Woodruff Road

[GvilleSC]

I'm not sure how long it will take for the realization that changes are needed in terms of transportation for this corridor, either... It's clearly not simply widening the road, that's for sure! And, we all know how long it will take for a study to be produced, plans to be made, the time to sell this to the public, and construction time (as well as finding a funding source...). Though, it will probably take years of horrific shopping seasons, more development, the worsening of air quality below the federal standard, and a council person to be involved in a wreck or extremely late for an important meeting (or not so important) for something to change. It'd be nice if they'd get on top of things now...

[btoy]

The City did a study already. Maybe funding can come from the stimulus.

[GvilleSC]

The City did a study already. Maybe funding can come from the stimulus.

[gman430]

What did they find? To my knowledge, nothing more than 'better connectivity' has been thrown around as a solution. I think we can all agree that that won't be a sustainable solution.

[gman430]

-The Shops at Greenridge FAILS at traffic flow. Are we suppose to think that it's possible for the City to require the developer to demolish some buildings and redesign the site plan, or at the very least, redesign the interior traffic flow that would require excessive money, to allow for better flow? Otherwise, nothing will change.

Am I missing something here? With Woodruff Rd so heavily developed, is it realistic to expect drastic changes without the property owners planning changes and the City THEN being able to enforce any adopted guidelines?

[breed]

I think the best way to clear up traffic issues on Woodruff Road is add an arterial road that will take the load off. Unfortunately, doing this would be very expensive.

The good news is that Woodruff Road has probably done more to foster positive political sentiment for planning than any other thing in the region. Many a planning debate begins and ends with...

"Woodruff Road equals no planning. Do you want Woodruff Road?"

[gs3]

The good news is that Woodruff Road has probably done more to foster positive political sentiment for planning than any other thing in the region. Many a planning debate begins and ends with...

"Woodruff Road equals no planning. Do you want Woodruff Road?"

[btoy]

What did they find? To my knowledge, nothing more than 'better connectivity' has been thrown around as a solution. I think we can all agree that that won't be a sustainable solution.

Edit: I just looked up the study. I believe, that the proposed solutions aren't going to solve the problems. Maybe someone can help me out here...

They push for:

-parking sharing,

-controlled access onto and off of Woodruff,

-land use regulations

While these are great, I see them as a key element for up-and-coming corridors. Not to mention that not all of the study area is in the City. Woodruff Road is almost built-out (at least as far as the study addresses the corridor) from Roper Mountain Rd to Highway 14. So, how will the City be able to make the property owners and developers go back and implement these strategies?

-The Shops at Greenridge FAILS at traffic flow. Are we suppose to think that it's possible for the City to require the developer to demolish some buildings and redesign the site plan, or at the very least, redesign the interior traffic flow that would require excessive money, to allow for better flow? Otherwise, nothing will change.

Am I missing something here? With Woodruff Rd so heavily developed, is it realistic to expect drastic changes without the property owners planning changes and the City THEN being able to enforce any adopted guidelines?

[GvilleSC]

Alot of traffic on Woodruff Rd. is people going from center to center, if you can make that possible with out going on Woodruff Rd. then you can cut down on some of the traffic. The interconectivity, if done correct, can acomplish that. But the last thing that needs to be done is a widening. That would just make the problem worse. It has been proven time and time again that when you widen a road that just increases the traffic.

[Galley]

Alot of traffic on Woodruff Rd. is people going from center to center, if you can make that possible with out going on Woodruff Rd. then you can cut down on some of the traffic. The interconectivity, if done correct, can acomplish that. But the last thing that needs to be done is a widening. That would just make the problem worse. It has been proven time and time again that when you widen a road that just increases the traffic.

[Sonrise]

Alot of traffic on Woodruff Rd. is people going from center to center, if you can make that possible with out going on Woodruff Rd. then you can cut down on some of the traffic. The interconectivity, if done correct, can acomplish that. But the last thing that needs to be done is a widening. That would just make the problem worse. It has been proven time and time again that when you widen a road that just increases the traffic.

