Tall House Site

[OneSweetWorld]

About the only part that I'm in favor of is the skywalk. DeVos Place needs more Hotel rooms for conventions.

~John

What does a skywalk connecting this hotel to VAA have to do with the Devos Place?

[GR2010]

What does a skywalk connecting this hotel to VAA have to do with the Devos Place?

You can then market it as being connected by the skywalk to the convention center even though it would be a twenty minute walk.

[Quercus]

I hate the skywalks. They isolate people--especially visitors--and don't encourage interaction with local businesses or attractions.

[GRDadof3]

You can then market it as being connected by the skywalk to the convention center even though it would be a twenty minute walk.

I can't imagine how you would go from this skywalk, through the arena and on to the other skywalk system.

[mgreven]

About the only part that I'm in favor of is the skywalk. DeVos Place needs more Hotel rooms for conventions.

~John

I know the skywalk will go to the VAA, but will people be able to walk through to the rest of the skywalk? I know many here are opposed to skywalks of any kind, but I think they're important. As my profession's big conference is in Chicago in December, I've walked through plenty of underground parking garages to get from hotel to convention hotel just to escape the cold. I love walking the streets more than anything, but in freezing cold or rain, I would much rather be inside for as long as possible. People get to see a lot more of our city in skywalks that if they were underground like many cities. Plus, even though the hotel is next to the arena, it's not next to an entrance. That would be a pretty great place to stay if you're going to a concert or a game. No coat needed, just walk on in.

[John E]

I know the skywalk will go to the VAA, but will people be able to walk through to the rest of the skywalk? I know many here are opposed to skywalks of any kind, but I think they're important. As my profession's big conference is in Chicago in December, I've walked through plenty of underground parking garages to get from hotel to convention hotel just to escape the cold. I love walking the streets more than anything, but in freezing cold or rain, I would much rather be inside for as long as possible. People get to see a lot more of our city in skywalks that if they were underground like many cities. Plus, even though the hotel is next to the arena, it's not next to an entrance. That would be a pretty great place to stay if you're going to a concert or a game. No coat needed, just walk on in.

Very well said. I would think that it would connect with the rest of the skywalks. But even if it doesn't it sure would be nice to be able to walk into the arena like you said.

~John

[GRDadof3]

Assuming you'll be able to go out the back of the hotel, is it really that much to walk 500' to go from there to the arena entrance? And how would they possibly connect the two skywalk systems inside the arena, while not allowing people access to the arena for security reasons (especially during off event hours), without huge expense on the part of the arena?

I think it was just drawn in as an idea. Considering that the developers aren't local, they probably just asked if it was possible.

[Yankee Fan]

Is there possibly an enclose ramp behind the building. It looks like there is a parking entrance near the Bank of Holland side. I guess as with anything, it depends on the materials. Doesn't $10 million seem somewhat inexpensive for a 9 story building?

I like the scale, and the idea of a hotel on Ionia. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.

Joe

So from Chris Knape it appears that they are looking to spend $22 million instead of $10 million. That makes more sense.

[GRDadof3]

So from Chris Knape it appears that they are looking to spend $22 million instead of $10 million. That makes more sense.

Sounds like they hope to start in June, if they can get the tax credits and financing in place.

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/business/inde...bria_suite.html

[wingbert]

I hate the skywalks. They isolate people--especially visitors--and don't encourage interaction with local businesses or attractions.

As I walked outside in single digit windchill, jumping over slush and puddles, trying to avoid being splashed by cars, trucks and busses I got to thinking that perhaps in a city where winter is almost twice as long as summer skywalks aren't so bad after all...

[MuskeMI]

All of my convention experience is from other cities, so I don't know how DVP does it, but it is a HUGE plus for a attendee to be able to walk from hotel --> convention center in a climate controlled way and not have to bring a coat, hat, gloves, etc. that would then need to be checked (if possible) or lugged around for 8-12 hours.

[metrogrkid]

I hate the skywalks. They isolate people--especially visitors--and don't encourage interaction with local businesses or attractions.

That may be your preference but for cities like GR and Minneapolis that actually have viable downtowns with convention business in arcticesque winter months, skywalks are indispensible and give us a HUGE leg up on other "arctic zone" American cities that we compete with.

. . . . I know many here are opposed to skywalks of any kind, but I think they're important. As my profession's big conference is in Chicago in December, I've walked through plenty of underground parking garages to get from hotel to convention hotel just to escape the cold. I love walking the streets more than anything, but in freezing cold or rain, I would much rather be inside for as long as possible. People get to see a lot more of our city in skywalks that if they were underground like many cities. Plus, even though the hotel is next to the arena, it's not next to an entrance. That would be a pretty great place to stay if you're going to a concert or a game. No coat needed, just walk on in.

As I walked outside in single digit windchill, jumping over slush and puddles, trying to avoid being splashed by cars, trucks and busses I got to thinking that perhaps in a city where winter is almost twice as long as summer skywalks aren't so bad after all...

mgreven and wingbert - KUDOS to the GR-Forum folks like you that get it!! Please run for seats on the Planning Commission. It is like former Mayor John Logie used to always say, ". . . . it is far too easy and far too detrimental to always work on the reactive premise of NO. For Grand Rapids to flourish, we must work on the proactive premise of getting all involved in downtown - from visitors to developers to residents - to get to YES."

