiotic development around them. If anything they hold an area back. It's been 20 years of stunning growth in this metro yet the area around this place is almost as barren as the moon. This is 100% opposite of all the claims and predictions made for it.

The same can be said for large swaths of 1st Ward and 2nd Ward. Private owners, municipal buildings, parks, etc, can all be reasons that portions of center city haven't been developed. Would any of us honestly expect that the entire uptown area within 277 would have been developed and built all at once? The stunning development has been scattered across that whole area including near the stadium. Novare, Residence Inn -- both built next to it and since it's construction. I don't recall how big the promises were to immediate development in the shadows of the stadium, but there is development around it. I can't wait to become a new patron at the Picasso's going in the Novare project right across the street.

And speaking of the stadium -- can't wait till Saturday -- weather permitting many more than 70,000 people will be tailgating and celebrating all across this area -- stretching from Mint Street inside Wilmore, through uptown all the way to Gateway. Why more than 70K? Because quite a few people go uptown to tailgate on game days then head to the restaurants and sports bars during the game -- just to be part of the atmosphere and enjoy the energy. GO PANTHERS! (and if we win and the Giants lose this weekend, we'll get another home game -- bring on the fun, the business, and the revenue!).

[monsoon]

.... Would any of us honestly expect that the entire uptown area within 277 would have been developed and built all at once? ...

Is this some sort of red herring argument as it makes no sense. I said 20 years. I didn't say 2 weeks. Maybe you didn't realize the city has been developed for close to 200 years.

This was downtown just 40 years ago. Look at what has been lost by such follies as building professional sports arenas and vanity skyscrapers. Despite the building of billions of dollars of projects in downtown, the population has only grown by 3000 people in 18 years. In that late 60s photo Charlotte was a place where day to day living could take place. It was full of shopping, resturants, theatres, mundane places such as laundry mats, cafeterias, auto repair. It had Belk, Iveys, and a 5 story Sears store. It was full of people.

[Charlotte_native]

^ Many would argue that it has again become a place for day to day living and many live there, day to day. It is simple enough to agree to disagree. You don't like what downtown is now, others including me do. The great part about the city is you don't have to live there and we can and we can all be happy. I wouldn't like where you live, but I don't trash it because it is just my opinion, no more or less valuable than yours.

Once again -- GO PANTHERS! Can't wait to tailgate downtown this weekend because I feel our stadium is well placed in its urban environment .

[Hardcore_Hokie]

^ Many would argue that it has again become a place for day to day living and many live there, day to day. It is simple enough to agree to disagree. You don't like what downtown is now, others including me do. The great part about the city is you don't have to live there and we can and we can all be happy. I wouldn't like where you live, but I don't trash it because it is just my opinion, no more or less valuable than yours.

As a new resident of Charlotte, I for one can say that I love the direction that development in the Center City has gone. I wouldn't have chosen Charlotte as my new home, had many of the projects discussed here on UP not taken place. The downtown arenas, the new Light Rail system, the new high-rises left and right, the vacant lots turning into new luxury condos, etc. To me, it's exciting and really sets Charlotte apart from all other East Coast cities. And obviously I'm not the only one, as Charlotte continues to attract tens of thousands of new residents every year. I'm originally from the D.C. area and having sports stadiums downtown was one of the Top-10 things I loved about the city. Gamedays at BofA are ten times more exciting outside the stadium than they are at the "parking lot in the middle of nowhere" also known as FedEx Field. The pregame and postgame atmosphere of a downtown stadium/arena are unbeatable, IMO.

As mentioned by a previous poster, there are thousands of cities in this country that are happy with what they've got, and are fine with maintaining the status quo. But Charlotte seems to have ridiculous amounts of potential, and year after year we appear to be getting closer to that potential. I, for one, love the direction. Although I do understand how some of the long-timers maybe don't as much...

[staffer]

when (and if) the Northeast line is completed, it will immediately double the carrying capacity from downtown, since with the same headways there will be a train going south and one going Northeast at each interval.

[uptownliving]

Interesting choice of a picture since it doesn't include either the Arena or Stadium sites in the frame. Isnt this a thread about Sports Complexs?

[boilerdown]

Is it just me or is our current downtown way more cooler than this?

[nonillogical]

Is it just me or is our current downtown way more cooler than this?

well i do wish we had more of those tight shoulder-to-shoulder storefronts mixed in, and yeah, i didn't realize there used to be so many. i actually can't recognize anything in that picture though i THINK i know which streets i'm looking at.

[Spartan]

Is it just me or is our current downtown way more cooler than this?

Its just you. Do you not see all the shops lining Trade Street and Tryon Street? From the looks of it, even 5th St had some shops (I'm sure others did to). If we still had that, Uptown would be 1000x better. You cannot duplicate that style of building anymore, or its impacts on the urban environment.

[fortyniner]

I was in favor of a downtown arena when the now-demolished coliseum was buit on Tyvola. As it turned out, I'm glad that one wasn't built downtown (or uptown). It was one of the last of its kind, with no skyboxes and had it been built uptown, it would have been difficult to persuade the city to find another piece of real estate for another coliseum. I know the current arena (which I like on the inside, not so much the exterior) has less seating. Had someone more basketball savy been awarded our second NBA franchise, I believe the place would be (and would have been from Day 1) packed to the rafters and we would be discussing our short-sightedness in building a smaller arena.

More on topic, the current arena location seems ideal. Just look at CIAA attendees and their comments.

As far as Panthers/Ericson/BofA Stadium, it is a source of pride, and the dead zone there would have been about as dead without the stadium.

I think the minor league proposed stadium site is bad, and will create its own dead zone. Just too close in for a baseball venue. My biggest gripe is that it can't be expanded, so at best, I'm ambivilent as to whether this gets built (at this location).

Overstreet Mall (and the failed City Fair) have done more to hurt street level retail than any of the sports venues uptown.

I miss the 3 department stores, the Liggett's Drugs at the Square, the TWO STORY Sears further up North Tryon, the S&W cafeteria, Tanners, the Carolina and Imperial Theaters, and a few others, including Montaldo's.

What I don't miss are the big crowds lined up against the buildings at the Square waiting for a bus or a transfer. Also the XXX Charlotte Theater near the Square on West Trade, the lack of any public space downtown, the narrower sidewalks, the lack of any "real" restaurants (we're still working on that one I guess. I'm probably longing for an all night diner here), the real slum that was Brooklyn. I know that was home to many, but it was not a pretty sight, and likely dozens of lives were saved by raising it.

I really hope Brevard can be developed with some nice retail, and more as the denser core grows out, and the revamping of Founder's Hall should help retail in the city.

Sports venues haven't killed retail. Public and private planners did that. The Arena missed the boat when their street front retail was built so blandly, so small, and without venting. That's why Matt's backed out of that site, as I recall.