[gman430]

Brad, with all due respect, for the first time I'm going to have to vehemently disagree with you. Woodruff Rd. as of now is two lanes in each direction. Depending upon which reports one reads it is either the busiest or second busiest road in the entire state. The traffic is bottle necked continuously and it has often taken me literally 15-20 minutes just to get from the exit off of 85 into Greenridge. This road must be 3 lanes each way asap; that should be priority #1. The arguement about widening it will only make it busier is just plain stupid. As previously stated, it's already either the 1st or 2nd busiest in the state and the 2 lanes didn't stop MPTC nor the Point development that fell threw from building on Woodruff. Growth brings growth, regardless of lane size. The demand is already there in spades. To allow more commercial development without lane widening infrastructural improvement would be utter incompetency. Just my .02$

[Sonrise]

Actually he's right. Widening Woodruff Road would probably be the stupidest thing the DOT could do. It would make it more busier. Why wouldn't it? The reason roads that are six lanes like Wade Hampton Blvd. don't have as much traffic jams is not because it's six lanes but because there are lots of roads that go off of it into other areas. Woodruff Road doesn't have that. To get from the Shops at Greenridge to Walmart on Woodruff Road, you have to stay on Woodruff Road. There's no other roads you can use and that's what causes the traffic jams. There needs to be more interconnectivity in this area. Here's a good story on this very subject: http://bicycleuniverse.info/transpo/roadbu...g-futility.html I personally like Galley's idea of the Congaree Road extension myself.

[Greenville]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. The growth is, has and will continue to occur whether Woodruff is 2 lanes or 3. I feel that you're putting forth a really short sighted pov that is really detrimental to the infrastructure of this area. People going from shopping center to shopping center probably makes up a very small percentage of travelers on Woodruff Rd. Again, I'm amazed at the shortsightenedness on this one. In the long run, that mindset is going to really hurt business on Woodruff. It will continue to get busier and people will conti ue to get more frustrated, eventually abandoning businesses all together. How can you support the widening of 385 and not Woodruff? People could take side streets, right?

[gman430]

We're gonna have to agree to disagree. The growth is, has and will continue to occur whether Woodruff is 2 lanes or 3. I feel that you're putting forth a really short sighted pov that is really detrimental to the infrastructure of this area. People going from shopping center to shopping center probably makes up a very small percentage of travelers on Woodruff Rd. Again, I'm amazed at the shortsightenedness on this one. In the long run, that mindset is going to really hurt business on Woodruff. It will continue to get busier and people will conti ue to get more frustrated, eventually abandoning businesses all together. How can you support the widening of 385 and not Woodruff? People could take side streets, right?

[pompusmaximus]

Yeah I am going to have to back Citylife on this one. Widening roads typically relieves traffic for a couple of years, but rather quickly they become congested again. The decrease in vehicle congestion makes the road look more attractive for more drivers to utilize. However, as more and more vehicles attempt to take advantage of the "open road" it soon becomes congested. This phenomenon coupled with increased development along the corridor (not to mention people trying to get to the far right lane from the far left lane) leads us back to square one. At this point people will hollar and cry out for more lanes and the process repeats itself. I am not against widening roads, but in most cases other alternatives such as improved street hierarchy and connectivity will do more in the long run than simply adding more lanes. Widening roads is a quick, easy, visible "fix" that people can easily tout, but more often than not, it simply prolongs the inevitable.

I always like to use the fatman example. If your a fatass, would it be better for you to constantly buy a longer belt as your waist line expands or would it be wiser to just lose the weight?

[breed]

I always like to use the fatman example. If your a fatass, would it be better for you to constantly buy a longer belt as your waist line expands or would it be wiser to just lose the weight?

[Sonrise]

Yeah I am going to have to back Citylife on this one. Widening roads typically relieves traffic for a couple of years, but rather quickly they become congested again. The decrease in vehicle congestion makes the road look more attractive for more drivers to utilize. However, as more and more vehicles attempt to take advantage of the "open road" it soon becomes congested. This phenomenon coupled with increased development along the corridor (not to mention people trying to get to the far right lane from the far left lane) leads us back to square one. At this point people will hollar and cry out for more lanes and the process repeats itself. I am not against widening roads, but in most cases other alternatives such as improved street hierarchy and connectivity will do more in the long run than simply adding more lanes. Widening roads is a quick, easy, visible "fix" that people can easily tout, but more often than not, it simply prolongs the inevitable.