Mayor Logie - along with soon-to-be retiring City Manager Kurt Kimball - had this profound understanding that there are other cities that, for the time being, are far more attractive and better situated to attract visitors, developers and residents. That being the case and with both of them craving a GR that was solidly world-class in every way, they both believed that it was in GR's best interest to scrap the negative reactivism of NO / CAN'T BE DONE / ISN'T RIGHT FOR / SHOULDN'T BE DONE and replace it with a proactive stance of finding innovative ways to foster compromise and to make people say YES to downtown.

If skywalks make people more likely to utilize downtown when its freezing or monsoon raining, find a way to make them interrelate with and complement surface level foot traffic. If mass transit stations enhance existing venues and spur the development of new ones, find a way for it to interrelate with the access points for interchanging with skywalk- and street-level pedestrian movement as well. Such thinking replicates itself in positive and unexpected ways that have gotten us to the emergingly world-class downtown GR of NOW and will take us to the downtown GR that is the preferred, interconnected, convenient and definitively world-class downtown of Michigan's future (i.e. - a downtown designed to negate the maximum "NO" excuses to engaging it and to maximize any excuse to participate in it).

'nuf said.

[tamias6]

I can understand the complaints on what Skywalks do to the urban fabric. If Grand Rapids were in a warmer climate then I would say get rid of the Skywalks. But this is Michigan, home to some really nasty winters and fowl weather. So I would rather get to the VAA or Devos Place via a nice warm climate controlled skywalks than on the street freezing, slipping on ice, and/or slush splashed by a passing car. All three happened to me and I can tell you that its not pleasant.

[Coleco]

I can understand the complaints on what Skywalks do to the urban fabric. If Grand Rapids were in a warmer climate then I would say get rid of the Skywalks. But this is Michigan, home to some really nasty winters and fowl weather. So I would rather get to the VAA or Devos Place via a nice warm climate controlled skywalks than on the street freezing, slipping on ice, and/or slush splashed by a passing car. All three happened to me and I can tell you that its not pleasant.

A little off topic, I know, but The Replacements had a great ode to the Minneapolis skyway system, so at least they bring about some good music:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pEs8PMevMk

[mgreven]

Another skywalk plus that we do:

Take your very active toddler boys to the Skywalk on a Sunday afternoon. A great place to get that needed child exercise when it's too cold to walk in the park and you don't want to fight the mall.

[GRDadof3]

I haven't used the skywalks in about 5 years (other than the one from Spectrum's parking ramp to the hospital), so I have no point of reference to how they might be better than walking outside in the winter.

It is indisputable though, that they take pedestrians off of the street and reduce activity on the sidewalks. The question is can Grand Rapids live without them. I've been to conferences in a lot of cold places (Chicago, Minneapolis, Ft Wayne, Detroit). I walked outside at all of them. Are there skywalks prevalent in Boston? They have much the same climate. What about Beijing? I've never been, but they have some harsh winters.

In the case of this hotel, I don't really see anything stopping them from connecting to the VAA by skywalk (and they'll use it as a selling tool on the expedia description). But they most likely won't be hooking up with the full skywalk system. Unless they suspend the skywalk through the arena out over the ice.

[ironyisadeadscene]

i only use the skywalk when its cold like it is now, or when im grabbing lunch from the skyway deli (which i love, by the way)

[Veloise]

A couple points of clarification:

... Please run for seats on the Planning Commission.

Those are appointed positions.

...soon-to-be retiring City Manager Kurt Kimball...

Our K2 was done Dec 31.

HTH

[John E]

I heard that Orion is doing the construction.

~John

[GRDadof3]

I heard that Orion is doing the construction.

~John

Rockford Construction. I was at the DDA Meeting this morning and the developer sounds like he's got a pretty solid plan to start building this Summer, if he can get all the tax breaks and development agreements in place. Work would take 16 months from ground-breaking. They've got approval from Cambria to start. It was funny too, because there were reps there from the law firms involved, the current lot owner, the developers, Grubb & Ellis, architect, and Rockford Construction. When their agenda item was finished, 2/3's of the room cleared out.

I stayed to hear about the Kendall Building.

[GR Pyro]

I appreciate that there is still some forward progress downtown during this bleak spot in our economy.... but I do think that a choice affiliated property is the wrong fit.

Still hopefull for the WAM site...

[wingbert]

I stayed to hear about the Kendall Building.

and.........

[ironyisadeadscene]

i think depending on the type of hotel, ect. that this is a no-brainer. rather then busing in opposing teams to and from van andel from their hotel, they can just walk from the hotel next to the arena, and thus, the hotel will always have some occupancy right there. should the AHL choose to go that rout.

[francishsu]

It is indisputable though, that they take pedestrians off of the street and reduce activity on the sidewalks. The question is can Grand Rapids live without them. I've been to conferences in a lot of cold places (Chicago, Minneapolis, Ft Wayne, Detroit). I walked outside at all of them. Are there skywalks prevalent in Boston?

From what I can recall when I lived in the Boston area, I only remember one skywalk connecting the Prudential Center with Copley Place. Both of them contain a mix of indoor shopping/dining, office and hotels. For this Boston example, I think the skywalk makes sense due large amount of foot traffic and the complementary nature of the two locations (upscale retail at Copley vs. the more mainstream retail at the Prudential). I tend to see them as one premier destination, partly due to the skywalk connecting them. I don't know of any other skywalks in Boston, although I wouldn't be surprised if there were some other examples with a city of its size.

I think I remember one in Toronto that connects the CN Tower with a big mass transit station.

One connecting a hotel with Van Andel seems like it would benefit only people staying in the hotel, so it's small potatoes compared to the Boston and Toronto examples.

[GRDadof3]

and.........

The DDA Board gave it a lot of support, though they didn't specifically vote on approving anything today (for next month's meeting).