I always like to use the fatman example. If your a fatass, would it be better for you to constantly buy a longer belt as your waist line expands or would it be wiser to just lose the weight?

[Greenville]

For some reason many of you guys feel that infrastructure inprovements ar evil. Light rail (as pie in the sky as it is) does not have to be mutually exclusive of lane widening.

[btoy]

I see it this way, as long as traffic is bad people are going to avoid the road taking routes that they might not other wise take. You widen it and for a bit the problem is fixed, but now people don't think it is too busy so they stop avoiding it and start using the road thus making the new widened road clogged as well. Its is at times congested now and if it is widened it will in a mater of just a few years become congested again making widening a waste of money.

Besides, I travel that road all the time and really don't think it is that bad. Is a 5-20 min. delay really worth spending so much money on? Heck no! Anyone who has lived in Charleston or Atlanta, etc. will tell you that Woodruff Rd. really isn't all that bad.

[Sonrise]

I see it this way, as long as traffic is bad people are going to avoid the road taking routes that they might not other wise take. You widen it and for a bit the problem is fixed, but now people don't think it is too busy so they stop avoiding it and start using the road thus making the new widened road clogged as well. Its is at times congested now and if it is widened it will in a mater of just a few years become congested again making widening a waste of money.

Besides, I travel that road all the time and really don't think it is that bad. Is a 5-20 min. delay really worth spending so much money on? Heck no! Anyone who has lived in Charleston or Atlanta, etc. will tell you that Woodruff Rd. really isn't all that bad.

[INFOMAN]

Well I've been a member for a minute now and have been observing your (urbanplanet) post's and I say Woodruff Road should be Widen but not for it to get punished even more...SCDOT should seriously consider taking out the median (middle lane) and replace it with some type of Mass Transit (for all I care we can put down a street car), now the process could effect area's surrounding Woodruff Road (what I mean is more traffic could possibly hit other road's, subtracting traffic from Woodruff Road but that could make Woodruff Road into another Lauren's Road [Which We DO NOT WANT]) so SCDOT may need billion's to correct that area (I-85, I-385, Woodruff Road, HOV lane exit's for Woodruff Road, possibly building another I-85 or I-385 exit, I believe they should make Old Sulphur Spring's Road a possible exit due to Verdae, MAULDIN, Carolina First, CU-ICAR, Millennium Campus, and way more than that, but Widening would have to occur to the road)...SCDOT, Greenville County, and Greenville City should kick off a plan for that area called "I-85 Corridor Urban Study" because we cant keep allowing more suburbanzation along that area and want it to stay in it's current condition...Well that concludes my first post!!! I know a lot of people hate me from SSC but believe me I'm not going to be up here a lot!!!!!!!!!!

[benjamesriddle]

Welcome? haha

[Spartan]

Yeah I am going to have to back Citylife on this one. Widening roads typically relieves traffic for a couple of years, but rather quickly they become congested again. The decrease in vehicle congestion makes the road look more attractive for more drivers to utilize. However, as more and more vehicles attempt to take advantage of the "open road" it soon becomes congested. This phenomenon coupled with increased development along the corridor (not to mention people trying to get to the far right lane from the far left lane) leads us back to square one. At this point people will hollar and cry out for more lanes and the process repeats itself. I am not against widening roads, but in most cases other alternatives such as improved street hierarchy and connectivity will do more in the long run than simply adding more lanes. Widening roads is a quick, easy, visible "fix" that people can easily tout, but more often than not, it simply prolongs the inevitable.

I always like to use the fatman example. If your a fatass, would it be better for you to constantly buy a longer belt as your waist line expands or would it be wiser to just lose the weight?

[btoy]

Since the Study that the City of Greenville funded has been mentioned in this thread and maybe not everybody has seen it yet I thought it would be a good idea to post the link.

Woodruff Rd. Corridor Study

It does provide some good ideas.